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Superman32

Would you mention that you are a skydiver?

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NO........Hell no.

People do not see skydivers as paying attention to detail, they see them as dangerous, drug using, wild, unreliable, thrill seekers.



How do you think the IT industry views most network security/sys admin types?

no, seriously.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

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If you had a really important interview, for a great new job/parternship, or a postgrad professional school, or whatever, would you mention that you are a skydiver?

I'm debating, because it can be seen as positive or negative thing.

Negative perceptions: You're crazy, have a death wish, immature, may die or become incapacitated and therefore not worth the investiment, etc

Positive perceptions: Meticulous, pays attention to detail, energetic, etc

P.S. What are your hobbies or what you do for fun is a possible question and likely to be asked.



You forgot to mention under postives "intense underlying sense of optimism".

I havent jumped in 4 years, and only for 4 years but my first aff jump was, well....you know- all the verbage about facing one's fears and whatnot.

I dont know anyone that is successful in any industry or sport that doesnt have some sort of risk taking trait in them whetjer it be Yvonne Chouinard from Patagonia, the Pope, Dr Ruth, Donald Trump, SHANE MCSHLONKEY, George Bush (not that I agree with anything he has done but successful nonetheless), etc.

If some potential employer doesnt want to hire a potential employee who is known to take calculated risks I sure as hell wouldnt be too confident working there under that type of management attitude.

In my own soapboxed opinion, the only people that think skydivers are "crazy" are those that dont take any risks (fit the derogataoty whuffo stereotype) and we all know how far those people go.

The Chose One has spoken

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How do you think the IT industry views most network security/sys admin types?



As a dime a dozen?:P

Simple fact is that many employers will not get excited about hiring a guy that they think could get killed any weekend.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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I dont know anyone that is successful in any industry or sport that doesnt have some sort of risk taking trait in them whetjer it be Yvonne Chouinard from Patagonia, the Pope, Dr Ruth, Donald Trump, SHANE MCSHLONKEY, George Bush



Ah yes, but they are not reckless and skydivers are often seen as reckless. Even when someone does a jump it is seen as a one time stunt.

That kind of risk taking is different than being a skydiver in many peoples eyes.

Doing a tandem is about facing fear being a skydiver is seen as reckless.

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In my own soapboxed opinion, the only people that think skydivers are "crazy" are those that dont take any risks (fit the derogataoty whuffo stereotype) and we all know how far those people go.



Does not matter your opinion on how far they go. If they are interviewing you and they think you are reckless, your interview might as well be over.

Hey, if you are interviewing with the CEO of Virgin Atlantic...Great, but most interviews will look at you as the people in the bar you are trying to impress...As a reckless dare devil...Not what you want in an interview.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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im having some trouble at my current job due to me skydiving..

i work on wall street..at one of the top brokerages in the world..

im trying to get some time off to go on a skydiving based vacation and my boss is not with it and does not want me to skydive...she says tat i did it..i learned it...and thats it..move on

she dont want any of her top employeees jumping out of planes and is very very upset with me at work lately...

and you peope dont know this woman..she can be the nicest person in the world but cross her and shes a beast that will forever be on your back..relentlessly toying with your career..

she is a woman with alot of money and ALOT of power.and just wants me to stop jumping and focus on my job...

as of right now she isnt happy with me..i told her i learned alot of disipline and focus in the short time that ive been in the sport and i relate that to my work and i tried every angle wth her but according to her its "immature"

trying to find a way to deal with this...

my advice is just keep it to yourself...
--------------------------------------------
www.facebook.com/agentlead

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I spun it into my interview. I was asked questions about it that included questions like gives examples of how I have used my skydiving experiences to my benefit at work. The feed back that I got was that the interviewer was particularly impressed about how I tied work and skydiving together.

In my experience how you get percieved is based on how well you present your views. If you can get creative and present yourself in a mature manner, you'll look good. If you take the "yeah! dude! ... it's like awesome! shit!" route, you are out.

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In my experience how you get percieved is based on how well you present your views



I used skydiving to get my current job. The new job is as an Instructor at a large company, a highly sought after position. I used the fact I was a skydiving Instructor for the last 12 years as a strong point.

However, me being a skydiver was already known since it was with my current company and the interviewer and I had already talked about me being a skydiver before this job was available.

In most cases, I would not risk the posibility of projecting the wrong image.

My situation worked out OK, but he did in fact tell me that it was only the instructing side that helped and that he still thought it was crazy and reckless.

I think in most cases its not seen as a positive, and there are plenty of horror stories about people who were good employees until the boss found out they jumped.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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This thread has made me think about my approach. I've decided that in future I will mention my skydiving it it's relevant in an interview.

If the interviewer takes it badly and decides not to hire me, that's great! It means I'm not going to end up working in a company with an incompatible culture.

Saves time and heartache for both me and my prospective employer.

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Sometimes any additional qualifications or achievements one might have in skydiving can be spun in a much more positive way than just being a weirdo skydiver.

For example, instructor ratings, a rigger rating, or success at competition.

A specific achievement sounds better than general skills, as the acheivement is better condensed into a few words on a resume.
(E.g., it's hard to explain how ones good qualities resulted in great sport skills given X number of jumps. It's easier to say that one competed in the Open category at the National Championships, whether or not that really meant much.)

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I'm an aerospace engineering major at the University of Florida. On my resume, under leadership, I put that I am currently the president of the Falling Gators Skydiving Club. Every single one of my interviewers mentioned it during the first 2 minutes. They always thought it was outstanding and it led to a great conversation. Many of them had either made a jump or were interested. It may help that I was interviewing for an aero eng. position, since the fields are a bit related. I was often asked what type of jump planes I used.

I say use it for sure. It shows that you're a dynamic individual with varied interests and excellent decision making capability. Besides, you should always be proud of being a skydiver.

Jared Lee
Cohete Rodriguez / Team Dirty Sanchez #74
Former President, UF Falling Gators

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Positive perceptions: Meticulous, pays attention to detail, energetic, etc



Only other skydivers would have that perception. Most people would probably think risk taker, irresponsible. It's up to you to try to change that.

If they asked about what I like to do outside work, I would tell them. I've only had one interview where I was asked that.
Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

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This thread has been mostly positive, so thank you Ron and others for the other side, please keep it coming.

i just heard that my interviewer is not very well liked in the company and loves to ask lots of questions. Not quite sure what that's going to mean.
I'm still leaning towards telling them because of the many similar characteristics but I think it will depend on feel.
Inveniam Viam aut Faciam
I'm back biatches!

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On my resume, under leadership, I put that I am currently the president of the Falling Gators Skydiving Club.



Being Prez is different than being a jumper.

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Every single one of my interviewers mentioned it during the first 2 minutes. They always thought it was outstanding and it led to a great conversation.



Did it lead to jobs?
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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On my resume, under leadership, I put that I am currently the president of the Falling Gators Skydiving Club.



Being Prez is different than being a jumper.

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Every single one of my interviewers mentioned it during the first 2 minutes. They always thought it was outstanding and it led to a great conversation.



Did it lead to jobs?




No jobs, but I think that has more to do with my lack of experience in the field (I'm only a sophomore) than my jumping. During an interview with General Electric, the interviewer commented that he particularly liked my involvement in skydiving and how relaxed I obviously was under high pressure, decision intensive environments.

And your right, being Prez is different than just being a jumper. If I weren't Prez, I could jump more and not have to deal with Student Government whuffos. ;)

Jared Lee
Cohete Rodriguez / Team Dirty Sanchez #74
Former President, UF Falling Gators

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1.st. Only a dime a dozen if you're average.

2.nd. I wouldnt work for a company that had a culture that wouldnt accept that sort of thing - I get far more comments about the professional wrestling than I ever do about skydiving (because I get injured far more frequently due to it).

With that out of the way, here's the benefits -

All spot bonuses are paid in jump tickets - I paid for 3 of the 25 jumps I got in this year. I am that damn good (at my job). B|

Flexible hours - Fridays off and "working at the wireless enabled DZ" passes for those perfect weather days.

So overall I cant think of a negative...but like I said, I'm in a pretty unique position as far as my career goes.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

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NO........Hell no.

People do not see skydivers as paying attention to detail, they see them as dangerous, drug using, wild, unreliable, thrill seekers.


!!! Wow, that runs completely opposite to the circles I run in (high tech, non-skydiving industry). Sure, I've had the universal reaction "that's just crazy", but I'm therefore dangerous? Drug-using? Unreliable? Those are not adjectives I've ever associated with skydiving (even before I started), nor used by those with whom I associate professionally. Perhaps you have a different perspective because you lived on a DZ and saw all the worst? Those specific, terrifically negative adjectives and their siblings are outside the realm of my business contacts, family relations, and most social areas (the skydiving community itself is the biggest exception); I find the world at large very ignorant and naive of the skydiving 'lifestyle', and thus ignorant of the negatives you apply.

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Edit, so it actually depends on the job. If its a job in an office, or bank, no....


My personal experience runs somewhat counter to this. I work in an office, for a small, private firm, which ran a background check on me, and my resume prominently displays my skydiving, to the point of being literally equal with my professional employment history.

There is a place and a time and a manner in which your skydiving should be explained. It is not the same for everyone, nor for every time, nor for every occasion. If it is used boastfully (hey, I'm cool, I skydive), it will be received poorly. If it is used in the wrong context (yes sir, if you'll just sign this $10 billion contract.... Say, did I tell you about the time I almost died skydiving?), it can prove costly. But if used wisely, at the appropriate time and in an humble and sober fashion, it is can be a positive and engaging topic without invoking the worst stereotypes.

Should you mention it on your resume? How big a part of your life is it? Will it impact your job even a little? Have you made significant accomplishments or earned a living skydiving? These would be good reasons to mention it. Otherwise, there is little to be gained and much to lose, and it probably isn't at all relevant anyway.

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!!! Wow, that runs completely opposite to the circles I run in (high tech, non-skydiving industry). Sure, I've had the universal reaction "that's just crazy", but I'm therefore dangerous? Drug-using? Unreliable? Those are not adjectives I've ever associated with skydiving (even before I started), nor used by those with whom I associate professionally



YOU may not use them.

But lets look at Skydiving Movies:

The Skydivers 1963. Tag Lines "Thrill jumping guys... thrill seeking gals... daring death with every leap!"

"First feature length motion picture showing the daredevils of the sky who free fall from heights of 20,000 feet with only a ripcord between life and death!"

Gypsy Moths 1969. Tag lines from the Movie "When you turn on by falling free... when jumping is not only a way to live, but a way to die, too... you're a Gypsy Moth."

"The Gypsy Moths fall fast. They can't stop risking their lives - not even for their down-to-earth women."

Proof 1980 Short that inspired Fandango...Not exactly a glowing portrayal of Skydiving.

Point Break A bunch of adrenalin junkies rob banks to pay for surfing. They also like to jump.

DropZone 1994. "A team of skydiving crooks led by DEA-agent-turned-bad Busey specialize in landing on police roofs and breaking in so their evil computer nerd can steal undercover agents' files and sell them to drug lords. Federal Marshal Snipes lost a brother to this crew and learns skydiving with the help of tough-but-lovable instructor Butler so he can track them down"

Terminal Velocity 1994. "Ditch Brodie is a maverick skydiving instructor. One day, a beautiful girl comes in, wanting to take her first jump. Up in the air, Ditch takes his eyes off her momentarily, then looks back to find out that she has fallen out, dying on impact. Ditch is suspicious that all is not as it seems, because he distinctly remembers hooking her static line on..."

Cutaway 2000 "The successful undercover agent Victor Cooper (Stephen Baldwin) is assigned for his ninth mission: to find how the loadings of drug is being brought to Miami. He suspects that the drug is coming through the air and joins a team of sky diving, under the leadership of Red Line (Tom Berenger), a fanatic and considered the athlete number one in this sport in the world. Due to his profile of winner, Vic gets involved with the group and he "disconnects" from his position of infiltrated agent, "connecting" with the team."

And thats not including made for skydivers movies with the nudity and low pulls and such.

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Those specific, terrifically negative adjectives and their siblings are outside the realm of my business contacts, family relations, and most social areas (the skydiving community itself is the biggest exception); I find the world at large very ignorant and naive of the skydiving 'lifestyle', and thus ignorant of the negatives you apply.



The realm of YOUR business contacts, family relations, and most social areas. But you also state " You say the world at large is ignorant of the negative view of skydiving"...But show me one movie other than "Ripcord" where skydiving was put into a good light.

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But if used wisely, at the appropriate time and in an humble and sober fashion, it is can be a positive and engaging topic without invoking the worst stereotypes.



And you think that in an interview when you don't know how it will be recieved is a GOOD time to bring it up?

People respect the guy that faced his fears and did one jump. They look at the guy that does it a bunch as wierd. We even encourage that view.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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YOU may not use them.
But lets look at Skydiving Movies:


Most people don't even know about these movies, or at least have not seen them. Of those that have, how many do you think believe anything shown on the silver screen is an accurate and believable representation of real life?

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And thats not including made for skydivers movies with the nudity and low pulls and such.

And the general public certainly watches these alot.

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The realm of YOUR business contacts, family relations, and most social areas. But you also state " You say the world at large is ignorant of the negative view of skydiving"...But show me one movie other than "Ripcord" where skydiving was put into a good light.

See above. Most people have not seen any of the flicks you mention. No, I don't know everyone and every circumstance. I am relating only my experience, with a family background absent a flight history other than as a passenger, living an hour from the closest dz, and working in an industry where the predominant thrill-seeking adventure is a FPS game. Before I started skydiving, I had zero clue about skydiving culture, yet all the movies you listed were available to me. I think I even saw Dropzone, Terminal Velocity and Point Break before jumping, and never considered them as a reasonable source of information.

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But if used wisely, at the appropriate time and in an humble and sober fashion, it is can be a positive and engaging topic without invoking the worst stereotypes.



And you think that in an interview when you don't know how it will be recieved is a GOOD time to bring it up?

In my case, you betcha. I have done so. I will continue to do so. I note you did not quote me when I specifically mentioned it was not always apropos, and probably not even a good idea except in certain circumstances.

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People respect the guy that faced his fears and did one jump. They look at the guy that does it a bunch as wierd. We even encourage that view.

Wierd[sic] is quite aways from "dangerous", "drug-using" and "unreliable". No argument that the general public has zero comprehension of what we do and why we do it.

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Urm...leave your job and find a better one?

I'm sorry, I have a tough time understanding feeling trapped in a job. There's always other top firms and theres always professional ways to switch jobs.

(my view is tainted by having watched a loved one go through 2 years of harassment in the workplace while refusing to accept the fact they didnt have to stay there and that other places would readily hire them - and eventually found a perfect new job in less than a month, once they realized they could switch with no damage to their career)

When I die I hope that they talk about my life and hobbies rather than what a great employee I was.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

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It's hard to leave your comfort zone of the job you have 'today'.

But if it's not for you, why do something you aren't jazzed about. It doesn't hurt to look while working there.

Switching jobs within the org or going somewhere else isn't that hard once you decide you don't HAVE to tie your life to one business.

I mean, no one really has pensions anymore, so mobility is a way of life and good for your career and income potential.

I know a lot of recruiters and they say staying at the same company more the 7 years might actually be worse than moving every 5 years or so (in terms of being able to find new jobs).

Just make sure you find a new job BEFORE quitting this one.

EDIT: And for cripes sake, don't burn your bridges when you do leave - that's for children. Do it courteously and professionally. That woman may have a change of heart or move to another job herself and you might see a great opportunity to return in a few years.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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Most people don't even know about these movies, or at least have not seen them. Of those that have, how many do you think believe anything shown on the silver screen is an accurate and believable representation of real life?



Nice way to try and avoid the very simple fact that even we skydivers encourage a reckless image. Skydivers are billed as "Daredevels" in the media. When Bush did his first AFF it was all over the place. The general feel was that it was good for him to return back to a promise he made and face his fears. When he did his second they thought the old man had lost his mind. "Why do it again?", was often heard.

All things heard from the general public when they encounter a skydiver:
"Only idiots and birdshit fall from the sky."
"Why would you jump from a perfectly good Airplane?"
"Skydivers are just Meatbombs."
"Do you have a deathwish?"
"Are you crazy?"
"You are so Brave."

Now I have heard all of these and more. I have a Pro Rating and have done over 100 demos. I see and hear how the general public reacts to skydivers. I have been teaching for 12 years and work with students and their families. I hear how even those who come out to make a jump think of the sport. Most see it as a one time adventure and to do it every weekend is nuts.

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See above. Most people have not seen any of the flicks you mention. No, I don't know everyone and every circumstance. I am relating only my experience



So without any evidence other than personal experience, ignoring almost all evidence, you have such a strong opinion?

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In my case, you betcha. I have done so. I will continue to do so. I note you did not quote me when I specifically mentioned it was not always apropos, and probably not even a good idea except in certain circumstances.



So if you argree, why are your arguing against my advice to keep it quiet?

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Wierd[sic] is quite aways from "dangerous", "drug-using" and "unreliable".



"Wierd" can mean many different things. It can infact mean "Dangerous, Drug-using and Unreliable" depending on your view of those things.

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Wierd:
1. Of, relating to, or suggestive of the preternatural or supernatural.
2. Of a strikingly odd or unusual character; strange.
Archaic. Of or relating to fate or the Fates.



Wierd depends on the persons frame of reference. A person who's idea of a great exciting tme is watching The History Channel is going to see a guy that jumps out of airplanes for fun as a novelty, as a daredevil.

When trying to get a job, it might not be the best time to risk running into a person who feels that people who skydive for fun are a little off.

It can be used in some cases. For this job I have now it helped. But it was the Instruction aspect, not number of jumps, Averages at Nationals, or time in sport. And like I said, my boss still thinks its crazy and reckless.

A strong point I use in my field is a Pilots License. It has a much better image than skydiving.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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My last reponse on this topic. Ron, you may have the last word.

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Nice way to try and avoid the very simple fact that even we skydivers encourage a reckless image....


Pardon? 'Try and avoid'? I am not avoiding anything, and your attempts to paint it as such are ... irritating.


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Now I have heard all of these and more. I have a Pro Rating and have done over 100 demos. I see and hear how the general public reacts to skydivers. I have been teaching for 12 years and work with students and their families. I hear how even those who come out to make a jump think of the sport. Most see it as a one time adventure and to do it every weekend is nuts.

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See above. Most people have not seen any of the flicks you mention. No, I don't know everyone and every circumstance. I am relating only my experience



So without any evidence other than personal experience, ignoring almost all evidence, you have such a strong opinion?


The Great Ron has spoken? Your evidence trumps mine? Because you've been in the sport twice as long as me, I'm not as qualified? I haven't had contact with the general public, or even tandem students? Sigh. Citing movies as evidence that mentioning skydiving brings up associations that that person is dangerous, drug-using, and unreliable is specious at best. I see the same evidence as you, and come up with a different conclusion.


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In my case, you betcha. I have done so. I will continue to do so. I note you did not quote me when I specifically mentioned it was not always apropos, and probably not even a good idea except in certain circumstances.

So if you argree, why are your arguing against my advice to keep it quiet?


I'm not arguing such. Why are you trying to make this into that type of argument? Let me rephrase it to be more clear: It is not usually a good idea, but there are useful situations where it is appropriate.


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Wierd[sic] is quite aways from "dangerous", "drug-using" and "unreliable".


"Wierd" can mean many different things. It can infact mean "Dangerous, Drug-using and Unreliable" depending on your view of those things.

This brings to mind Lewis Carroll:
"When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
Nope, cannot argue with that type of logic. And if you want to quote dictionary entries, it helps to spell it properly: weird.


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It can be used in some cases. For this job I have now it helped....

So you are ignoring your own advice? Realize I've said nothing different.

I stand by my advice, even given my woefully inadequate personal experiences, ignoring Hollywood as a role model, and lack of a Pro Rating. I only report that my resume not only mentions skydiving, but features it, and it does so without speaking to point averages, number of jumps, time in sport, or any other irrelevant statistic. One last thing you might want to consider, Ron, is that it's just barely possible I have been on both sides of the interview table, and I'm not speaking out of my arse.

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