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kashton

I need help and advice... had a very recent traumatic brain injury =(

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Hi,

I've been skydiving for about 10 months now and just had a mild traumatic brain injury from an 8 foot fall while indoor rock climbing (bouldering). I had a concussion and don't remember 48 hours of my life that started right after I fell and hit the ground. I have been working with my neurotherapist to repair the damage (apparently mild traumatic brain injuries can be very severe, more severe that major traumatic brain injuries in many cases). I am afraid (and so is my doctor) about the rapid deceleration that occurs during opening. Is there a parachute that swivels for awhile before it opens to lower the G-forces exerted on my body and brain? I currently use a Saber 2 170 (I weigh about 165 lbs). I am, of course, not jumping for a few months until my brain heals well (at least 4), as my injury happened on the 18th of December.

All help and advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time and hopefully I can repay the kindness to the skydiving community with my future physical therapy work =) I am 23 and going for my doctorate in physical therapy and want to work with physically and mentally injured patients, possibly skydivers who have been in accidents.

Thank you! :)
Kevin
That John Denver's full of s**t man...

It's a great day to be alive

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Thanks SimpleJack! I am currently doing EEG work with my Neurotherapist (He is one of the top one's in his field right now and doing a lot of research work in it). It has been very helpful so far and we are trying to fix the areas of my brain that were injured in the fall.
That John Denver's full of s**t man...

It's a great day to be alive

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Good to hear.

As far as openings, I've never heard of a head injury or concussion caused by a hard opening. However, during deployment, I always move my chin downward touching my chest in case I get slammed. This is done more to avoid neck injury though. Always wear a helmet! Did you have one on when you fell off that wall?

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Is there a parachute that swivels for awhile before it opens to lower the G-forces exerted on my body and brain?



Kevin, while there are ways to increase the snivel on your main (larger slider, etc.), you're going to have to take into account that while it is your intention to jump the main, you're really jumping your reserve on every jump. A reserve is packed to open in ~300' at terminal; and will be abrupt.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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There are no guarantees with nay canopy that it will always open soft. If you are in a position where a hard opening will result in further brain injury, you might want to think about that.

Additionally, reserves are designed to open quickly, not softly. A reserve opening at terminal, or worse while unstable, can be quite hard.

If your Dr is being overly cautious, as most docs are, then there a few good choices.

The Sabre2 is not bad, but the Spectre is universally known as the softest opening canopy ouit there (which is why it's the choice for many camera flyers).

Additionally, Dacron lines can add another layer of protection between you and a hard opening. Dacron will stretch significantly and absorb a portion of the opening shock before it gets to you.

Finally, I would invest in some quality packing instruction. Once you have your rig assembled, spend some time with a rigger and develop a 'pack job' for your rig. Flaking the canopy is fairly basic, but each rig will have it's own method for the best possible result.

How wide should you make the canopy to fit the bag? How big should the folds be? Given the width of the bag and the length of the lines, how big and how many stows will leave you with the correct amount of excess?

Once you have these things figured out, practice unitl you can repeat the pack job in a consistant manner. This will go a long way toward avoiding packing errors, and possible hard openings/malfunctions. If you do switch canopies, buy used, and look for something with at least 100 jumps on it, it will be much easier to control during packing.

I'm sure it goes without saying, don't use a packer. Do it yourself, and do it right.

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The Sabre 2 is fine, at least as fine as any modern canopy for soft openings.



Without knowing the extent and location of his injury, as well as the prognosis, along with having a background in neurology, I can't see how you can possibly make the recommendation that any modern canopy will be OK to jump?


Kevin - if you're working with one of the best people in the field, give him the data and then trust his judgement. If you tell him the average G-forces experienced over opening, along with average time and what it can spike to in the event of a hard opening he'll be able to give you some good guidance - but it'll probably be 'I wouldn't recommend it until you're completely better'...

Remember, the sky isn't going anywhere. It'll be there when you're fully healed, but possibly aggrevating a serious brain injury doesn't sound like a good option to me. I'd be thinking 'what if a worst case scenario happened' rather than 'how can I get back in the air fastest'...

Heal fast.

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I always move my chin downward touching my chest in case I get slammed. This is done more to avoid neck injury though.



My opinion is by doing that you are setting yourself up to hyper-extend your neck when you do get a spanker on opening. A good neutral position is probably safer. If you have real concerns maybe some exercises to strengthen neck muscles will be more beneficial. Sorry to digress from original point.

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In Reply To: I always move my chin downward touching my chest in case I get slammed. This is done more to avoid neck injury though.

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That's about the worst thing you could do. With 25lbs of head hanging out in front of your spines neutral position if slammed by a 10 or 12g opening you are seting yourself up for a cervical fracture.(broken neck) keep you head neutral above your shoulders that is the way your spine can most absorb impact.

To the op, The brain has incredible abilities to recover. give yourself the time to get better. You are very young take the time to heel first and jump second.

BSBD
ATTACK LIFE ! IT'S GOING TO KILL YOU ANYWAY!!!!

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However, during deployment, I always move my chin downward touching my chest in case I get slammed. This is done more to avoid neck injury though.



Good thing you're not a doctor either.

The spine is designed to take load vertically, as if you're looking straight out to the horizon or slightly above.
----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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Second vote for a Spectre however if you are having to choose a canopy because of worrying about a brain injury I thing you should rethink this. While a Spectre does have a rep for long,soft openings. There is no guarantee and every once in a while it, likie any other canopy, will spank you.

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The Sabre 2 is fine, at least as fine as any modern canopy for soft openings.



Without knowing the extent and location of his injury, as well as the prognosis, along with having a background in neurology, I can't see how you can possibly make the recommendation that any modern canopy will be OK to jump?


Kevin - if you're working with one of the best people in the field, give him the data and then trust his judgement. If you tell him the average G-forces experienced over opening, along with average time and what it can spike to in the event of a hard opening he'll be able to give you some good guidance - but it'll probably be 'I wouldn't recommend it until you're completely better'...

Remember, the sky isn't going anywhere. It'll be there when you're fully healed, but possibly aggrevating a serious brain injury doesn't sound like a good option to me. I'd be thinking 'what if a worst case scenario happened' rather than 'how can I get back in the air fastest'...

Heal fast.




Could not have said it better. The sky is not going away. Let your youth be your healing friend, and relax with the rushing back to the sky.

On a dside not, the Sabre 2 is not the best for "soft" openings. My Katana had better openings than my sabre 2. Get a Spectre man. Way better. dacron lines too...




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In Reply To: I always move my chin downward touching my chest in case I get slammed. This is done more to avoid neck injury though.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



That's about the worst thing you could do. With 25lbs of head hanging out in front of your spines neutral position if slammed by a 10 or 12g opening you are seting yourself up for a cervical fracture.(broken neck) keep you head neutral above your shoulders that is the way your spine can most absorb impact.



Another great point. I hate how people will lay their head down while in the opening sequnce. The spine was not intended to take force with it bent. Keep the head up, or look upwards if you can!!





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Thank you for all of the replies and advice!

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Good to hear.

As far as openings, I've never heard of a head injury or concussion caused by a hard opening. However, during deployment, I always move my chin downward touching my chest in case I get slammed. This is done more to avoid neck injury though. Always wear a helmet! Did you have one on when you fell off that wall?



No, unfortunately I did not have a helmet on. No one wears one at the gym when they boulder but from now on I will be wearing one.

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Is there a parachute that swivels for awhile before it opens to lower the G-forces exerted on my body and brain?



Kevin, while there are ways to increase the snivel on your main (larger slider, etc.), you're going to have to take into account that while it is your intention to jump the main, you're really jumping your reserve on every jump. A reserve is packed to open in ~300' at terminal; and will be abrupt.



I have a Skyhook. Will this help with such a scenario?

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I'm sure it goes without saying, don't use a packer. Do it yourself, and do it right.



Thank you for the advice =)
That John Denver's full of s**t man...

It's a great day to be alive

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Skyhook will only do anything if there is a cutaway. If you have a total (bag-lock, pc in tow) then you will be pulling silver at terminal. (maybie slightly less)

Heel up dude we'll be waiting for ya.

Good luck get better.

Edit to add: Even if you cutaway a bag lock, your reserve will be deploying at or near terminal. high speed + fast opening = increased opening shock.
ATTACK LIFE ! IT'S GOING TO KILL YOU ANYWAY!!!!

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The Sabre 2 is fine, at least as fine as any modern canopy for soft openings.



Could not disagree more. A ZP 9 cell rectangular is perhaps the hardest opening class of canopy there is. A lightly loaded Spectre or Silhouette would be a far better choice. If you want to stick with a "Sabre class" canopy I would recommend a Pilot or Sapphire II over a Sabre II for soft openings.

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With all due respect, if you don’t have a PhD in Orthopedics, your opinions are no more credible than mine.

Just to clarify,

First, I said the Sabre 2 was “fine” for softer openings. I never said it was the best. I wouldn’t sell my Sabre 2 in favor of a Katana, as someone suggested earlier.

Secondly, I speak from experience when I say that holding my neck out & upward has in fact caused neck pain during hard openings. Ever hear of whiplash? Pressing my chin down against my chest on deployment has prevented neck injury on subsequent hard openings.

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I always move my chin downward touching my chest in case I get slammed. This is done more to avoid neck injury though.



My opinion is by doing that you are setting yourself up to hyper-extend your neck when you do get a spanker on opening. A good neutral position is probably safer. If you have real concerns maybe some exercises to strengthen neck muscles will be more beneficial. Sorry to digress from original point.



No doc, but I have a lifetime of expereience with neck and back injuries, and will second that in spades.

You definitely do not want your chin on your chest for a hard opening.

It depends on your specific problem, so see your doc. For the record though here is what works very well for me and my condition.

I had the C5/C6 fusion/hip-bone-spacer/plate & screws surgery done. With that and other spine injuries, I can take compression much better than a lateral snap (like a whiplash) or twisting. So as soon as I start to feel snatch from deployment I rotate back almost to an upright position. Not too early; gotta wait until you know the canopy is opening.

This position means all the forces will be in line with your spine instead of sideways or twisting pressures.

Also, I do not look up and watch my canopy open. You definitley do not want your neck craned around during a hard opening. I only look up once I feel it sniveling, or if I feel nothing 2 seconds after throwong out.

DISCLAIMER: I offer this only as food for thought. You should chat with the veterans where you jump regularly and your doc before doing anything.

Well, not ANYTHING; but you probably know what I mean.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

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Hi,

I've been skydiving for about 10 months now and just had a mild traumatic brain injury from an 8 foot fall while indoor rock climbing (bouldering). I had a concussion and don't remember 48 hours of my life that started right after I fell and hit the ground. I have been working with my neurotherapist to repair the damage (apparently mild traumatic brain injuries can be very severe, more severe that major traumatic brain injuries in many cases). I am afraid (and so is my doctor) about the rapid deceleration that occurs during opening. Is there a parachute that swivels for awhile before it opens to lower the G-forces exerted on my body and brain? I currently use a Saber 2 170 (I weigh about 165 lbs). I am, of course, not jumping for a few months until my brain heals well (at least 4), as my injury happened on the 18th of December.

All help and advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time and hopefully I can repay the kindness to the skydiving community with my future physical therapy work =) I am 23 and going for my doctorate in physical therapy and want to work with physically and mentally injured patients, possibly skydivers who have been in accidents.

Thank you! :)
Kevin



That's a lot of adjectives, and seems contradictory.

A mild traumatic injury that might be very severe?

Sounds like mild is the word that doesn't belong.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

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>if you don’t have a PhD in Orthopedics, your opinions are no more credible than mine.

I wouldn't trust someone with a PhD in Orthopedics! An MD, maybe.

>Pressing my chin down against my chest on deployment has prevented neck
>injury on subsequent hard openings.

I would suggest that you are guessing there. You had a hard opening while holding your head too far back, and have not had as-hard openings while holding your neck far forward, thus you're assuming that holding your head forward is better.

I see this sort of thing when people are learning to pack. They make ten pack jobs using a packing hook, and get lousy openings. Then they make ten pack jobs with it hanging over their shoulder, and they still get mostly lousy openings. They they try a new packing hook - and their openings gradually get better!

Did they find a magic packing hook? Nope, they just packed 30 parachutes and got better at it. The packing hook was incidental - but if you ask them, they will be able to "prove" from their experience that it was the hook that made the difference.

The best position for your neck to take pressure is straight up and down, the same position you'd use when you're walking. That allows the vertebral bodies and intervertebral disks to take the pressure in the way they are designed to. Hyperextension or hyperflexion while seeing serious deceleration can lead to damage of vertebral bodies and interverterbal disks, since they are being loaded in an unnatural position and taking that load over a much smaller part of their structure.

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>if you don’t have a PhD in Orthopedics, your opinions are no more credible than mine.

I wouldn't trust someone with a PhD in Orthopedics! An MD, maybe.

>Pressing my chin down against my chest on deployment has prevented neck
>injury on subsequent hard openings.

I would suggest that you are guessing there. You had a hard opening while holding your head too far back, and have not had as-hard openings while holding your neck far forward, thus you're assuming that holding your head forward is better.

I see this sort of thing when people are learning to pack. They make ten pack jobs using a packing hook, and get lousy openings. Then they make ten pack jobs with it hanging over their shoulder, and they still get mostly lousy openings. They they try a new packing hook - and their openings gradually get better!

Did they find a magic packing hook? Nope, they just packed 30 parachutes and got better at it. The packing hook was incidental - but if you ask them, they will be able to "prove" from their experience that it was the hook that made the difference.

The best position for your neck to take pressure is straight up and down, the same position you'd use when you're walking. That allows the vertebral bodies and intervertebral disks to take the pressure in the way they are designed to. Hyperextension or hyperflexion while seeing serious deceleration can lead to damage of vertebral bodies and interverterbal disks, since they are being loaded in an unnatural position and taking that load over a much smaller part of their structure.



Nice...




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I used fists under chin to prevent neck pain going worse (neck pain like can't lift your head from laying position without hands helping)

It did reduce my fear until I got better.

Is there anything wrong about this way?
What goes around, comes later.

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Skydiving is my life and while recovering from tramatic spinal surgery had to take an entire year off - and believe it or not, gravity worked just fine when I got back in the air.

Be patient, you only have one body, one life....
Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

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