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stevebabin

Anonymous Posting

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Should people be allowed to post anonymously in the incidents forum?
What say you, and why?



I think that posting anonymously anywhere is poor.

If it is an opinion, people should be able to identify
themselves and stand behind their words.

It seems more important for the incidents forum
because of the nature of what will be posted.
The content can be more emotionally painful than
the other forums.

Plus, Incidents is supposed to be about information
and learning. If someone can't supply the foundation for information, then it can't be trusted.

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Incidents Forum Posting Guidelines:


The purpose of this forum is to report, discuss and learn from fatal and serious non-fatal incidents.

Most, if not all, new threads here should start with the report of an actual incident.

General safety issues or small and potential incidents should be posted to the Safety and Training forum.

Incidents include: malfunctions, cutaways, wraps, collisions, crash landings etc.

I trust everyone will use their good judgment before starting a thread or disposing of advice.




~ I think it's bad form to post anything in the incidents forum not pertaining to an actual incident. ;)










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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Given that this pertains to this particular forum, and wouldn't be applicable to the others, I thought it best posted here.
I'm open to suggestons on where to stick it, though.;)
"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

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There are often repercussions for posting about incidents, particularly for staff members.


True.
There are also small minded people who like to make accusations/cast dispersions from the sanctuary of anonymity. Their only intent is the grinding of a personal axe, not to promote safety or education.
When these people post, many times survivors(and their lawyers) are mislead into believing rubbish, and becoming a tool for the anonymous person with the axe to grind.
"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

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I have a related question:

If someone is posting anonymously, then technically we should be able to say anything we want to them without it being a personal attack correct? I mean have can we PA someone that no one knows?

I only bring this up because most Annoymous posts seem to only stir up trouble and personally attack people.
"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero

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I have a related question:

If someone is posting anonymously, then technically we should be able to say anything we want to them without it being a personal attack correct? I mean have can we PA someone that no one knows?

I only bring this up because most Annoymous posts seem to only stir up trouble and personally attack people.



Excellent point.
"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

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I have a related question:

If someone is posting anonymously, then technically we should be able to say anything we want to them without it being a personal attack correct? I mean have can we PA someone that no one knows?

I only bring this up because most Annoymous posts seem to only stir up trouble and personally attack people.



Excellent point.



Most of the mods hate trolls AND the feeding the rest of us do responding to them. All it does is create more work for them editing/deleting or locking threads and banning people or disabling user names.

But yeah, if some anonymous poster comes on here trying to stir up shit, I'd like one free shot at 'em without repercussions. :P

Still, the mods have the ability to block access to the forums via IP address, so if they need to, they can.
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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There are often repercussions for posting about incidents, particularly for staff members.


True.
There are also small minded people who like to make accusations/cast dispersions from the sanctuary of anonymity. Their only intent is the grinding of a personal axe, not to promote safety or education.
When these people post, many times survivors(and their lawyers) are mislead into believing rubbish, and becoming a tool for the anonymous person with the axe to grind.



I would like to think that most of us are smart enough to consider the source when evaluating comments. There are usernames that I consider "expert" as far as airplanes go (or gear or instruction or ect).
For example, Diverdriver knows planes.
Billbooth knows parachutes.

Others have varying degrees of credibility.
Some clearly have an agenda, and have little or no credibility IMO. Those are often proven wrong in subsequent posts.
Some are clearly trolls who just want to stir up trouble.
Those who choose to post anonymously had better back up anything they say with supporting information if they want me to put any faith in what they say (now or in the future).
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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I would like to think that most of us are smart enough to consider the source when evaluating comments.


I would like to think this also.
Unfortunately, I don't think most Whuffos(including survivors and lawyers) have the insight to know when someone has an axe to grind.
"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

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I think it is very bad form to anonymously post in the Incidents forum. Especially when you are accusatory without any proof or reason except to try and get ahead in your own business by casting ugly shadows on those individuals who are in competition with you. It takes the family comradery right out of the sport.

It is about time someone mentioned this point, I hope more DZ.com readers come across this post and understand that there are just some with bad intentions and no factual knowledge.

It's one thing to remain anonymous because by coming out with the truth, your job may be in jeopardy. I have known and seen some people do that or they maintain a second identity when posting on contraversial topics. But nonetheless, I find that much different from the apparent trolls who continue with their attempts to stir the pot.
Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

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Personally I think this should be allowed, as long as there are no personal attacks. The BPA skydive mag features anonymous incident reporting. I am sure that most of us fuck up and get away with it. Everyone else can learn a lot from that, including us, without hideous repercussions.

There needs to be a forum where people are free to say stuff that might benefit others without getting in the shit

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Personally I think this should be allowed, as long as there are no personal attacks. The BPA skydive mag features anonymous incident reporting. I am sure that most of us fuck up and get away with it. Everyone else can learn a lot from that, including us, without hideous repercussions.

There needs to be a forum where people are free to say stuff that might benefit others without getting in the shit



I'm not getting your point.

The reports in the BPA mag withhold the names of the people who got hurt, right?

I think this thread is talking about the anonymity of the people making comments and judgments.

In the mag you certainly know who is publishing the report, don't you?

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Personally I think this should be allowed, as long as there are no personal attacks. The BPA skydive mag features anonymous incident reporting. I am sure that most of us fuck up and get away with it. Everyone else can learn a lot from that, including us, without hideous repercussions.

There needs to be a forum where people are free to say stuff that might benefit others without getting in the shit


How would you(or anyone) prevent those with an axe to grind from unfairly harming a business or individual in this forum?
"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

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The above question is open to anyone....

In most legal systems, the accused has the right to face his accuser. It keeps people from falsely accusing someone without repercussion.

Any ideas on how to achieve that here?
"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

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How would you have dropzone.com validate the "realness" of posters? It's just as easy to register with a fake name (or worse, someone else's name) than with no name at all.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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How would you have dropzone.com validate the "realness" of posters? It's just as easy to register with a fake name (or worse, someone else's name) than with no name at all.


I'm not sure...That's why I asked for suggestions.
Filling out a profile with a real name and DZ might be a start. If the person is an imposter, then others from that DZ might regognize it.
Not foolproof, but maybe a start.
"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

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My real name is Tim. It says so in my profile and chances are it's really true. That's pretty much all that's in there.

Admittedly I don't co-star in an animated television comedy so if you thought that was really me in in the avatar, I apologize.
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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Timmeh!!!
You've been posting for a long time..Obviously, you're not one who just got a profile to stir up unnecessary shit.

Or DID you?:o
"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

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My heart feels the way you do: Morally, I hate trolling shit stirrers, especially in the Incidents Forum, who grind their personal axe anonymously. It's cowardly; and when aspersions are cast against others (which is often), it can be despicable.

Having said that, however, my head chose the lesser of two evils, and voted Yes - anonymous posting should be allowed. Just as with a government that is a democracy, if we as a sport are going to regulate ourselves, we - as the collective membership and self-regulators - need crucial facts to see the light of day. Ask any diligent reporter or police investigator - often preserving the anonymity of the source is vital to getting that information.

It can be a bitter pill, but at the end of the day, it's a cost that - on balance - has to be tolerated. We'll simply have to trust our individual and collective selves to be effective filters.

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Can anyone show me some examples of an anonymous poster adding to the value of an incident thread?
I'm sure they're there, I just see so many more of the shit stirrers.
"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

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Can anyone show me some examples of an anonymous poster adding to the value of an incident thread?
I'm sure they're there, I just see so many more of the shit stirrers.



For a reasonable retainer, I'll take the time needed to do a search. ;) My unscientific recollection, from being on this site for a few years, is that there have been.

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Can anyone show me some examples of an anonymous poster adding to the value of an incident thread?
I'm sure they're there, I just see so many more of the shit stirrers.



For example, a DZ jumper/employee that has no other viable place to jump/work at, sees an incident that is covered up by the DZ or simply not reported, decides to post anonymously so that it is reported and things can be learned from it and the cover-up exposed, without fear of reprisal.
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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