ANOTHER downsizing-thread..

[Andy_Copland 0]

I was jumping a Nitro that was tame in line twists, then jumped a Diablo the same size and even loaded extremely lightly it was a pucker ride when it twisted up. Only done that once

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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well, the last 10 i havent jumped at "my" dz where i'm pretty eye-balled. so, i probably stood half of them..

but i know how to safe myself and slide my arse in if need be. or just roll it over for that matter..

other friends that know me and my jumping, have offered me to try their 120 springos..

I have no intention of reading this thread to see if this is a joke,I hope it is.


You are planning on knocking 30 sqft off of your canopy size and you are not standing up your landings? Really?? Do you really need us to go where this is going??

This post moderated by the kinder gentler Spence. All PAs removed.

[billvon 2,396]

>I was jumping a Nitro that was tame in line twists, then jumped a
>Diablo the same size and even loaded extremely lightly it was a pucker
>ride when it twisted up.

There was a Diablo making the rounds out here. A 150 I think. It kept going on sale for really cheap. Someone would buy it, chop it after a few weeks, and sell it for really cheap to someone else.

[ficus 0]

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If you were jumping a canopy like a crossfire, with a longer recovery arc. You would have less room for error.

This is just plain not true.

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With the shorter recovery arc if you are in a dive and realize that you are to low you can release and come out of the dive quicker. Which is better then if you were jumping a canopy with a longer recovery arc. You can end up with bones broken or worse!!! Good luck looks like you have your mind made up. Just be careful

The problem with learning on short recovery arc canopies is exactly that they provide a small margin for error.

A longer recovery arc not only gives you more adaptability to save the swoop if you are a little high or a little low, but most importantly, allows you to BAIL EARLIER if the ground looks big. That longer arc buys you the two most valuable things you can get: more altitude and more time.

Think about it this way -- would you rather turn 50 ft low on a Crossfire or on a Stiletto?

Edit: sorry I am a dumbass and didn't see that this post was old and I had already been repeatedly beaten to the punch.

[Andy_Copland 0]

Oh i can believe it, that thing really showed me what flying an eliptical 7 cell was all about. Sharp turns and no flare. A completely different canopy from a 9 cell Nitro of the same size.

Was a very fun canopy til i had to land it.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[skyshimas 0]

there is no big difference on openings between square and semi and even fully eliptical for that matter. I guess it's just the canopy you fly. If you fly katana yes big difference if you fly crossfire2 not so much(never flown cf 1) sabre2 and original sabre can't be much different. While i don't have many jumps on sabre2 i jumped sabre 1 and then went to crossfire2 its like night and day talking only about openings here.

[virgin-burner 1]

spence, if you were to read this thread, you would probably be surprised..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[virgin-burner 1]

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Changing size and design, at the same time, will
demand caution.

from student, to own rig at 60 jumps, that meant from a 210 to the 150,. probably was never before so aware.. and did the piloting-course pretty much straight after..

is there so much difference from a square to a semi!?

i have to test one to see for myself..

This will take some personal experience.

Squares tend to open in a more forgiving fashion.
I have had squares open with enough line twists
to have the risers pin my neck down, and still fly
along evenly.

On an elliptical, it is going to do whatever the last
line input was, and do it right-the-heck-now.
So, if your body position needs improvement, it will
teach you by going into a memorable spinning dive.

You get to where you "feel" your opening through
harness pressure (it pulls differently on one of the leg straps) and handle it by moving.

People who don't, get a little 90-degree snap to one side, or worse.

i always do get very consistent, on-heading openings, not that that says much about my body position on the current rectangular bitch..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[virgin-burner 1]

got a decent offer for a safire2 139..

have to think about that one..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[sparkie 0]

be careful with hooking it too soon. It is very difficult to get it right but it is very easy to get it wrong.

Getting it wrong hurts. I know.

If you plan to go ahead with it at least get an optima or something and a digital alti. DO NOT try to hook it by sight!

[sparkie 0]

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Attached is my lesson in downsizing quickly

yikes, my lesson in hooking it low looked much the same, although my blue collored pattern was slightly different and my leg was more swollen up

[pirana 0]

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can you elaborate on why not a safire2!?

bla-bla-bla, i'm from a dropzone where everyone jumps icaruses, except the hot boys on velos..
not that i dont like my original sabre, but yea, u know, u get used to stuff you see around..

Really, everyone with 200 jumps at your home DZ jumps an Icarus?

You can not consistently stand up more than half your landings and somebody of authority that watches you jump regularly is giving the green light to move to an eliptical 119?

And you want to downsize, go eliptical, and desire a shorter recovery arc so you can start swooping?

Yikes! I know you begged not to be flamed in your OP, but you are begging for it in the stuff you've typed so far.

May I buy some life insurance on you and be the beneficiary?

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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spence, if you were to read this thread, you would probably be surprised..

You'll have to gave me the short version. I hope you make the right decision. Have a small canopy you can't control is a way bigger deal then having a big canopy you can't control.

[virgin-burner 1]

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be careful with hooking it too soon. It is very difficult to get it right but it is very easy to get it wrong.

Getting it wrong hurts. I know.

If you plan to go ahead with it at least get an optima or something and a digital alti. DO NOT try to hook it by sight!

got an optima and an N3 should arrive as soon as it hits alti-2!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[Halfpastniner 0]

I think most schools of thought say you NEED to be able to hook it without an alti. (AKA dont rely on it) Search for a thread called the digital swoop and see the discussion.

Edit to clarify

BASE 1384

[virgin-burner 1]

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spence, if you were to read this thread, you would probably be surprised..

You'll have to gave me the short version. I hope you make the right decision. Have a small canopy you can't control is a way bigger deal then having a big canopy you can't control.

i DONT want an elliptical. icaruses are not only CF's or VX's. the safire2 is a semi-elliptical with a LONGER recovery-arc than my actual sabre has. and if i was so keen on downsizing, i wouldnt of bothered to ask the question here in the first place..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[virgin-burner 1]

Quote

I think most schools of thought say you NEED to be able to hook it without an alti. Search for a thread called the digital swoop and see the discussion.

as a beginner its not the worst idea to have. u get an idea of how much altitude you loose in given circumstances and learn how things should look, say, training-wheels for aspiring swoopers!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[Halfpastniner 0]

I edited my post because it sounded like I was anti- altimiter which i didnt mean to say.

BASE 1384

[virgin-burner 1]

ok..
and to add, its not as if i'm going out and trying to do it on my own, i'm getting kind of structured training, doing course and all that..

no-one got a good offer for a 149!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[sparkie 0]

Quote

I think most schools of thought say you NEED to be able to hook it without an alti. (AKA dont rely on it) Search for a thread called the digital swoop and see the discussion.

Edit to clarify

that may be so, BUT if you dont have enough jumps (i dont know how many it takes, I'm getting there but I cant say I'm 100% all the time) you just don't see the "sightpicture" spot on all the time, so you might end up too low.

Digital helps you to be more consistent and to get used to the sightpicture, you should have before hooking it.

It's just a tool tho, because there are more variables like how far you pull the riser, how hard, wind, down/updrafts, hot cold etc etc. That's why a higher start (longer recovery) is safer, because it gives more time to eject or adjust the swoop.

[davelepka 4]

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I think most schools of thought say you NEED to be able to hook it without an alti. Search for a thread called the digital swoop and see the discussion.

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as a beginner its not the worst idea to have. u get an idea of how much altitude you loose in given circumstances and learn how things should look, say, training-wheels for aspiring swoopers!?

That's a negative ghostrider.

Device dependency is not a situation you should willingly go into. The way you learn the things you need to know is by doing, and doing it the proper way.

If you are ever making a turn to final that is of a degree that you are not very familiar with, or turning from an altitude that you are not very familiar with, then you are in over your head.

This is the reason that you spend time on a canopy, learning it fly it straight in. Real time, 50 jumps min.

Then you can add to that some double fronts on final. A canopy will recover quickly from double fronts, so there is less 'commitment' to the landing. It does however begin to train your eyes for more speed on final, and train your muscles for flying a canopy level to the ground.

After a realistic number of jumps using this technique, let's say 75, you can begin to add a 45 degree turn to the final. The low degree of turn will help to limit the 'commitment' to the landing. Additionally, the 45 will need to be initiated just a touch higher than the double fronts. Keeping in mind that you are readily familiar with the altitude for initiating double fronts, this is an easy adjustment you can easily make.

So you toss the 45s for 50 jumps or so, and guess what, you add another 45 and start in with the 90s. Again, just a slight adjustment from what you're used to. Additionally, your muscle reflex has had 100+ jumps to get used to flying level, and handling the extra speed.

I'm sure you can imagine what comes next, and so on, and so on.


Using any other method will have you in over your head. Even if you can use the alti to hit a perfect 180, what do you do then? How do youknow what it's supposed to look like for the last half of your dive? More importantly, how do you know when the last half of your dive is totally fucked? You don't.

Even if the dive goes fine, what do you know about flying a canopy level with the ground at high speed? Nothing. You think it's all just fun and games when you get the canopy all wound up and really moving? Actually, it is fun, but also an area where things can go wrong.

Nobody anywhere is exempt from needing to jump more. There is no quick way to learn how to swoop. Don't think that a gizmo is going to help you, it won't. When you get good enough that you are doing the same turn, the same way, every time, THEN use an alti just for reference. When 40 or 50 ft will make a difference between getting 80% instead of 100%, and you need to focus on hitting the gates, use an alti as a reference. We're talking well over 500 swoops on the same canopy.

For now, stick with the 150s. It's a good size, and the loading is where you ned to be. You've got some time under that size, and that level of experience will help you learn faster. Downsizing will erase that experience, and push you back a bit.

Get rid of the old-school Sabre. The Sabre2 150 is a good choice, or the Safire2 149. Keep in mind that both are 150s but much different than what you have. Ease into the transition, and take your time.

[virgin-burner 1]

Quote

Quote

I think most schools of thought say you NEED to be able to hook it without an alti. Search for a thread called the digital swoop and see the discussion.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


as a beginner its not the worst idea to have. u get an idea of how much altitude you loose in given circumstances and learn how things should look, say, training-wheels for aspiring swoopers!?

That's a negative ghostrider.

Device dependency is not a situation you should willingly go into. The way you learn the things you need to know is by doing, and doing it the proper way.

If you are ever making a turn to final that is of a degree that you are not very familiar with, or turning from an altitude that you are not very familiar with, then you are in over your head.

This is the reason that you spend time on a canopy, learning it fly it straight in. Real time, 50 jumps min.

Then you can add to that some double fronts on final. A canopy will recover quickly from double fronts, so there is less 'commitment' to the landing. It does however begin to train your eyes for more speed on final, and train your muscles for flying a canopy level to the ground.

After a realistic number of jumps using this technique, let's say 75, you can begin to add a 45 degree turn to the final. The low degree of turn will help to limit the 'commitment' to the landing. Additionally, the 45 will need to be initiated just a touch higher than the double fronts. Keeping in mind that you are readily familiar with the altitude for initiating double fronts, this is an easy adjustment you can easily make.

So you toss the 45s for 50 jumps or so, and guess what, you add another 45 and start in with the 90s. Again, just a slight adjustment from what you're used to. Additionally, your muscle reflex has had 100+ jumps to get used to flying level, and handling the extra speed.

I'm sure you can imagine what comes next, and so on, and so on.


Using any other method will have you in over your head. Even if you can use the alti to hit a perfect 180, what do you do then? How do youknow what it's supposed to look like for the last half of your dive? More importantly, how do you know when the last half of your dive is totally fucked? You don't.

Even if the dive goes fine, what do you know about flying a canopy level with the ground at high speed? Nothing. You think it's all just fun and games when you get the canopy all wound up and really moving? Actually, it is fun, but also an area where things can go wrong.

Nobody anywhere is exempt from needing to jump more. There is no quick way to learn how to swoop. Don't think that a gizmo is going to help you, it won't. When you get good enough that you are doing the same turn, the same way, every time, THEN use an alti just for reference. When 40 or 50 ft will make a difference between getting 80% instead of 100%, and you need to focus on hitting the gates, use an alti as a reference. We're talking well over 500 swoops on the same canopy.

For now, stick with the 150s. It's a good size, and the loading is where you ned to be. You've got some time under that size, and that level of experience will help you learn faster. Downsizing will erase that experience, and push you back a bit.

Get rid of the old-school Sabre. The Sabre2 150 is a good choice, or the Safire2 149. Keep in mind that both are 150s but much different than what you have. Ease into the transition, and take your time.

thanks dave, good stuff!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[DanG 1]

"Swoop by beep" is a really bad idea.

Last summer I was coming in for a sunset beer kicking landing, but my beeper went off late. I knew it looked low, but went for it anyway. About halway into the turn, my hundreds of jumps without a beeper told me that I was a dumbass and neded to get out of this turn NOW. After a stab and subsequent uneventful landing I got a finger wagging from the S&TA and some other jumpers whom I respect very much. I suspect that I would have gotten a finger wagging from an EMT and well respected orthopedic surgeons if I didn't have the experience to get out of that turn early.

Learn the sight picture first without the beeper.

As far as the OP's question, I'd get a more modern design of the same size you're jumping now. I have no experience with Safire2's, but Sabre2's are very nice canopies.

- Dan G

[virgin-burner 1]

that finger wagging got me laughing..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[billvon 2,396]

>DO NOT try to hook it by sight!

If you can't "hook it by sight" you have no business hooking at all. You lack basic skills required to safely land a parachute via a high performance manuever.