ANOTHER downsizing-thread..

[ozzy13 0]

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>I think with the safire if I mis judged the dive i t would come out faster.
>Where with the crossfire if I mis judged it will take longer to come out . . .

I'd say they both take about the same amount of time to come out of the swoop once you start recovering (i.e. adding brakes.) With the longer recovery arc you will have more time to do that.

Well swooping correctly you should not need to add breaks (RIGHT) Im just talking about the actual dive of the canopy and its recovery to full flight. The Safire will do this much faster. I have jumped both and this is what I noticed.

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[virgin-burner 1]

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>so, safire2, sabre2, wont make that much of a difference then!?

I can't speak to the Sabre2 150/Safire2 149 (I've never compared them) but in the smaller sizes I think the Safire2 is a slightly better canopy to learn swooping on. Longer arc and more stable during initiation. But it's not a big difference.

anyone got a safire2 149 for sale!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[virgin-burner 1]

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>I think with the safire if I mis judged the dive i t would come out faster.
>Where with the crossfire if I mis judged it will take longer to come out . . .

I'd say they both take about the same amount of time to come out of the swoop once you start recovering (i.e. adding brakes.) With the longer recovery arc you will have more time to do that.

Well swooping correctly you should not need to add breaks (RIGHT) Im just talking about the actual dive of the canopy and its recovery to full flight. The Safire will do this much faster. I have jumped both and this is what I noticed.

jeeeeesus, could you guys settlle on an opinion!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[billvon 2,391]

>Well swooping correctly you should not need to add breaks (RIGHT)

No, you always have to add a little. Brian Germain has a great diagram of an "ideal" swoop in his book, and its natural arc is just _below_ ground level - which means you have to add a little brake to flatten it out as you begin the flare. You should always start each swoop with your hands in the brakes, expecting to have to add some brake, ready to add a lot if needed.

Again, a longer recovery arc will give you more time to add brakes if you need to.

I highly recommend Brian Germain's book BTW. It goes into detail on all this and has some great general information on swooping.

[chuckakers 370]

I try to keep it simple. When you can land what you jump 10 for 10 in a no-wind condition, standing up, with reasonable accuracy, you can downsize if you like. If you can't do that, you probably shouldn't.

Most people downsize without even realizing all the performance their current canopy actually has to offer. The fact that you have taken some instruction is a big plus there.

Hook 'em hard, land 'em soft

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[jakee 1,254]

Good decision. On another note though, I'm bemused by these two statements;

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well, the last 10 i havent jumped at "my" dz where i'm pretty eye-balled. so, i probably stood half of them..

and yea, i can land it in pretty much every shit-hole, that i'm sure of. all the places i jump at have plenty of outs, i do think about those things when i get out, or am on the way down..

Are you serious? You can't stand your canopy up with only the minor distraction of being at a different DZ to deal with, but you're confident about your ability to put it down nicely in any kind of off landing scenario? Really?

I think you may need to take a very good look at what your skills really are vs what you think they are.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Para5-0 0]

I just wasted the better part of 45 minutes reading this thread because it was more interesting then the inaguaration. That being said, have we not been here before on numerous occasions? All he has to do is search downsizing and read for the next week, or better yet ask his own mentors, Instructors, or the S & TA. Let me know who is going to give his blessing to bust BSR's.

"Any parachute 150 square feet or smaller is considered a high-performance parachute and falls into the D license guideline regardless of the wing loading."

"D license 1.4 psf maximum until demonstrated
proficiency under canopy."

Nuf Said.

[chuckakers 370]

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"D license 1.4 psf maximum until demonstrated proficiency under canopy."

Nuf Said.

uh...he's from Switzerland. I agree, though.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[Jumpah 0]

You know what is good for you, you've been around long enough.

To post here is just gunning for controversy

[virgin-burner 1]

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"D license 1.4 psf maximum until demonstrated proficiency under canopy."

Nuf Said.

uh...he's from Switzerland. I agree, though.

thanks for that!
1.4 psf!? pounds pounds/square feet!?

@jakee: i dont know what it is, so far i've had one off landing, at "my" dz, pretty much elevated from the level where we usually land thanks to my mad tracking skills.

all joking aside, i think its a mental thing. everyone knows me there, my mentors are there, my instructors and so on. maybe i just need the extra pressure!?

dont want to excuse anything with above statement, but with said off-landing, i had to deal with trees and power-lines and what not. when i stood it, i picked up my canopy and walked the 6ft to the road that led next to the farmhouse.

jesus, this thread has turned worse in less time than i'd ever expected..

so, anyone got a safire2 rouhly the size for sale!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[JohanW 0]

I've seen BillVon explain before he has found a Safire 2 to have a relatively long recovery arc. I seem to remember him mentioning it may have been that exact particular canopy. Do a search, it was useful.

Other than that, I fully agree with dragon2. Sabre 2 sounds like the way to go. (And do not jump a Springo.)

One serious question: if you are going to invest money and time in swooping, why not invest it in jumps on your current canopy instead of in a new canopy?

With all that usefulness out of the way, my honest opinion is not what you want to hear. You're in over your head. See you in Incidents.

Johan.
I am. I think.

[virgin-burner 1]

i actually declined in the offer to demo the springo..

and i do kind of like the longer arc of the safire compared to the sabre for the type of landing i intend to do..

and to be honest, no, i dont want to see ANY of you in the incidents. again, hence this thread..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[virgin-burner 1]

and here i am, defending my own self against dorkzone and my mentors/instructors recommendations..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[Andy_Copland 0]

As i said, your mentor needs a kick in the head if he said get a Safire2 119 when you cant stand up a sabre 150

Edit: Try thinking for yourself and not going on what other people say. As skybitch said you are the one under the canopy, not them. Although she said it much better.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[JohanW 0]

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and here i am, defending my own self against dorkzone and my mentors/instructors recommendations..

You knew that when you started the thread.

Frankly, I am amazed at how well-behaved and helpful we all are in helping you dig your own grave.

Johan.
I am. I think.

[virgin-burner 1]

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and here i am, defending my own self against dorkzone and my mentors/instructors recommendations..

You knew that when you started the thread.

Frankly, I am amazed at how well-behaved and helpful we all are in helping you dig your own grave.

luvs u 2, did u check my sig lately!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[stitch 0]

I applaud you myself. These type of threads are always at least entertaining. At least you knew what to expect in terms of advice before starting this thread. That being said. I think you're nuts.


I wonder if it would be in bad taste if I started "Yet another downsizing thread". Maybe one about stuffing a Parafoil 282 into a Javelin JNK. Any comments ?

"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

[Jumpah 0]

Agreed...with your dz.com post loading you could have written up the responses for most of the people here yourself!

[virgin-burner 1]

yea, probably, altough i usually just mess in the bonfire..
but u know, even before i started, it has always been said, switzerland, highest standards bla-bla-bla.. who am i to judge my instructors advice!?

i dont know how many of those incidents did a canopy-course and went through all the shit i have to get here.

witnessed my first real bad accident in my first season (safire2 149 BTW), i been through my first (and hopefully last! ) two fatalities my 2nd season..

fucking hell, what can happen to me anyway!?

and its not as if i was dead-centered on getting that 119.

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[JohanW 0]

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luvs u 2, did u check my sig lately!?

---

-FAG #1-
arschloch-brother #3 stammtischknallfrosch # 2
looking to buy a safire2 roughly 149

I'm honestly not sure which way the scale tips in your particular case: learning to swoop on a more appropriate wing or learning on the wing you already know.

A structured approach to learning to swoop is a good idea in either case, you got that right.

Ideally, you'd make 50 or 100 jumps on the new one before starting to learn to swoop, but I know that's just too much to ask.

And if I didn't care, I would not be posting in this thread.

To the poster with the comment on the Foil 282: those things are dangerous. I twisted an ankle on one just last Friday. First jump of the year, too.

Johan.
I am. I think.

[virgin-burner 1]

ouh, and to add fuel to the fire, as some of you may know, i did my first WS jumps REALLY early. and stopped for another 100-something jumps.

then i bought a mach1, already knowing i wouldnt jump that one for some time. did more flights with the prodigy and ended up buying a 2nd wingsuit, a classicII for those of you familiar with it.

so, altough i might have stupid ideas, its not as if i got out and just do it anyway.. just for the record!






sometimes, this place really sucks. instead of helping a newb out in his (prolly stupid) ideas, whatever, some of you go on placing bounce-bingo, see you in incidents, all that jabber.. fair enough, i'm long around to know where it leads. some dipshit thinking he can do it anyway, maybe instead of jumping to conclusions too fast, better have a look at the guys posting-/stupidness history. not that jumping a WS at 70 jumps was very smart, but at the time i didnt knew better and learned from it..

edited to add: thanks for your time anyway, much appreciated!!!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[virgin-burner 1]

i wouldnt really say that learning to fly a new wing would bother me too much. i just feel that the sabre is not the tool best for that. just a more modern desing.. have to demo a safire2, maybe i set my expectations too high on that..

parafoil!? isnt that one used to "test" for other types of jumping!?

edited to clarify

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[happythoughts 0]

This year, I upsized. Also, I don't swoop.

However, I followed a personal rule. For the first,
20 landings on a new canopy, I add 10 extra feet
to my approach.

I am pretty accurate on my landings, so I landed
a little farther away. Not a problem.

I did the 20 landings in one or two months.
There is no big race, right?

Remember, 200 jumps is 200 landings.
I think it is great that you have done all the skills tests. That is a great start.

I hope that you talk to other jumpers who are
experienced at swooping.
Better to learn something by asking than to spend
300 jumps figuring it out.

I had 1400 jumps on my first 150, a square.
Then 600 on my next 150, an elliptical.
Large difference in performance and twitchy movements.
The openings were radically different.
(I now weigh 200 lbs without gear)

Changing size and design, at the same time, will
demand caution.

[virgin-burner 1]

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Changing size and design, at the same time, will
demand caution.

from student, to own rig at 60 jumps, that meant from a 210 to the 150,. probably was never before so aware.. and did the piloting-course pretty much straight after..

is there so much difference from a square to a semi!?

i have to test one to see for myself..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[happythoughts 0]

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Changing size and design, at the same time, will
demand caution.

from student, to own rig at 60 jumps, that meant from a 210 to the 150,. probably was never before so aware.. and did the piloting-course pretty much straight after..

is there so much difference from a square to a semi!?

i have to test one to see for myself..

This will take some personal experience.

Squares tend to open in a more forgiving fashion.
I have had squares open with enough line twists
to have the risers pin my neck down, and still fly
along evenly.

On an elliptical, it is going to do whatever the last
line input was, and do it right-the-heck-now.
So, if your body position needs improvement, it will
teach you by going into a memorable spinning dive.

You get to where you "feel" your opening through
harness pressure (it pulls differently on one of the leg straps) and handle it by moving.

People who don't, get a little 90-degree snap to one side, or worse.