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markovwgti

1.333 Wingloading with 160 jumps....

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What do you guys think about that?

http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=guestpass&id=a652x

here is a video of this guy today. Maybe he should be asking himself this question. Lucky to be alive. He is now a poster child add for sky hook lol



(Personal disclaimer: I'm a noob, and I don't know shit, but I have seen someone broken already.)

Amazing performance on this video. And that's markovwgti????

Here's a question for you, markovwgti: What are you going to do when you have a malfunction that tangles your lines in your camera helmet? Can you say, "Death by Skyhook?"

(Note: This is obviously not an anti-Skyhook statement. If you don't know why, you shouldn't be jumping a camera.)

Also, the fact that you had a problem getting both cables to release PROVES you need to do a lot of hanging-harness EP training. A lot.

I have a theory about you, sir. I think you read everything you could get your hands on, learned all about gear, and deduced that if you just buy the safest, most idiot-proof, and technologically advanced hardware, you'll be just fine.

Quote from Brian Germain - whom you should listen to: "Your gear is going to look lovely sitting next to you in the hospital."



Seriously, Marko - Don't bounce, man. Go back to your 170 and fly the shit out of it.
T.I.N.S.

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Seriously, Marko - Don't bounce, man. Go back to your 170 and fly the shit out of it.



Will NEVER happen. In his eyes, he survived a malfunction and now figures "hey, what the hell.. I had to cutaway and I did". Too bad the malfunction was his own friggin' fault!

If anything he'll probably want to downsize again. Oh well..

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My buddies bounce thread: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=833952#833952

You've got the same loading as he did on his Sabre 2. He broke his tibia, fibula and femur. He was super current and doing a canopy control course when he broke himself. Hope you're luckier than he was.



Well if you read the post...he was taking a SWOOPING class.he started a 90 degree front riser turn way too low...And he broke himself while swooping..i wont be doing anything of that sort for a long long long time...swoooping and coming in for a straight landing nice and slow are 2 different things...thanks




Hey remember this post?! You don't necessarily have to be trying to swoop to fuck yourself up under canopy. It's better to learn canopy control under a lightly loaded canopy. You just fucked up and spun your canopy up. You might want to reconsider your canopy choice. Good luck

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I did the same thing under a 210, you did it above your hard deck, you handled yourself in the time it took to get your reserve out and got it on video.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2712145;#2712145

Christ almighty, many people have died because they reacted poorly to the very same incident in the same time frame.

Or another thing to consider when the reaper swings that black blade of his many skilled skydivers have met much worse fate for reasons that nobody can explain.

I remember just a few years ago, the advice was cutaway, get stable, pull silver, he would have been at 600 feet without a skyhook following that advice and the reserve may or may not have reached linestretch before his body struck the ground.

It appears to me you landed your reserve just fine.... what size was your reserve btw?

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>I remember just a few years ago, the advice was cutaway, get stable, pull silver . . .

I have never seen an instructor or S+TA teach "getting stable before you pull silver." While I am sure some people think it, it is neither good nor common advice.

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>I remember just a few years ago, the advice was cutaway, get stable, pull silver . . .

I have never seen an instructor or S+TA teach "getting stable before you pull silver." While I am sure some people think it, it is neither good nor common advice.



Clearly it may not be *good* or common advice as you say or wise (which I am in complete agreement of) to think to get stable before deploying the reserve, the primary focus is; always have anything over your head before ground impact..... yet time and time again regarding the RSL debate it has been otherwise stated differently from far to many jumpers with higher jump numbers than me..... ie: see any thread regarding the spinning mal debate.

Nonetheless it is the advice (or debate theory) I've read regularly regarding the commentary about RSL systems or not and it can be found in nearly every thread that relates to RSL vs non RSL equipped rigs going back further than 12 to 24 months ago, or greater, ie; pre-skyhook equipped rigs, so outside of that commentary which many hundreds of young jumpers follow on this forum, or have had drummed into their heads by old jump dogs for no valid reason outside of CRW or other valid reason. Here is a video shot by a low jump number jumper disputing that train of thought.

Not to digress from 1.3333 @ 160 yet I have, for I know jumpers better served at a wl of .6/1 whatever their jump numbers are.

As I mentioned to him in a PM, and pardon me being frank I flew the living crap out of my previous canopy doing everything I read until I out flew it in the most extreme reckless manner at a safe altitude dependent upon my reserve. I wanted to know where that edge was, and then I pushed it past that. So now I know, and he does as well.

We are not playing checkers. There is a bright orange sticker on most canopies I've looked at

The video serves much better those who don't yet know that line, as a training example in reality yet shot by someone who I agree shouldn't have.... and all things considered he did well. 13 or maybe 15 seconds till cutaway. the problem is.... you may as a jumper end up with 4 seconds or depending what the situation is..... zero. Beware, we have the leisure of debating his actions online.

So..... and I can't clearly stress strongly further, don't do what he did lower, better yet don't do what he did at all, this thread is a clear example of what not to do. The video serves as an educational example. Anyone who views the video can understand he is seconds away from time running out.

markovwgti is not skilled..... I can't say he is, again I don't know him, or have watched him jump, he is lucky, he relied upon training, and sometimes training is all it takes, yet he also relied upon the luck bucket, he did what he knew or was trained to know what he knew at the time and thankfully for that he is here to feel bad about what is said about his video negativity in this forum.

He'll learn and that is good.... thankfully.... or hopefully. :)
Now he needs to buy beer and not do that dumb shit again. ;)

I'll say this to him, take what you don't want to hear and understand it isn't bad advice, it's the best advice.

I can't bash him or have I but I will drink his beer. :)

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You said it best!!!!!!!
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I'll say this to him, take what you don't want to hear and understand it isn't bad advice, it's the best advice.

//////////////////////////////////////////////

Now take this advise and apply it to your own post about downsizing. Or is you own advise not good for that????? :S:S

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

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Clearly it may not be *good* or common advice as you say or wise (which I am in complete agreement of) to think to get stable before deploying the reserve, the primary focus is; always have anything over your head before ground impact..... yet time and time again regarding the RSL debate it has been otherwise stated differently from far to many jumpers with higher jump numbers than me..... ie: see any thread regarding the spinning mal debate.



What you are describing, unless I am mistaken, is one of the many benefits of the Skyhook, i.e. the reserve comes out so fast, you don't have chance to rotate.

I personally believe (though still a noob, mind you) that having a Skyhook is one of the main things leading Marko to think it's ok to fly such an unsafe WL.

False sense of security, yes?
T.I.N.S.

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Also note that you don't need to be under a small parachute to induce line twists - I did it jumping my TZ205 loaded below a pound per square foot. To quote Brian Germain, it's ballet not boxing. Yanking on the controls is not a good idea.

I also think that pulling the slider down, loosening the chest strap, and letting the canopy spread makes for a more stable pilot + canopy interface.

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I guess he has no comment..

Gotta love how fast that reserve came out, damn!

Woulda came out even quicker if he had a bigger reserve PC than a Sabre2 150 though..:D


--------------------------------------------------
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

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I guess he has no comment..



Maybe between his self induced malfunction plus the heat he has also drawn from the Free Flyers Forum he has realized that he has become "That Guy".

And you dont want to become "That Guy"!

Hopefully he learns from his mistakes and learns to listen before he breaks himself or takes out an innocent bystander.

Some do. Some don't. Some fade away. Some hang around.

A friend of mine used to have a tag line that "Maybe my life was meant to serve as a warning to others"....

Major Dad
CSPA D-579

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Clearly it may not be *good* or common advice as you say or wise (which I am in complete agreement of) to think to get stable before deploying the reserve,

I don't like that being said even with all the disclaimers. A lot of people have gotten killed trying to get stable. Why not learn to hold a body position during cutaway that enhances stability? I have about a dozen cutaways, from streamers to spinners, all of them stable. It's all about body position.

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>Why not learn to hold a body position during cutaway that enhances stability?

Partly because a dearch makes it easier to see the handles. However, if a more experienced jumper wants to practice arching before they pull the handles, and can still see them, then it might not be a bad idea.

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Just a thought, we could Debrief this so everyone gets something out of it.
What went well?
-He located his handles and initiated procedures.
-Rear Riser turn on reserve and then looks like a flat turn to land reserve.
-Landed safe, lived to tell about it

What can we improve on?
-Altitude Awareness
-Canopy Control
-Respect for Canopy
-Respect for Wingload
-Landing patterns and setups
-manuevers below 2000'

How do we improve?
-Upsize?
-Canopy Control Class
-Remedialzation
-Practice up high

Set Goals?
-Better Alt Awareness
-Better Canopy Control
-Better Canopy knowledge
-Slow Down

Just a start.

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>Why not learn to hold a body position during cutaway that enhances stability?

Partly because a dearch makes it easier to see the handles. However, if a more experienced jumper wants to practice arching before they pull the handles, and can still see them, then it might not be a bad idea.

It's all in how you train.;)

Put your feet on your butt (won't interfere with finding the handles) while you look and grab the handles. Arch your back, punch, punch, arch with your arms, head back (if you're not wearing a camera) and watch your reserve inflate.B|

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I guess he has no comment..



I talked to Marko. He does not want to fuel the fire. This I think woke him up and he realized that he needs to slow down. Some really good instructors are working with him to get him back on track and he realizes he was very lucky. Basically he shit his pants lol. I find these forums funny. I was ALWAYS told, praise in public and correct in private. I guess if you post something on here you better be ready for the vultures to come a get you :ph34r:

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

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I was ALWAYS told, praise in public and correct in private. I guess if you post something on here you better be ready for the vultures to come a get you



If you ask for an opinion on here, be prepared to get one (or more) that you don't agree with.

He asked for one. Look at the very first post.

Many times, I agree, there are people on here who do not ask for opinions on their choices who are provided with them anyway. However, Marko came on here and explicitly asked for one in an open forum. He has no one to blame but himself for any "fire" that has been created.

He then went and posted the video of his cutaway on Skydivingmovies.com, which is frequented by many users of this site. He used essentially the same name he uses on Dropzone.com, he didn't try to hide who he was. People are going to make the connection and offer their additional opinion on this thread.

Sorry, not really feeling too sorry for the shitstorm that he brought upon himself. If he really wanted to have a thoughtful discussion of his choices he would have had it with trusted advisors at the DZ and maybe made a different choice.

Instead, he bought the canopy (perhaps against the advice of trusted advisors?) then came on here hoping to find someone who would back up his decision so he could go to those advisors and say "See, you're wrong." Either that or he just likes to stir up shit and get attention.

Either way, I'm not really feeling the "poor Marko, all this negative attention" vibe right now.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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Again this is why I hate posting on here. Tell me please where did I say that we or you should feel sorry for Marko. I agree that he opened himself up for ALL of this . There is No doubt that he bought this upon himself. I guess it goes back to how I was raised. If you got nothing nice to say don't say anything at all.
Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

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I guess it goes back to how I was raised. If you got nothing nice to say don't say anything at all.



That is exactly why these forums are important - sometimes to get some truth, it comes at the expense of your feelings. I certainly wouldn't want it any other way. And I think most of the folks here with thousands of jumps aren't trying to prop themselves up; they're trying to save the sport by saving lives.

I contend that it's better to learn some lessons from others' experience - the universe teaches much, much, much harder lessons.
T.I.N.S.

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>Arch your back, punch, punch, arch with your arms, head back . . .

That works with one-hand-per-handle, but not with the two-hands-per-handle technique I both recommend and teach in the FJC. From my experience about 75% of schools do the two-hands-per-handle technique for several reasons.

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I contend that it's better to learn some lessons from others' experience - the universe teaches much, much, much harder lessons.



I agree 100%. I just dont see bashing someone over the head to teach them is any help at all. I dont see it at 400 jumps and I wont see at 4000 jumps.
Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

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