CSpenceFLY 1 #26 February 24, 2009 Careful Mike, You're going to have the coaches union all stirred up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nutz 0 #27 February 24, 2009 Man, this might make me get my coach rating back. I have been jumping with newbies for free anyway but I couldn't sign their card. I think it is stupid to charge them for something that I am ready and willing to give for free. Thank you Mike. "Don't! Get! Eliminated!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
michaelmullins 77 #28 February 24, 2009 Quote Careful Mike, You're going to have the coaches union all stirred up. Whenever the Coaches have a union, we just throw some cold water on them and they seem to separate OK. Works with dogs, too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #29 February 24, 2009 QuoteMan, this might make me get my coach rating back. I have been jumping with newbies for free anyway but I couldn't sign their card. Even with just a coach rating you still cannot sign the card, except for 4 places on the 4-page card. There are two places on the 4-page card that a rigger may sign instead of an I. There are two places on the 4-page card that a pilot may sign instead of an I. All other items require an Instructor signature & license #. .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #30 February 24, 2009 QuoteRoamingDZ trip??? I would be up for that. It would have to be in the summer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #31 February 24, 2009 Quote Quote So you are saying Instructors ( AFF and Tandem) pay several hundred dollars to get there rating and work for free. Letting the DZO make all the money and are proud to do it. Am I reading this right? If so what are you guys smoking down there. I want some. I don't mind helping the next guy out but working for free not me. Thanks Mike for the reply. I based my reply from this Heatmiser All coach jumps at my DZ are donated, as well as instructor jumps. The only one that gets paid is the DZO. Weird as it is, they wouldn't have it any other way.Crazy I think you are doing a great service to your students and I would have know problem jumping with a student on a coach jump for slot. The statement above makes it sound like Instructors were doing it for free tooNever give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #32 February 24, 2009 Quote Careful Mike, You're going to have the coaches union all stirred up. Hey I pay a lot of dues for my union. They better do something for me Never give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefalljason 0 #33 February 24, 2009 Hey Mike, WOW, that sounds like an awesome program. I believe it will defiantly help with student retention. Thanks for making the effort to help grow the sport. I really wish we were able to support an AFF program in Tullahoma (THA) so we didn’t have to tell those pumped-up first timers who ask “what’s next?” that they are going to have to go to our “other dropzone located in west Tennessee” to continue their training which is usually not an option for them so they walk away from the sport.I guess the first step toward that goal would be for some of us “local guys” to get off our butts and go get our coach and AFF ratings, which I (and others) would be glad to do if we are going to be able to “put it to use” if this program is implemented at THA. Quote The retention rate in skydiving is abysmal. We do not need any more Tandems, what we need is more licensed skydivers. This program is designed to promote the sport through retention. In response to that statement, is there anything we can do to help the experienced jumper situation in THA? Without going into the details here, I believe there are several things that would help (which you, Steve and I have discussed before) that I would be glad to share with you again if you think it would be beneficial. Thanks again for your continued commitment to the sport and I am really looking forward to getting the season started in THA soon.Blue Skies, Jason Waller Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerpaul 1 #34 February 24, 2009 QuoteQuoteMan, this might make me get my coach rating back. I have been jumping with newbies for free anyway but I couldn't sign their card. Even with just a coach rating you still cannot sign the card, except for 4 places on the 4-page card. There are two places on the 4-page card that a rigger may sign instead of an I. There are two places on the 4-page card that a pilot may sign instead of an I. All other items require an Instructor signature & license #. . (I wanted to discuss this in a PM before posting, but you no longer seem to accept them.) I've asked HQ about this and got an interesting reply. They said that the initialing requirements on most of the card called for an Instructor to be in full compliance with the ISP. Then they went on to say that compliance with the ISP isn't required; compliance with the ISP is optional. For all practical purposes, they were only interested that a rated Instructor signs the final qualifying signature. That Instructor has the responsibility to verify that the other sections were initialed by people who the dz accepts as qualified. So, if your dz lets coaches initial sections, that's okay with HQ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #35 February 24, 2009 RWConcepts (see my sig line) has been an ABSOLUTELY FREE - no charge to anybody EVER (and no monetary recompense to the "coaching staff" involved either ) Service of Skydive Delmarva, since 2004. RWConcepts We will each, individually, work with any just "off AFF" (or whatever their student progression program), and sheppard their way through their proficiency card - to their A. Never any charge at all. The only part "unprecedented" that I can possibly see here is that they appear (supposedly) assigned directly to only ONE individual coach, who will exclusively work with that student - exclusively. We do not do that. Nor do I see that for every situation either, necessarily being a true benefit. For instance - what happens if that Coach is not available on-hand for any individual stidents potential (even weekday jump possibility) schedule? Does that mean that the novice/student cannot jump, because their "assigned" coach may not be available? Just another perspective and thought / observation. But to state this is entirely unprecedented is clearly mistaken. Several of us have seen the need to "step up to the plate" for these novices, since the new ISP went into place back when - what '02/'03 or '04 was it? - And developed ABSOLUTELY NO CHARGE to the "student" programs, in an effort to promote student / "up-jumper" progression/retention. FWIW. I do salute the DZ in any case, for making this an (apparently) "official" program, and both promoting/endorsing it accordingly! coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krip 2 #36 February 24, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote The Coach will develop the student's skills until all items on the USPA "A" License proficiency card are completed. Bet they're using the short version of the yellow card though, right? That's really cool. Are coaches donating their jumps, or are they getting paid? Dave We do use the short version so the student will get his free personal Coach for at least 17 jumps. The Student gets the Coach until he receives his "A" License, which may be well after all the requirements, other than jump numbers, are met. Our Coaches have always donated their time. In the past the student paid the Coaches slot, now the DZ picks up the slot. The student's personal Coach is also tasked to contact his Student at least once a week, encourage him to come out, develop a rapport, and make him feel like he is an important part of the skydiving community. The retention rate in skydiving is abysmal. We do not need any more Tandems, what we need is more licensed skydivers. This program is designed to promote the sport through retention. As for the "unprecedented" claim, I do believe that no one as put all the aspects of this program, as described, into play and guaranteed in writing. I do know that there are other DZ's that do offer free coaching, have for many years and I applaud their continuing effort. So, give me a little break for some advertising hype aimed at giving potential students an incentive to get their license. Mike Mullins AttaboyR.i.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #37 February 24, 2009 Quote wish something like that was around when I was getting started it was! ...Skydive Delmarva's (and yes, in writing - as has been published on our website, as well as local / on-DZ available materials) program has been active and available, in place now, for over 4 seasons. Some DZO's apparently, just do a better job of "PR" with their programs than others, and/or receive higher profile / recognition when they do it is all. Not taking anything away from this program at all. In fact I encourage and am applauding it! Way to go, Mike! Just pointing it out is all. I find it interesting all the chatter of how people will now (or say they will) go out of their way to patronize / support this DZ as a result. I applaud that too! Mike - if you find that people's endorsements here as such, can be proven further quantifiable or substantiated with your program - on a personal note, I'd like to ask you to share that with me. Although I can attest to some actual direct retention correlation results - having un (directly) related up-jumpers come out of the woodwork and say they would in turn also p\go out of their way to patronize you over another DZ - I'm afraid I've not (yet) seen that substantiated. Of course though at Delmarva - - we've only got a slow Twin Otter (and a 182), as compared as well to someone else's extremely fast, King Air! Again all... Just FWIW. Maybe I can hope to see more of you-all too, at Delmarva this season as well? If you do come out, please - make sure you introduce yourselves. As otherwise, up until now - I've still it seems somehow, apparently been missing you! Sounds like a great program Mike. Congratulations, and best of wishes and luck with yours. My (proverbial) hat, is off to you. Blue Skies, -Grantcoitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyhawke 0 #38 February 24, 2009 Wow! This is wonderful to read. I wish all dzo's thought like you! I was lucky to have a good friend take me through my coach jumps and at her own cost I might add. Thank You Kara! I don't know how to make your Jump Buddy program a global one but it sure is needed. Thank You for taking a big step and absorbing the expense to promote MENTORING Students! I know you will be successful in developing many skillful and knowledgeable fun jumpers who will then in turn become Coaches and Instructors. And I sincerely hope other dzo's reading this are inspired to incorporate a Mentoring program as well!"It is our choices that show what we truly are far more than our abilities." - A. Dumbledore Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
michaelmullins 77 #39 February 24, 2009 Quote RWConcepts (see my sig line) has been an ABSOLUTELY FREE - no charge to anybody EVER (and no monetary recompense to the "coaching staff" involved either ) Service of Skydive Delmarva, since 2004. RWConcepts We will each, individually, work with any just "off AFF" (or whatever their student progression program), and sheppard their way through their proficiency card - to their A. Never any charge at all. The only part "unprecedented" that I can possibly see here is that they appear (supposedly) assigned directly to only ONE individual coach, who will exclusively work with that student - exclusively. We do not do that. Nor do I see that for every situation either, necessarily being a true benefit. For instance - what happens if that Coach is not available on-hand for any individual stidents potential (even weekday jump possibility) schedule? Does that mean that the novice/student cannot jump, because their "assigned" coach may not be available? Just another perspective and thought / observation. But to state this is entirely unprecedented is clearly mistaken. Several of us have seen the need to "step up to the plate" for these novices, since the new ISP went into place back when - what '02/'03 or '04 was it? - And developed ABSOLUTELY NO CHARGE to the "student" programs, in an effort to promote student / "up-jumper" progression/retention. FWIW. I do salute the DZ in any case, for making this an (apparently) "official" program, and both promoting/endorsing it accordingly! Grant, Since you invited us to your website I did go there and found your page "AFF to A License and Recurrency Coaching" at http://www.skydivedelmarva.com/alicense.html It states: There are two jumps on the proficiency card that require a coach.... Coached Jump Seats, Gear, Packing & Coach $105 If You Jump Your Own Gear $85 Our "Jump Buddy" Program Seats, Gear, Packing & Coach $49 (no charge for coach) To answer your question about whether the student can jump with other Coaches or only his "personal" Coach, the student can indeed receive free coaching from any Coach when is personal Coach is not available or the Coach would like for him to jump with another Coach to broaden his experience. His personally assigned Coach is simply the "lead" Coach who is responsible for making sure he gets his license and becomes a part of the skydiving community. And, as stated in my previous post: "As for the "unprecedented" claim, I do believe that no one as put all the aspects of this program, as described, into play and guaranteed in writing. I do know that there are other DZ's that do offer free coaching, have for many years and I applaud their continuing effort. So, give me a little break for some advertising hype aimed at giving potential students an incentive to get their license." I applaud you for giving free Coach jumps at your DZ and I am not trying to play "who does more for who and who did it the earliest" but since you are giving free coach jumps perhaps you should change your website to reflect it. I guess I will still claim the "Jump Buddy" program is unprecedented as I have not found a site yet that makes it clear to their students that they will receive a free coach on each and every jump until they receive their "A" License and put it in their price list. Keep up your good work. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micduran 0 #40 February 24, 2009 Quote Quote RoamingDZ trip??? I would be up for that. It would have to be in the summer. And on a weekend when the King Air is there And I have my coach's rating. Be patient with the faults of others; they have to be patient with yours. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #41 February 24, 2009 As I stated - some DZO's clearly, just do a better job of their publicizing and PR! That section which you quote - is an option, for those students (or novices) who wish to choose the services of the DZ School. However, it is NOT applicable to anyone within, or utilizing the RWConcepts program. The 2 jumps in particular (out of as noted, a total of 17 minimum), which I think are being depicted as "requiring (rated - which I am) coaches" are the A-lic check-dive, and the "low-pass" H&P. For whatever their reasons - some students do wish to choose one of their earlier AFF JM's to do that for them, which is THEIR OPTION, and when they do - you are right, this is their disclosed charge for doing that. For the record, whenever I still with them, personally (or with any of our RWConcepts staff - be they coach or higher rated or not) do either of these jumps - the ONLY "fee" any novice will ever pay is strictly just their own slot (standard jump ticket price only). Obviously if they are renting gear, that is another matter entirely - and I have no even (direct) knowledge of that. Again - I absolutely applaud you for your program! And, for so clearly, directly and succinctly outlining and publicizing it!! No, I too, am certainly not looking to get into any sort of pissing match over who has done what more, or longer or whatever. Clearly Mike - YOU would "win" against me anyway, in any related category, hands down. So, will I "give you a little break for some advertising hype aimed at giving potential students an incentive to get their license." ? - Absolutely! Have at it!! Again - I'm not looking to take away ANYTHING from your program in any way at all! No intent to "hijack". Simply educate (some) who seem to think this (or granted - merely "similar" --- how's that?) has never ever existed somehow out there, anywhere, before. For the record - again - we do the same at Delmarva. That's all. You're right though - Our DZO has not been so good about making that probably (upon our website and/or elsewhere) IMHO either - as clear, as he probably could. You use the word guarantee as well. - Something we also do not do (or use). I don't guarantee it (or anything, actually). Only that it is and option. Quote Keep up your good work. Ditto. Thank you. Blue Skies! -Grantcoitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #42 February 25, 2009 Awesome , awesome , awesome,,,nothing is better than paying it forward..... smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #43 February 25, 2009 Great ! Here is a positive thread and you spend energy throwing cold water on it...Get off your dead ass and do something positive for christs sake,,,quit whinning about technicalities,,,lets spread the love ! smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #44 February 25, 2009 Hat off to you Mike. I'll stop in for a jump if I'm ever out that way, and heck maybe I'll hit ya up for a job sometime! ---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccurley 0 #45 February 25, 2009 Quote The retention rate in skydiving is abysmal. We do not need any more Tandems, what we need is more licensed skydivers. Sad because it's so trueWatch my video Fat Women http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWkEky8GoI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keithbar 1 #46 February 25, 2009 Quote Quote RoamingDZ trip??? I would be up for that. It would have to be in the summer. because mike's dz has a SWIMMING POOL! yeah. I'd be up for that too I've been meaning to get over that way for years. I jump his plane every year at richmond but hell he's paved the runway and become a bod member since i was actually AT WTS. let's make it happen guys I'll bring jello shots i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #47 February 25, 2009 Great incentive Mike! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lauraliscious 0 #48 February 25, 2009 Quote RoamingDZ trip??? I'd be up for that too. Sounds like an awesome program Mike!!! I sure wish there had been something like this when I was on student status. I almost quit the sport at 17 jumps due to lack of direction in getting my license. Enemiga Rodriguez, PMS #369, OrFun #25, Team Dirty Sanchez #116, Pelt Head #29, Muff #4091 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #49 February 25, 2009 Awesome program Mike! Now for all of us who wish other dzo's would do the same, I have a challenge. Make a personal commitment to be a mentor to one new skydiver this year - not just to the A license level either. Jump with them on your own ticket. Give 'em your phone number and encourage them to call you with questions when they aren't on the dz; if you don't know the answer to their question, direct them to someone who does. Help to integrate them into the dz's social scene. You don't need a rating. If you have a D license, talk to the S&TA and get "blessed" to jump with pre-A licensed who are cleared to self-supervise. If you don't have a D license, start talking to them early in their progression and start jumping with them once they have the card stamped. The only caveat would be to not "give away" the pre-A license required "coach" jumps if doing so will cause bad feelings between you and the DZO - but there's nothing stopping you from giving the newbie back the money that you were paid for the jump, is there? Not only will you be helping to retain new jumpers at your dz, you also might make a new friend. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
x46255 0 #50 February 25, 2009 This is definitely a great program. I started skydiving in May of last year at Skydive Delmarva and actually passed through West Tennessee Skydiving on a road trip in June. Mike made me feel extremely welcome as a fresh off of AFF student with only 8 jumps and of the four jumps that I made while I was there, both a videographer and an instructor jumped with me for free on two of my jumps. It was an absolutely great experience and I will definitely come to visit again the next time I am anywhere near Memphis. As someone that has taken advantage of both the RW Concepts free coaching and jumped at West Tennessee Skydiving as a student, I must say both places were terrific. I wish that I could say the same for another dropzone that I visited while I was progressing where I found myself cast aside and struggling to get on a load, let alone find someone to jump with. I applaud the new program and particularly the fact that you are paying the coaches slot...something that I don't believe Delmarva does...the RW Concepts Crew is awesome and goes above and beyond by providing free coaching while also paying their own slot...my hat goes off to both programs for their dedication to the sport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
