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Would your DZ let you use a Baser system to skydive.

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I posted the following over on basejumper.com and on BLiNC in response to an interview w/ Sonic. Figured I might as well add to this thread:

Links:
http://blincmagazine.com/forum/original-base-board/33235-baser-discussion.html
http://www.basejumper.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2902322#2902322

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Here's my response to the interview and the subject in general. Note, the following are my personal opinions on the matter. I have never met Sonic, never spoken to Sonic, nor do I have a personal war-waging vendetta against him. He seems a likable enough guy, but my personal opinion is that he is not suited, nor has he earned the privilege to manufacture or market BASE gear.

For all intensive purposes, he has a rather brilliant business model. He's essentially an order-taker with a direct line to JumpShack who manufactures the rig using a TSO'd wonderhog harness beneath an otherwise 'anything-goes' container and slaps a TSO'd reserve on the front. The only thing stopping me from personally ripping apart one of my skydiving rigs and doing the same is that I lack an FAA Master Rigger's ticket. I could get someone governmentally qualified to do this for me, and for far cheaper than one of his rigs.

Why cheaper? [I'll get to why that's important in a moment...] Because he's using a skydiving gear manufacturer and I'm not. I saw the same thing a few years ago with the reverse-engineering of a $250 (retail) speed-flying harness that turned into a laughable $600-800 ground-launching harness. The difference? The former was made in South Korea (designed by a Korean paragliding company) and the latter by an FAA-certified parachute manufacturer. Not hard to guess who has the higher labor costs or why.

Many people keep asking or pointing out that Morpheus, Apex, Asylum have not TSO'd a rig or have not sought this 'innovation'. First, a TSO rating runs at least $40k and upwards of $60k. Granted, Sonic didn't have to TSO the gear, he essentially licensed an existing TSO. Thus, the reality for any of the long-standing BASE gear manufacturers is that their [presumed] already slim margins get even slimmer when they're licensing an existing TSO rating or are at least paying some royalty for the use of it. May not even be that simple... They'd probably have to directly order a manufactured harness to incorporate into their rigs. Beyond that--I can only speculate on the liability--I'll bet someone goes in on an FAA-certified rig and the manufacturer is looking at a legal shitstorm. Someone goes in on a BaseR, JumpShack looks fucked to me. They've got a legal, certified standing from the FAA in the square of their lower back. Might as well be a bulls-eye. Any of our long-standing BASE manufacturers are pleasantly uninsured, pleasantly unregulated.

Beyond that--and I've only talked to a couple of people on this--I'll wager the decision to not seek a TSO rating is largely philosophical in nature. BASE gear has always been somewhat difficult to come by, or if not difficult...at least qualified. For good reason. I won't say that Sonic doesn't use discretion--because I don't know--but he does market his course as an FJC. An FJC for what? It's the same term Apex, Morpheus, Nitro, Snake River, Johnny Utah, Miles, Splatula and Asylum use. But is it the same syllabus? I'll wager 'no' given that Sonic's course is designed for skydiving in preparation for BASE, not actual BASE, so not a BASE FJC. Leave that to Miles, at least.

In the meantime, what's the big deal of gear being more accessible? To me, the problem is that it's marketed to any A-licensed dickhead, whether the marketing is that explicit or not. Face it, "you can take a BASE rig out of a plane" is what this is designed for. All too often, we see "how do I get into BASE? 150 skydives and gear is so expensive!" where we should hear "how do I get into BASE and not kill myself in the process?" Budgets are more important than your ass? It would seem so. I worry about the jumpers this rig may attract, or if not attract, the jumpers that will too easily put themselves in a position to fuck themselves up, die, or more selfishly, make it more difficult for me to jump. Yes, I said it. I'm that selfish. You have to earn the ability to fuck shit up for me. I do not care about your life if you don't put forth the effort to save yourself.

On the final point where money is concerned, no, I don't think Sonic is doing this for the cash. Not so much in that he's going to get rich off this, at least. I believe in his ability to support his family, but ultimately, I view it as an outside-BASE entity taking money out of the pockets of those who have earned our business through years of innovation and toiling over sewing machines, not just one leap that makes it easier for us to skydive with BASE gear.

Nothing personal,
-C.

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In response to the original topic, yes, my DZ will let us use the Baser system. We have a course with Sonic and his demo Baser rigs at Skydive The Farm set for June 5-7th. There are 8 slots for the course and 3 are still available. I'll be jumping the system during the course to check it out. :)
Mike

ChutingStar.com

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>In the meantime, what's the big deal of gear being more accessible? To me,
>the problem is that it's marketed to any A-licensed dickhead, whether the
>marketing is that explicit or not.

True, but that's also an issue with elliptical canopies, AAD's, audible altimeters, booties, RDSes etc etc. Any piece of gear out there might be used by someone you consider unworthy/unqualified.

>Budgets are more important than your ass? It would seem so.

That's true of every single part of skydiving and BASE jumping. We all trade off safety for convenience and expense. Heck, sometimes I put thousands of jumps on a skydiving canopy without replacing it, and my first 10 or so BASE jumps were on a ragged out Pursuit 215 with a homemade tail pocket because that's all I could afford.

>I view it as an outside-BASE entity taking money out of the pockets of
>those who have earned our business through years of innovation and toiling over
>sewing machines . . .

Again, that's true of every company out there. When I started out in BASE, most of the companies you mention didn't exist. They all came into being and started "taking money out of the pockets" of people like Mo and Marta, who were two people (out of many) who spent years hunched over sewing machines cranking out the first BASE rigs.

But overall, is that a bad thing?

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>In the meantime, what's the big deal of gear being more accessible? To me,
>the problem is that it's marketed to any A-licensed dickhead, whether the
>marketing is that explicit or not.

True, but that's also an issue with elliptical canopies, AAD's, audible altimeters, booties, RDSes etc etc. Any piece of gear out there might be used by someone you consider unworthy/unqualified.



Well, I talked to Sonic last night and actually, that [25 jump wonders] won't be the case...or at least he's requiring 100 skydives before you can purchase gear or take his course. (...Funny how the numbers seem to be coming lower and lower. I remember when it was 200, then 150...now a new standard is 100.)

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>Budgets are more important than your ass? It would seem so.

That's true of every single part of skydiving and BASE jumping. We all trade off safety for convenience and expense. Heck, sometimes I put thousands of jumps on a skydiving canopy without replacing it, and my first 10 or so BASE jumps were on a ragged out Pursuit 215 with a homemade tail pocket because that's all I could afford.



That's not true for all of us. Given your desires for a BSR around canopy downsizing, I'm kind of surprised you'd make this defense. "Making that many jumps on this big canopy before I can jump this small canopy is gonna be expensive" Can you actually defend that?

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>I view it as an outside-BASE entity taking money out of the pockets of
>those who have earned our business through years of innovation and toiling over
>sewing machines . . .

Again, that's true of every company out there. When I started out in BASE, most of the companies you mention didn't exist. They all came into being and started "taking money out of the pockets" of people like Mo and Marta, who were two people (out of many) who spent years hunched over sewing machines cranking out the first BASE rigs.

But overall, is that a bad thing?



How many of them started BASE businesses--especially teaching--when they had 11 BASE jumps?

Look, I finally talked to Sonic last night. And as I said to him then and in a final Email this morning, my apologies for not talking to him first. I should've done that and when I realized it, I gave him a call. Still, the areas where I speculated and was wrong were not my major concerns. My core opinions on the matter remain unchanged in their foundation.

I won't belabor the point and carry on with any more drivel. The fact of the matter is BASE remains unregulated, so I can just fuck-off with my opinions and you're free to do that which you want.

The only thing I'll ask of any new, aspiring BASE jumper is this: Do you really want to learn about BASE from someone with 11 BASE jumps from 2 objects?

-C.

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>That's not true for all of us.

That's great. I'm glad you have all the money you need. Not everyone does.

> "Making that many jumps on this big canopy before I can jump this small
> canopy is gonna be expensive" Can you actually defend that?

I don't have to! I've seen it at least a dozen times here on DZ.com. It is indeed an issue.

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The only thing I'll ask of any new, aspiring BASE jumper is this: Do you really want to learn about BASE from someone with 11 BASE jumps from 2 objects?



This is exactly what it all boils down to. Regardless of his system, this is the point that gets all the folks riled up.
1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

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>That's not true for all of us.

That's great. I'm glad you have all the money you need. Not everyone does.



"That's not true for all of us" wasn't directed at having the money to do whatever we want. I was talking about budget in relation to cutting corners instead of investing the time (and sometimes money) to be better prepared.

-C.

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I guess base has really progressed when a guy with 11 student base jumps can start giving base instruction, and a guy with 1 base jump gives him a raving review.

I don't care how many videos that Sonic has watched, or how many skydives he has, or how much he has talked to actual base jumpers. He is unqualified to be even talking about base jumping, much less instructing people on it. Forget about the rig that is nothing more than a copy of all the other 2 pin rigs on the market; it is irrelevant to the issue of a completely inexperienced base jumper trying to re-invent himself as a base instructor.
(PS: I've know Sonic since 99' through swooping, something he is highly qualified to instruct in)

Would you let a guy with 11 skydives teach skydiving, even if he was a world champion paraglider? Of course not. the fact is Sonic knows as much about base as a 15 year old Mountain Dew addict who has watched 1000 videos on youtube. Pretty much nothing because you don't learn about an activity by watching, you learn about it by doing.

Sonic: Leave base jumping to base jumpers. Better yet, take a couple years and go out and make several hundred jumps from dozens of different objects, you know, actual base jumps. Thats not asking much when you are playing with peoples lives. You don't know shit and other people are going to pay the price for ego and $$$.

Here is what I imagine an interview with Sonic about this would sound like:

Regis: So Sonic how many base jumps do you have?

Sonic: 11, but they were 11 really hard jumps. Everyone knows that NRGB and Perrine are advanced sites. If I was aloud to I would jump a really tall cliff because thats high enough to be an actual skydive, and I really do know something about that.

Regis: So with these 11 jumps you felt experienced enough to not only design gear, but to create an instruction course?

Sonic: Absolutely! You see I have over 5000 skydives, and when you skydive you use a parachute. When you base jump you use a parachute. See?

Regis: See what?

Sonic: Its just a parachute whether you skydive it or base jump it.

Regis: Are you a skydiving instructor?

Sonic: I have over 5000 skydives.

Regis: OK. So I understand that you are an FAA certified master rigger?

Sonic: Absolutely!

Regis: How many rigs have you personally sewed together, and jumped?

Sonic: Well, none, unless you count the old Racer that I made a 3 pin bridle for. Thats why I got the people at Jump Shack to build them for me. Its not really a base rig, its just a 50 year old skydiving harness with an old belly wart reserve. But hey, a parachute is a parachute when you're skydiving.

Regis: You mean base jumping?

Sonic: Whatever, same thing, still with a parachute, right?

Regis: Uh, yeah. So will you ever make a base jump off anything other than a simple bridge?

Sonic: Absolutely not. Thats illegal and I'm not about all of that sneaking around stuff. For myself and my target customers its all about legal skybasing, err parachuting. You know, jumping.

Regis: So if a cliff, building, or antenna were legal you would jump it?

Sonic: Absolutely not. I've only got 11 jumps from bridges, are you crazy? Besides, I'm not aloud to jump that stuff; you could get really hurt or killed doing that

Regis: But you are willing to instruct students on how to do just that?

Sonci: Absolutely! You know the old saying, those who can do, those who can't teach?

Regis: Uh yeah. So do you see any kind of credibility problem with the fact that you don't and never want to actually go out and base jump?

Sonic: Absolutely not. I have over 5000 skydives.


BASE610

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>He is unqualified to be even talking about BASE jumping . . .

I hope you will report him to the authorities post-haste!

Every time something new appears, people are going to bitch. The Sorcerer sucks. And Marta doesn't wear a helmet! What an unsafe, unfit-to-be-teaching person. And pins on a BASE rig? PINS? BASE rigs use velcro. Hello. Clearly that manufacturer is completely clueless.

I think it's great he's making a BASE rig that can be jumped legally from aircraft. It will give people who want to do aircraft jumps with a rig they prefer a legal option to do so. And Sonic will continue to build them, and likely continue to teach while other people complain. It's the way of things I suppose.

>Sonic: Leave BASE jumping to BASE jumpers.

And leave manufacturing to the experts, and teaching to the people willing to do it.

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Coming entirely from an uninformed perspective;
Other than the lack of teaching zero wind exits (and I understand the importance of that critical component), what part of the course is considered "wrong/inappropriate/lacking?"

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>I'm willing to teach a lot of things. Guess that makes me qualified.

Eventually, if you understand it, it might.

When I started teaching skydiving I had a little over 100 jumps. In retrospect I didn't know my ass from my elbow, and relied heavily on other JM's with far more experience than I had. I learned pretty quickly, though, and became an OK instructor after a year or so.

Was the guy jumping down the way with 2300 jumps better than me? Did he know more than me? Was he a more expert jumper? Could he turn more points than I could, track better, be more aware in freefall? Absolutely. What was the difference? I was willing to spend my weekends teaching and putting students out.

There are better instructors (and better BASE jumpers) out there than Sonic. If they start their own courses - good for them. If not, Sonic will probably continue to do what few other people can be bothered to do. Good for him.

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