Piloting and piloting

[I3uller 0]

I assume there are a few pilots in here considering the close relationship with aviation that skydiving has. My question for you is, have you found that your aircraft piloting experiences make you a better canopy pilot? I think the control inputs in aircraft and canopies are very similar minus the fact that you can't power out of bad situations. For all the hype everyone built up, my first jump landing seemed much the same as landing a Cessna. Just replace the yolk with toggles. Now things like 180 front riser turns feels almost exactly the same as doing a 180 auto rotation in a helicopter. Any of you guys notice the similarities or have benefited from your aircraft piloting when it comes to canopy piloting?

[firstime 0]

I think I have seen this discussed here before but didnt really comment, Im sure they share some things with the exception you have an engine for an aborted landing

[tombuch 0]

Yes. Everything you mentioned does make sense. Piloting an airplane is very much like piloting a parachute. I'm also a glider pilot, and the similarities are even closer.

The other thing that transfers really well is a pilots focus on safety and procedures, and a philosophy of always leaving yourself an out. I find the mental side of skydiving and piloting aircraft are exactly the same.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[EvilEagle 0]

Yes, agree with all above. The faster my canopy lands, the more normal it looks!

[I3uller 0]

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Yes, agree with all above. The faster my canopy lands, the more normal it looks!

Hahahahah I'm dying over here. Thats hilarious. Oh and in addition to what I said about the 180 auto in a helicopter...swooping is like that combined with a run on landing. And those are fun fun fun and scary scary scary....pretty much the same as swooping.

[bfilarsky 0]

Abso-fucking-lutely. I feel pretty confident in my canopy skillz from my flying skillz. Its just another wing. Flying an airplane is flying a wing. Flying a canopy is flying a wing. Just different controls. Same idea though - Angle of Attack is key. I was completely lost on canopy control until I moved down to something smaller than a boat, and they fly just like an airplane now.

To be honest, power complicates things. People have the impression that it simplifies things. Sure, you can do a go-around, but the energy equation starts to get a lot more complicated. There's a reason 14 year old's can solo gliders, but you have to be 16 to solo a powered aircraft.

[quade 3]

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There's a reason 14 year old's can solo gliders, but you have to be 16 to solo a powered aircraft.

That doesn't have anything to do with how "complicated" adding a bit of power is. Being towed is far more "complicated" than shoving in a bit of throttle.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jeffmullins 0]

I feel my canopy flying experience made me a better pilot when I first started flying. The ability to visually judge distances, closure, decent rates, etc. that I learned flying my canopy have helped enormously throughout the numerous phases of Navy flight school.

[I3uller 0]

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There's a reason 14 year old's can solo gliders, but you have to be 16 to solo a powered aircraft.

That doesn't have anything to do with how "complicated" adding a bit of power is. Being towed is far more "complicated" than shoving in a bit of throttle.

I don't know man...shoving in a bit of throttle can be more complicated than that. Say for instance you're rate of closure is too fast in a helicopter and you "shove in a bit of throttle". Uh oh....now you are in a settling with power situation which is bad news bears. That plus all the added things you have to monitor and do to ensure your engine will continue working.

[quade 3]

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Say for instance you're rate of closure is too fast in a helicopter and you "shove in a bit of throttle".

Oh FFS. Helicopters don't fly . . . (I'm sure you know the rest).

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[I3uller 0]

..they beat the air into submission. Lol. Ridiculous machines.

[quade 3]

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..they beat the air into submission. Lol. Ridiculous machines.

I was going for; " . . . they're just so ugly the Earth is repelled by them."

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[heavydude 0]

Interestingly enough it seems that if you learn powered flight first (like I did) unpowered is more difficult, you dont have the crutch of being able to add power on final to make the runway. Thats what I found out when flying gliders/sailplanes; it took some getting used to. Kids that start w/ gliders have a real advantage learning Airplane operations later.
As far as transitioning from gliders to Canopy it was cake; I flew a pattern as usual just as hundreds of times before when I did FJC. The critical phase is of course the flare, just like planes and gliders it took a while to get timing right. (replace bounce w/ PLF here)

[kallend 1,623]

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There's a reason 14 year old's can solo gliders, but you have to be 16 to solo a powered aircraft.

That doesn't have anything to do with how "complicated" adding a bit of power is. Being towed is far more "complicated" than shoving in a bit of throttle.

Agreed - I have power and glider licenses and being towed is much more challenging than using the throttle.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mr_music11 0]

Although I was told that I should NOT rely on some of the skills that I learned in private pilot training/single engine/small aircraft, I found sooo many of the principals the same when it came time to canopy flight. So, I kept my mouth shut but my mind open and found that the skills DID translate to my canopy flying ability. I definately have more confidence in my canopy skills becuz of my experience with small aircraft. Blues/soft landings.

If flying is piloting a plane.. then swimming is driving a boat. I know why birds sing.. I skydive.

[AFFI 0]

One time I was training this guy and when I started on canopy piloting he said “look son, I land jets on aircraft carriers at night, no training like this is necessary” – after his first landing he was willing to listen to a block or two of instruction…

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[skybill 18]

Hi Mike,
Funny you should mention that, Some guy with thousands of hrs flying all kinds of airplanes comes out to our model airplane flying site with the same attitude. We tried to tell him but he thought he had it wired. The plane got about 2 seconds of airtime before the thump. Flying an airplane from outside the cockpit is a lot different from flying from inside the cockpit!!!!

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[I3uller 0]

I tried flying an RC helicopter and gave up. When it turns and faces you and everything is backwards...ya forget that.

[tombuch 0]

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One time I was training this guy and when I started on canopy piloting he said “look son, I land jets on aircraft carriers at night, no training like this is necessary”

That's pretty nuts. As a military jet pilot he already gets regular training on ejection, parachute flight, and survival. He has many of the skills needed for civilian canopy flight, and lots of those skills are easily transferable. BUT, flying a round parachute after an ejection is a whole lot different than flying a square and navigating safely to a preselected landing zone. That guy didn't need the full on canopy control course, be he did need a refresher and "differences" training.

When I deal with pilots, especially those who routinely fly with emergency parachutes, it's important that they understand how sport training differs from survival training. They often appreciate knowing how our training will apply to an emergency, and how it won't. And it helps when they understand that 4,800 jumps ago I was flying military surplus round T-10's.

I really like teaching pilots, even military jet pilots who land at night on carrier. Really, I do.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[kallend 1,623]

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I tried flying an RC helicopter and gave up. When it turns and faces you and everything is backwards...ya forget that.

Do it all the time!
www.iit.edu/~kallend/heli1.jpg

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Balu 1]

When i started skydiving i already had about 500 hours on gliders and another 500 on powered aircraft. So in theory it was all clear, and in real life it was nothing absolutely new. Though it needed some time to become a better than average canopy pilot, I guess I was much faster than most of the other skydivers which are no pilots. When I started to really learn how to control my canopy, my experience gave me the chance for a deep understanding of how i works. However, this learning process is far from being finished, assumed that this can ever be.

1300 Sprünge, 100er Wingsuit Formation, viele nette Menschen kennengelernt, keine Unfälle. Schön war's!

[EvilEagle 0]

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One time I was training this guy and when I started on canopy piloting he said “look son, I land jets on aircraft carriers at night, no training like this is necessary” – after his first landing he was willing to listen to a block or two of instruction…

Sounds like that guy was a jackass. The guys at my DZ didn't know what I did until they asked. (then they got a flyby...)

Besides, we all know that carrier pilots have it the easiest - no flare, no crosswind, no finesse...

[bfilarsky 0]

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There's a reason 14 year old's can solo gliders, but you have to be 16 to solo a powered aircraft.

That doesn't have anything to do with how "complicated" adding a bit of power is. Being towed is far more "complicated" than shoving in a bit of throttle.

You have a point about being towed - I'll give you that. Power does complicate things quite a bit though, in that both power and pitch both control airspeed and altitude, so you really have to work the 2 controls in sync with one another to get the desired effect. From my experience teaching powered flying, I've found the throttle to be a bit more of a complication for students than you would think.