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MADPROPS

would you let me jump a smaller chute at your dz?

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Check this out, I know, I know. That aint me, I would never do that.....right??

-Jumper had 400 jumps
- Exit weight 205 pounds
- 3rd jump with new elliptical 150 sq ft canopy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR6oQtWItwU



The Sky is NOT the Limit, the Dirt Is!!

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alot of people missed the point so ill say it again. i was asking if me speed riding and foot launching a 135 all winter long would make you think twice about letting me jump a smaller wing. and why you would let me or why you would not let me.



I wouldn't let you. The thing of it is, I don't see anyone being able to prove to me they're "okay" on a high wing loading with low jump numbers. Just because you can foot launch it all winter doesn't matter. Just because you can stand up all your landings on your existing canopy doesn't matter. Because those aren't the skills that'll keep you from pounding it in on a low turn in those X, Y or Z skydiving situations you're going to face. Jump after jump after jump teaches you to deal with that stuff.

You're already at a 1.2 wing loading which is pretty aggressive. I'd take you off the Monarch and put you on a snappier semi-elliptical at the same wing loading for awhile.

If you wanted to continue to downsize aggressively, I'd expect to see you at the DZ all the time racking up a lot of currency. Then we could talk about a 150 or moving to a full elliptical.

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Hey Darcy.
Not gonna 'hide' who this is - it's Nate from Innisfail.

I am in no position to give you any advice on canopie except this:

I've been in the exact position/head space you are in (aside from the speed riding experience).

Everybody wants to fly a 'hot' canopy. It looks like fun right? Everybody also wants to participate in big ways or fly head down too. Also looks like fun.

HOWEVER - nothing but jump numbers and time in the air can get any of us to the point where we are ready to take it to the next level.

This sport is all about patience and gaining experience before going to the next big exciting thing.

The guys on the DZ with the numbers and experience are an invaluable resource. Listen to them. They're not talking down to you. They're not insulting you or saying that you don't have a clue. They're trying to keep you and everyone else on the DZ safe.

If our DZO or safety officer says he doesn't think you're ready to downsize, trust him and make an effort to build your skills and demonstrate that you really do have the skills necessary to go to the next level. Simply saying 'I can do it' isn't going to convince anyone. Prove it. Ask them to watch you fly and listen when they offer advice or coaching.

I keep reminding myself that accidents are exactly that - no one does something intending to snap both their femurs but it happens and could usually be prevented if the person would just slow down a little and recognize that you can't do 50, 100, 150, 500 jumps and expect to just be able to do everything as hot as the next guy. Just because he can rock a blind man on landing doesn't mean we all can.

Anyway.

See you at the DZ.

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Hello Darcy, I am Adam. Its too bad that you couldn't be in on the Canopy Camp at Eden this spring. I had 500 jumps before I took Doug's course and found that I still had a lot to learn. In this sport its easy to focus on the freefall and the fun that we have. Unfortunately, canopy control is the BIGGEST area that we lose focus on. Yet, stats will show that it is by FAR the #1 killer in our sport. This is why I've organized Doug to come up this spring. First and foremost, to involve as many as I can, and also to provide a coaching aspect so we can bring skills back to our DZ.

What does it mean to you? According to the poll, overwhelmingly, stay on your current canopy. Nate raised several good points. We're here to guide you, not hinder you. I've seen your canopy control last year, if you can show good control this year, we can work to downsize you safely. As other have said, canopy collisions only take 2. It doesn't matter if its an Otter, Caravan, C206, C182 DZ.... all you need is one person making a small mistake and colliding with ONE other person for it to become really bad.

I know you've seen a lot of feedback, and I hope that I'm coming across as being a friend/coach not someone to hold you back.

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i was just thinking going back to a 175 would be boring with out fronts on landing but many people at my dz will yell at me if i`m on my fronts Blush



Did I just read this right? You're talking about being on fronts with 50 jumps? On a 175?? I haven't researched any of your old posts, but to me I first read this and thought "troll" or you were just really trying for a laugh.

You're already decently loaded for somebody with 50 jumps on your 175. Stay where you are, downsize appropriately, and hopefully you won't end up battered or broken by doing it the more conservative way. (and the right way, IMHO, which I know doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things.) I just pray to God, as I've said in other posts in similar topics here over the years, that if you already have made the decision in your head that you're going with a 135, that you don't kill anybody else in the process. No bueno, dude. :(
Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

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Ive got several hundred foot/ski launches on wings down to a 12m(129 sq ft) gin nano, almost 200 skydives mostly on wings comparable to a sabre 2 150 loaded at 1.33 which I downsized to very quickly, and just a dozen or so BASE jumps on a Blackjack 260. I have also ground launched a stiletto 135 and 150 about 100 times, so have a tiny bit of experience with ellipticals and how they fly, and can help explain the main difference between these speedwings and skydiving wings and why you should not downsize so rapidly to an elliptical platform.

There is absolutely no similarity between similarly sized speedwings and skydiving wings other than they both fly through the air. The recovery arcs on speedwings are borderline non existent. I can whip a 360 on my 12m nano flying at 13000ft loaded at 1.667 at under 100 feet and not crater into the ground. There is no skydiving canopy that has this short of a recovery arc and that is the huge difference between even semi elliptical canopy's and speedwings. Everyone says 'oh, a stiletto has a really short recovery arc' but compared to what? It is compared to the other high performance super elliptical canopys on the market that would attract the same customer base of experienced jumper, and is not compared to big boxy canopys like the monarch.

My advice would be you could definitely go to a sabre 2 170, fly it for a little bit and will know by your landings if you're ready for a 150, but definitely stop there for a long time if you even go down that fast. The Sabre 2 150 is a really good canopy to learn to swoop on in my opinion, and no one should be learning to swoop on smaller canopy's than this(take with grain of salt though coming from the guy who has never done more than a 180 front riser approach).

Also, flying in traffic is more difficult than just avoiding objects while speedflying; trees dont move, dumbasses under canopy do!

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