Scare Tactic

[DARK 0]

why do you want to downsize but reduce wingloading? what is your reason for not buying a katana at the size you are currently jumping (i imagine you are jumping something along the lines of a pilot or sabre)

one piece of advice on downsizing changing canopies is only to change one thing at a time. assuming your on a pilot or a sabre you are changing size your changing to a fully elliptical canopy and potentially(im not sure if the katana is cross braced) you are changing to a cross braced canopy

even if you dont answer the above which is totally fine

the reason people here dont accept 'well everyone can weigh up the risks and make their own choice and deal with the consequences' is because A) any death or serious injury is bad for the sport B) people who cant fly their canopies properly are dangers to everyone not just themselves

just my opinion as a low number jumper

[format 0]

People DO buy and/or drive VERY dangerous vehicles without proper skills.
Streets are unsafe.

Sky seem pretty safe to me,
inspite these ridiculous attempts to harness natural curiosity.
All that this comunity enjoys/suffers came out of it.

What goes around, comes later.

[CygnusX-1 42]

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(although i would like a katana)

Ok, I haven't read a lot of your posts so you may have stated it in another thread. I think the best way to start off a rational conversation is to answer this one simple question.

Why do you want a Katana?

I'm not going to make this into a multiple choice type of question by giving my opinions about why someone would want a katana. I and probably everyone else here would like to know what it is about a katana that makes it the perfect canopy for you. Tell us exactly why you think a katana is a better choice for you than any other canopy.

If you don't want to hear scare tactics or generalizations about what could happen, then we need to know what it is about your chosen canopy or your chosen size that makes you think the canopy is right for you.

[billvon 2,380]

>the place you notice it the most is with regards to canopies and downsizing
> and stuff like that...
>the "you-will-kill-yourself"/"see-you-in-the-incidents-forum" speech
>annoys the hell out of me.

It comes about because some of have watched friends of ours kill themselves doing stupid stuff (like jumping canopies they're not ready for.) Feel free to ignore all advice, instruction and product manuals if you like. But if you are so sensitive that you can't bear any criticism when you do that - skydiving may not be for you.

>Positivity and encouragement is the key...

That works very well sometimes. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes the only thing that works is negativity. Sometimes (all too often) the only thing that works is a broken femur or worse.

==============
"I want to downsize Mr DZSO"

"Ok, little Timmy, i dont think that you are ready for it, BUT here are some drills/tasks/exercises i would like to see you complete first"

"Complete them with no issues and then we can try one size down"

. . .

"Hey, I just bought a Stiletto 107 Mr. DZSO!"

"Did you finish the drills I gave you?"

"I stood up that Sabre 150 on EVERY JUMP except one!"

"How many jumps did you make on it?"

"Three."

"Well, why don't you finish the drills first?"

"I would, but I'm on a ten minute call and I had to give the Sabre back and I'll be REALLY REALLY careful! See ya!"

What's the next line from the DZSO?

[airtwardo 6]

What's the next line from the DZSO?




~Watch, Wallet & Car Keys are MINE!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[azureriders 0]

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if they want to jump at another dz... let them... its not your or my dz that will be in the headlines if the shite hits the fan... the responsibility is out of your hands...

It may not be your dz, or his dz, but it is MY sport that will be in the headlines. There has been a lot of talk lately on these forums about the responsibility you speak of. Is it the student's, the instructor's, the DZO's, I mean really, who's responsibility is it. Okay, I will que you in, IT IS MY RESPONSIBILITY, AND YOURS, and I do mean always, no matter what the question, the responsibility is still ours. So, I will continue to use whatever means I can to deter young jumpers from being stupid, and I do encourage you to do the same.

You do seem to be thinking about how to keep people from being stupid, kudos to you for that. However, please do not tell me that it is not my responsibility, because it is. Little Timmy is all my responsibility, simply because he is in my sport, and I dont even know the guy.

[mnealtx 0]

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What's the next line from the DZSO?




~Watch, Wallet & Car Keys are MINE!

I've got a t-shirt like that -

"First ghoul to the crater gets the gear"

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rlucus 0]

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Quote

What's the next line from the DZSO?




~Watch, Wallet & Car Keys are MINE!

I've got a t-shirt like that -

"First ghoul to the crater gets the gear"

Our shirts say on the front:
Skydive Opelika
Buddy Blue's Little DZ

And on the Back:
If you die, we split your gear

[davelepka 4]

As per the intended topic of this post - tellign somebody they may be injured or killed skydiving is not a 'scare tactic' it's the truth.

Telling a kid he'll go blind from beating off too much - that is a scare tactic.

If you disregard the generally accepted guidelines for things like what type of canopy you jump, and at what WL, the result of a mistake while flying that canopy will most likely be severe injury or death.

Somewhere on here there is a thread where people posted their x-rays from when they made their 'mistake'. It really is a shockingly big collection of nasty, nasty x-rays of all sorts of fractures.

Injury or death is what happens. I'm not tyring to scare you.

Beyond that, I'm more interested in your ass-backwards plan for downsizing.

Wl aside, the Katana is a high performance parachute at any size. It is designed to fly fast, turn fast, and dive like a mother. It is a very poor choice for anyone with less than 500 jumps, and even then those jumpers should have been on a structured plan of downszing and training for the lest few hundered jumps. It is not a canopy to be taken lightly.

As far as your plan to lose 40 lbs in order to make the downsize 'sensible', I'm sorry but could you be more full of shit?

You think this course of action proves you're serious? Look friend, if you have 40 lbs to lose, and it never occured to you to lay off the ice cream and cookies until you decieded you wanted a Katana, that does not make you appear 'sensible'.

Like any jumper who ever factored a weight loss into equipment choice, I'll give you this advice - FIRST lose the weight, all of it. SECOND - learn to fly your current canopy at the new weight. LAST - once you are proficient at the new weight, look into moving down one size with the same model canopy.

That is what I call 'sensible'.


Another thing to keep in mind, being a 'bigger' guy, how fast do you think you can run?

If your canopy is faster than you are, you stand a good chance at going down trying to run out a no wind landing. When was the last time you ran at full speed, and went down like a sack of potatoes?

What will happen when you have a late flare, or have to land in a turn to avoid an obstacle or collision? You just took all that extra 'mass' that you have and wound it up to a good speed, how do you think your skeletal system will fare when you hit the ground. Let's face it, more of your body mass is fat than bone, so you'll reach the point where the fat wins the battle much sooner than a guy who is leaner than you are.

Just like the little 100lb. girls have different rules when it comes to canopies and sizes vs. experience, so do the big boys. All of the conventional wisdom about canopies and sizing is based on an 'average' guy, maybe 5' 10", 175 lbs. The further you go in either direction from that height/weight, the more the rules change to suit your 'special circumstances'.

[surfbum5412 0]

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howzit folks...

i have a question... why are people using the "Scare" tactic to try and get others to be safer?
the more someone tells me not to do something, the more i would like to do it... its just not working!

the place you notice it the most is with regards to canopies and downsizing and stuff like that...
the "you-will-kill-yourself"/"see-you-in-the-incidents-forum" speech annoys the hell out of me.

i brought this up to try and find out what other methods would work...

my theory: warn them of the dangers (use personal accounts or experiences if possible) and explain it in detail of what could happen. if they choose not to listen, then atleast you have warned them and its out of your hands.
If they are downsizing too much... set goals for them to acheive first(goals with original canopy before downsizing) (and i dont mean 500 jumps in 3 years type of thing), like 20 jumps within the next 2 months, and goals like landing in a designated area (accuracy), cross-wind/downwind landings... if they demonstrate good skills with setup, and they complete those required tasks with no issues, and it happens to be at jump #200 instead of 500 as 'the canopy chart' suggests, then good on them, and they should be able to downsize one down.
NO going from a 190 to a 150 or less without skipping a step...

Positivity and encouragement is the key... to within your capabilities of course

"What are my capabilites?" ask your instructor/mentor on advice.
I fly a 190 Pilot with a W/L of 1.5 (big boy) and have done so for the last year and a bit. I am confident (not arrogant) in my abilities under canopy. I am comfortable in winds/no wind, crosswind/downwind landings, and i land no my feet within the area i have chosen.
i should be told of the dangers/risks invlolved if i wanted to go from a 190 to a 170.
My personal situation at the moment is that i would load a 170 at 1.6 or so. That puts me out of my comfort zone more than what i would like. so i will lose 40 lbs to bring that W/L down to 1.4, which would be less than my current W/L
the fact that i would be willing to lose 40 lbs should surely, among other things, prove that i am no idiot and that i have thought this through/done my homework and will not be doing anything stupid...

Negativity is a crap tool and i believe its use in the skydiving community is not needed and should not be used...

"I want to downsize Mr DZSO" "Ok, little Timmy, i dont think that you are ready for it, BUT here are some drills/tasks/exercises i would like to see you complete first""Complete them with no issues and then we can try one size down"

"I want to downsize Mr DZSO""Ok little Timmy. I have seen you fly and you are competent""Lets try one size down"

thanks for listening



As humans, we seek more. More challenges, risks and rewards...

...stfu. You sound like a whining girl.