what do you concider a malfunction

[BaronVonBoll 0]

31 one jumps and not cutaway yet. ok but... i've had line twist a break fire on opening, and closed end cells. these I think of as incidental maintenance not malls. how about you guys what is the limit or line between oh shit and oh got to fix that!


edited to add that i have also had a broken line but it didn't hinder flight performance!

[wildcard451 0]

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31 one jump and not cutaway yet. ok but... ive had line twist a break fire on oppening, and closed end cells. these I think of as incidental maintenance not malls. how about you guys what is the limit or line between oh shit and oh got to fix that!

Technically you could call a malfunction anything that is not a "normal" opening.
On student canopies a brake fire can be a surprise inconvenience, but on a HP canopy a brake fire could quickly become an unrecoverable spin.

I guess you could call a malfunction anything that you have to fix to have a safely landable canopy. I.e: if I look up and wonder if I should land it, or if it's gonna keep flying right, then I call that a mal.

[SkydiveJack 1]

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what do you concider a malfunction

When my spell check craps out!

[brettski74 0]

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how about you guys what is the limit or line between oh shit and oh got to fix that!

Note that malfunction and cutaway are not the same thing. As stated above, a malfunction is anything that is not a normal opening. There are malfunctions which you may be able to resolve without cutting away, so line twists, premature brake fires and broken lines are all malfunctions. Whether end cell closure is a malfunction or not is debatable. Some canopies such as the Sabre2 are well known for end cell closure, so it may be considered normal for that canopy, however, it may sometimes require some corrective action on the part of the pilot, particularly if they're inducing a turn or a dive.

[yoink 321]

For low experienced people:

Is it the right shape?

Is it steerable?

Is it intact?

If the answer to any of the above is 'no', then it's a malfunction and a chop. :)

FJC stuff.

[fasted3 0]

You're saying a malfuncition is a cutaway.
The post above your's says it's not (necessarily.)
The OP is asking for a definition.
Which is it?

I vote it is. If it's fixable it's not.

But what do I know?

[yoink 321]

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You're saying a malfuncition is a cutaway.
The post above your's says it's not (necessarily.)
The OP is asking for a definition.
Which is it?

I vote it is. If it's fixable it's not.

For lightly loaded canopies there are annoyances and there are malfunctions. 2 different things.

An annoyance can be fixed given enough time and altitude. These are such things as line twists & closed end cells provided they don't contradict the 3 rules in my first post.

A malfunction is a cutaway. Can I steer it? No? Chop.
Is it the shape it's supposed to be? No? Chop.

etc etc.

This is all first jump course material.


Now the line blurs slightly when you start getting more experience - we all know that line twists on a highly loaded canopy can be unrecoverable, for example, but the thinking is that by that time, you've got enough experience to think your way through the situation rather than relying on some blanket rules, but for the OP with 30 jumps? Simple is best.

[fasted3 0]

Ahhh, I was looking at it bas-ackwards.
If it was a cutaway it was a mal.
It it was fixed then it wasn't.

You are absolutely right about newer jumpers.
I am still new. Sometimes I'm not sure whether I can fix it or not. My rule is if I'm at 2k and it's still not landable, I'm out of there.
If that happens, I'll call it a malfunction whether it was or not.

Thanks for your clarification.

But what do I know?

[jakee 1,254]

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31 one jumps and not cutaway yet. ok but... i've had line twist a break fire on opening, and closed end cells. these I think of as incidental maintenance not malls. how about you guys what is the limit or line between oh shit and oh got to fix that!

I'd consider a mal anything that makes me have to cutaway from and/or deploy reserve or anything that fucks me up because I should have cutaway from it.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[skybill 18]

Hi Red,
Malfunctions - any time the thing doesn't work the way it is suppose to! When malfunction(s) get to the point where your vertical velocity is out of control and you can then consider Plan "B" I guess you can say you have a "failure!!" How do you draw the line? Simple, ask an Engineer!! Here's a quote taken from the Boeing ALCM (Air Launched Cruise Missile) Mid-Air Retrival Parachute System main Parachute packing manual built by ScurvyIrvin. Some Boeing Engineer got paid a lot of $$ to pipe-dream this comment. "A 'Failure' is defined to be any malfunction or combination of malfunctions of a previously acceptable item which degrades any performance parameter to a level outside its specified performance limit or fails structurally." ....Think Fast!!

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[NovaTTT 1]

Technically a malfunction is an abnormal deployment or failure to deploy, sure.

But there is a real difference between a malfunction and a nuisance occurance.

Closed end cells, slider hang-up, line twists: these are nuisance occurances and are usually corrected by simply pumping the brakes.

Malfunctions are clearly defined and outlined. If you don't have a SIMs, get one.

Speak with your instructors and/or experienced jumpers at your DZ. Malfunctions and handling them should have been exhaustively covered in your FJC.

Knowledge is key and the ability to act on that knowledge is paramount.

Frankly, it doesn't matter if you recognize the specific malfunction, as long as you recognize you do not have a landable parachute over your head and execute the correct EPs to correct that problem.

Good luck, have fun and blue skies!

Nova



Edited to add "specific"

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[Icon134 0]

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Closed end cells, slider hang-up, line twists: these are nuisance occurances and are usually corrected by simply pumping the brakes.

And any of these can be considerd a malfunction if still in place at someone's cutaway decision aaltitude...

and btw: don't pump brakes for linetwists... come to think of it I've generally been recommended you should not release your brakes until line twists are cleared...

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[NovaTTT 1]

Right.

Normally I would say, sure, you know what I meant, but since we're talking with a new jumper I will accept the heat and say I should have separated those nuisances from the pumping brakes sentence.

Thanks for pointing out my typo.

New guy - don't unstow the toggles if you have linetwists! Undo the twists and then go for the toggles.

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[Reginald 0]

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i've had line twist a break fire on opening, and closed end cells. these I think of as incidental maintenance not malls.

The SIM defines these as "routine problems" or nuisances. These are things that are in fact common and typically very fixable. They only become malfuncations if they hinder confirming stearability by your decision altitude.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[billvon 2,391]

>how about you guys what is the limit or line between oh shit and oh got to
>fix that!

Whether or not you can land it.

I've landed a 190 with a blown topskin, and I've cut away from a 109 with a stuck toggle. The 190 was landable even with the significantly increased descent rate. In zero winds, the 109 was not landable safely with only rear risers to work with.

[BaronVonBoll 0]

My point wasnt wether it was landable or not. I know that if I have any doubt Im cutting it. My question stemmed from the USAPA sign up> They asked how many jumps ...how many years . how many jumps in the last year ....AND how many malfunctions in the last year. so minor nusances or mal functions? even if they were clearable and landable.

[NWFlyer 2]

I suspect USPA's definition assumes a malfunction that needed to be cutaway. I know that's how I interpret it when I fill out the renewal application.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[billvon 2,391]

>My point wasnt wether it was landable or not.. . . (USPA asked) how many
>malfunctions in the last year.

To me, they are one and the same. Parachutes can have minor to major problems. If you can't land it safely, it's a malfunction, and you have to cut it away. If you can't cut it away, it's still a mal, and you may be seriously injured trying to land it. (Or you may luck out; stranger things have happened.)

[BaronVonBoll 0]

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I suspect USPA's definition assumes a malfunction that needed to be cutaway. I know that's how I interpret it when I fill out the renewal application.

Thats the way I interpreted it also.

[popsjumper 2]

If I'm reading Bill correctly, I agree with him.
For me, if I can't land it safely, it was a mal.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239