MarkM 0 #26 April 26, 2005 QuoteQuoteDo you think we are unconcerned when someone dies? Do you think we shrug and continue on without examination of the facts and situation? DO you think we don't institute practices and procedures to prevent similar incidents? Do you think we are cavalier with one another's lives?Not the first, but the others yes, a little bit. You don't know Jack Shit about the sport if you think that's true. Your reflective ink idea is case in point. We don't give a crap about that, because this type of incident is a freak thing. The community is much much more concerned with the things that are really causing incidents in this sport, that never make the national headlines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #27 April 26, 2005 QuoteDude...if you want to understand us, go to the nearest DZ and jump! Actually, this doesn't have the ring of true help. It smells like career politician all over it. I've never seen politics improve anything. Barry, we already have political representation, the USPA. The board of the USPA has people who understand the sport and have experience with skydiving, skydiving operations, and most of all... skydivers. Walk away. QuoteThere are quite a few innovators in this sport that are doing everything possible to come up with ways to make this sport a little bit safer somehow. Somehow, someone with absolutely no skydiving experience offering suggestions smacks of arrogance without equal. 50,000 adults with years of involvement and then this guy comes along. QuoteDon't come in to the forums and try and "fix" us. I hate the "mother hen" type. QuoteDon't start coming here making skydiving your pet project to save us all from ourselves. C, that is definitely a nicer way to put it than any words that came to my mind. Barry, thanks, we don't the need the help. This is our sport and our life. Don't f-up something that you don't understand. If you are really interested, do 100 jumps and then figure out your priorities. We already have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DirtyDon 0 #28 April 26, 2005 Who in the HELL is this Barry guy! and why is there a WHUFFO on this website! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arlo 0 #29 April 26, 2005 i personally don't care what you think and for the life of me can't figure out why you won't go away. just go away. your presence is as bad as someone knocking on my door at 9am on a saturday morning trying to sell me religion. better yet...contact a guy named "rhino" on these forums. i tell ya what, this dude knows everything that happened here in deland this weekend and has the answers to all the questions. he did a complete root cause analysis from his armchair in michigan. you guys hook up over coffee and get back to us on how to make our lives safer. look forward to the report. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #30 April 26, 2005 Maybe we should all go visit Barrys world and try to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-Barry- 0 #31 April 26, 2005 QuoteWho in the HELL is this Barry guy!I'm a politician from the media who doesn't know what he's talking about. Oh, and a WHUFFO. As long as I'm here, I'll choose one of the issues I bought up and try to explain myself more. QuoteNo official organization rates the safety of skydiving centers. Compiling a list of accidents by skydiving center would simply indicate the busiest, most active centers.Hmm...nah, I don't think there's a need to explain. Have fun everyone. Politics and social affairs resources at PoliSource.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdfreefly 1 #32 April 26, 2005 Dude, I don' mind if you come around asking questions, but don't troll. You have to expect this kind of reaction and deal with it if you are going to come around here with no skydiving experience and start suggesting what we can do, and what you think we aren't doing, to make the sport safer. Deal with, and post intelligently. If you want to troll, the moderators will ban you quick. Methane Freefly - got stink? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #33 April 26, 2005 QuoteQuoteWho in the HELL is this Barry guy!I'm a politician from the media who doesn't know what he's talking about. Oh, and a WHUFFO. Actually I think you are a non participant with no agenda other than to meddle in the sport of people who actually do know what they are doing and realize the risk, assume it and realize that if they mess up, it is no ones fault but their own... as I said in my other post that got deleted... the only way to avoid this is to avoid the take off and landing paths...and keep your head on a swivel, and even then, some day something bad might happen for no reason...its life, accept it... this aint a card game...and I like it that way.... Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #34 April 26, 2005 Quote...if you are going to come around here with no skydiving experience and start suggesting what we can do... "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #35 April 26, 2005 >and why is there a WHUFFO on this website! Because anyone can post here. It's not restricted to experienced jumpers, or skydivers, or the cool people, or whatever. Keep in mind we were all whuffos once. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crutch 0 #36 April 26, 2005 You still haven't answered everyone's question, what is your agenda? As far as per drop zone statistics go, lawyers would have a field day if we as an organization were to make public this kind of information. We as an organization keep statistics to improve the safety of our sport. By keeping the information private, we generate quite a bit larger data base without subjecting the reports to people like who, who have no idea what they are reading. We monthly publish accident reports in our publication, pick one up and read it. dz.com is not the only source of information. You want to improve our sport (of which you admittedly have very little knowledge until you saw a sensationalized story), you need to experience it. You would also find we lose a large portion of our brethern to mistakes that they initiated, not through malfunctioning, underdeveloped or misused equipment! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #37 April 26, 2005 Man would I feel dumb if I tried to tell miners how to improve their safety. I don' know anything about mining. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #38 April 26, 2005 QuoteRelying on people's memories for this is a little ridiculous. No more than "walking into a forum" filled with active participants of a certain activity, many of them professionally involved in that activity, many others from all walks of life with specific knowledge. (FYI we have "in house" doctors, EMR-personel, physicists, law-enforcement officers, lawyers, statisticians, pilots, etcetera - I bet there's the odd sociologist with in depth knowledge of Emile Durkheim's work to, but he prefers to stay in hiding You walk in here saying "I know what you guys ought to do"... and justify yourself with general compassion for people you don't know and have never met and because you happen to know how to "google the internet." Most of us know how to do that. And the link to the website you provide doesn't help much either. Providing links to what is written elsewhere? I can find the Los Angeles Times on my own, should I want to read it, thank you. Now go and wait for a mining accident - I'm sure your invaluable contribution will be highly appreciated... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #39 April 26, 2005 Quote>I'm a bit of an activist and I care about preventing pain, injury, and >death even of people I don't know and their families. I also tend to >have a lot of ideas. I don't always take the time to fully research > something, but I think I put things in question form in those cases >rather than in preachy form. No problem there, but realize that many of the things you have been considering have already been tried and either accepted or rejected by other jumpers. Often, well-meaning people set up rules/laws that end up having the opposite effect that they are hoping for; many skydivers are thus very leery of new laws that "will keep us safe." I can think of several that did just the opposite. Usually known as "The Law of Unintended Consequences". That is why actions should be judged based on actual outcomes, not on what experts (or non experts) think will happen.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CameraGeek 0 #40 April 26, 2005 QuoteThe Webmaster/Editor of PoliSource is the former Director of Communications for a New York City Councilmember From his own link, friends.... Can someone say "Political Agenda?" I knew that you could....Look out New york!! Robbie Culver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #41 April 26, 2005 Maybe the have fun comment is evidence that Elvis has left the building.In any case lets look at this another way Barry. Lets say your wife and kid or maybe your mother and father are killed in a terrible accident.Lets say the car they were driving in was hit by a piece of space junk.Then less than 24 hours from the time this happened,before you can even bury your family,a stranger comes to your house to tell you that if only you had a space junk detector in your car this would have never happened.I don't think you would recieve this guest very well now would you. Then this person goes on to insist that everyone in your town have a space junk detector installed in their car.Sounds pretty stupid doesn't it,considering this is the only time in history someone was ever killed by space junk while sitting in their car. Think about it Barry.You came here at the wrong time with the wrong attitude.Although I don't think you expected anything different.I think you are a professional at what you have been doing here.I can't imagine a life spent policing everyone elses activities.Go out a do something for yourself man. I have to go.I need to get a schedule for the space launches all over the world.I don't want to be driving around when they shoot that stuff up in the air. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
divnswoop 0 #42 April 26, 2005 Everybody's emotions are high right now.....Maybe we shouldn't feed the guy that has come in here just to get under our skin??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #43 April 26, 2005 There are tons of issue's more important..like children and our school system. Thats where Barry's time should be spent.............................he's just looking for the limelight,where was he before this? hhmmm.............thought so.smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #44 April 26, 2005 Hello Barry, When you've solved all of skydiving's problems, please come and help us BASE jumpers . . . NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vandev 0 #45 April 27, 2005 Hello Barry, When you've solved all of skydiving's problems, please come and help us BASE jumpers . . . NickD BASE 194 *** In light of brother gus not being able to be here...i would have to say what Nick here says is the only thing that has made me laugh in the last few days.... And this is from a guy how from what i have read has been walking a fine line with the unknown.... "Nick", Never change..... "Barry", you need a F%%$# Hobby...! go get a life and leave this to people who accept the unknown.... In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloudi 0 #46 April 27, 2005 ...but don't you* know that all you have to do is read a couple of news articles about a sensationalized mining accident (of which you know nothing about), offer your obviously superior advice, sit back smugly, and hope that those ridiculously ignorant miners will see your wisdom? Oh yes, don't neglect to mention the fact that you are analyzing the actions of an extremely talented and exceptional miner who was killed by impacting with an extremely talented and exceptional excavator when there are still no facts pointing to the cause of the incident. Clearly, reflective material on the miner's equipment could have prevented the high speed impact where decades of experience and training failed. Ooops. Was that too sarcastic? I guess they** will just have to deal with it. We love you Bill, we miss you Gus, and we have great respect for you both. Only those with too much time and too little common sense would point fingers in this situation. Accidents happen and what is important is that we stand together and love each other through this devastating accident and always. I guess ignorance really is bliss. Kim *mr2mk1g: in the off chance that you don't get the sarcasm, this isn't aimed at you...it's only an extension of what you were saying. **meaning anyone who passes judgment without the facts that are still eluding all of us--there are no answers yet and there may never be. Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
