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danny2485

friend is a helicopter pilot, have some questions

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so my friend is almost completed his helicopter license. so how illegal or what do you have to do to be able to just go up and jump out. once im confident and have enough jumps and my own gear. just to go in the copter with my gear on and have him go to whatever altitude and jump out. can i log that kind of jump and where would i have to land. is it totally illegal or what? i dont know anything about it so i figured id ask

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Are you jumping on an established DZ or off?
If off, file the notam, be sure of your airspace (Class E or G), and have permission of the landowner.
Search "Bandit Jumps" for more info.

Does the pilot have a Commercial or Private license? If he is only a Private pilot, it's can be tricky. Who pays how much (even splitting the cost is iffy)?
Seach "Private pilots flying jumpers" for more.

Last is the experience issue. I don't have a rotor rating, but having jumpers hanging off the strut on a 182 makes it fly differently. I would think a helicopter with it's inherent instability would be worse. Having a pilot with a rating that the ink isn't even dry yet?? And if it's a rental chopper, there may be some exclusionary clauses.

Not a bad idea by any means, and it's a good thing you asked before you tried it.

Good luck with it.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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>so how illegal or what do you have to do to be able to just go up and jump out.

You have to:

1) Contact ATC between 1 and 24 hours before the jump (for NOTAM purposes)
2) Contact ATC via radio just before the jump, and then after jumpers have exited
3) Have the permission of the landowner you're landing on
4) Avoid Class A/B/C/D airspaces (avoiding A is easy!)
5) Avoid congested areas (cities, suburbs) and "open air assemblies of people" (crowded beaches, parks etc)

If you do all that you're technically legal.

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so my friend is almost completed his helicopter license. so how illegal or what do you have to do to be able to just go up and jump out. once im confident and have enough jumps and my own gear. just to go in the copter with my gear on and have him go to whatever altitude and jump out. can i log that kind of jump and where would i have to land. is it totally illegal or what? i dont know anything about it so i figured id ask



Hi Dan

Based on your profile and your statement that the chopper pilot doesn't have his liscense yet.

Take it slow, Very slow, You live in skydiving heaven: Florida the land of a DZ every 6o miles with a twin otter, where you can jump 365 days a year.

Learn to walk, before you run :|

Of course do whatever floats you boatB|

R.I.P.

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thanks guys. yeah this wont be anytime soon as you can see ive only done one tandem. and he just got his private i think. but me and my friend are going to get certified in the next couple weeks. so this is for far future use. getting jumps for the split cost of gas and find a big open space.
so any class E airspace and where the person doesnt mind us landing and picking back up can be used and not get into trouble?

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really, even with 3 of us splitting the cost of gas and 2 jumping over and over.
also since i havent been certified how do you log jumps? like could i log those? not sure at all how you log and if things have to be signed or what, like can they go toward your total jumps since you were not at a dropzone

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>really, even with 3 of us splitting the cost of gas and 2 jumping over and over.

Well, let's see:

R44 rental $400/hr wet
Climb rate full load/warm day 500fpm, so 10min to altitude, 5 min to descend, 5 min to load
3 jumps/hr from 5000 feet
Cost per jump, splitting 3 ways: $67 per jump
Average cost per jump from an Otter going to 12,500 feet: $20 per jump

>also since i havent been certified how do you log jumps?

Another licensed jumper or the pilot can sign your logbook.

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really, even with 3 of us splitting the cost of gas and 2 jumping over and over.
also since i havent been certified how do you log jumps? like could i log those? not sure at all how you log and if things have to be signed or what, like can they go toward your total jumps since you were not at a dropzone



The cheapest chopper out there is the R-44 - look in the thread down the page about it, and figure $400/hr. That's a lot of jump tickets. And understand - if the flight isn't for a "common purpose", having a Private pilot do it and splitting the cost is a grey area legally. (that was in some of the stuff I suggested searching)

Look in your SIM for the logging rules. Basically, yes off DZ is still a jump. You can sign your own (after you've been licensed), the other licensed jumper or the pilot can sign too.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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thanks guys. yeah this wont be anytime soon as you can see ive only done one tandem. and he just got his private i think. but me and my friend are going to get certified in the next couple weeks. so this is for far future use. getting jumps for the split cost of gas and find a big open space.
so any class E airspace and where the person doesnt mind us landing and picking back up can be used and not get into trouble?



Careful with splitting costs when he only has his private rating. According to the FARs a private rated pilot can only split costs if the pilot and passengers are on a shared interest venture. Meaning he would do it whether you guys were in the helicopter or not. Skydiving would not count as that because, obviously, he wasn't planning on jumping out of his helicopter haha. It gets a little shifty in that area but just be smart about it and you'll be fine.

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if the flight isn't for a "common purpose", having a Private pilot do it and splitting the cost is a grey area legally.



Actually, its black and white. It is absolutely not legal for the private pilot to share expenses with the jumpers, as there is no common purpose. Granted first of all, thats all on the pilot, and if the jumpers don't say anything, no one is going to know. Technically, though, it is against the FAR's.

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>>If you are in Class E airspace, essentially the middle of nowhere, then he can
>>chuck you out and pick you and and do it again all day.

>Got a reg to back that up with?

105.25 (a)(3). Provided you a) avoid things like open air assemblies of people, b) notify ATC between 1 and 24 hours before the jump for NOTAM purposes and c) make radio calls a few minutes before and right after the jump - you can jump all day.

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really, even with 3 of us splitting the cost of gas and 2 jumping over and over.
also since i havent been certified how do you log jumps? like could i log those? not sure at all how you log and if things have to be signed or what, like can they go toward your total jumps since you were not at a dropzone



Really! I've done my share of aircraft leasing for off DZ jumping.:D I have a pretty good idea of how much (little) money there is to be made(saved) by leasing an aircraft as opposed to going to a DZ. As I said, It's fun but it's not cheaper. Well unless your friend plans to buy a chopper and give you the flight time.

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>>If you are in Class E airspace, essentially the middle of nowhere, then he can
>>chuck you out and pick you and and do it again all day.

>Got a reg to back that up with?

105.25 (a)(3). Provided you a) avoid things like open air assemblies of people, b) notify ATC between 1 and 24 hours before the jump for NOTAM purposes and c) make radio calls a few minutes before and right after the jump - you can jump all day.



That's more like it! The way he had it phrased seemed to indicate you don't need to mess with ATC if you're in Class E airspace - which as you just pointed out is not true.

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thanks again everyone. yeah i didnt know it was that expensive, i would have to get in 5 or 6 jumps in an hour. thats climp to whatever altitude we want to jump from, jump, land and repack. i dont know how long that all takes since ive only done one tandem.
plus im joining the airforce and will jump a lot once in. does anyone anything about jumping(cost) if you are certified in the airforce?

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It costs the same as a civilian would pay. Only a few DZ's I've jumped at offered a military discount, something like 5% if memory serves. If you are talking about jumping for the Air Force, you would need to be assigned to an AFSC which does that sort of thing, and the only ones I can think of off the top of my head are freefall instructors at the academy or some sort of special forces career field.
The best things in life are dangerous.

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I can't say for sure, but I don't think you can jump with them whenever you want. If you're on a jump billet, maybe you can. I worked for 8 months in a CSAR squadron at a time when I had around 250 jumps, and they wouldn't let me go up with them simply because I hadn't been through THEIR freefall training program. It's a big game of CYA, and also they don't want you to take the risk if it doesn't directly pertain to your job.
The best things in life are dangerous.

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Ya that was my bad. I meant class G airspace. Even though as he quoted you can still do it in Class E with minimal effort. As for the black and white of the whole private pilot cost shared business...I really pretty much is. But the whole concept of it is weird. Take for instance the pilot that lived out in the middle of nowhere in a small community and owned a 172. His neighbor's father has massive kidney failure and is dying and an ambulance won't get there anytime soon so he decides to fly them both to the hospital. Neighbor's father lives due to the pilot's action and give the pilot some money for gas. Somehow FAA finds out about it and wanted to completely revoke the pilot's license. He fought it about 20 times and got it to a 30 day suspension. I find that ridiculous. Just keep it to yourselves and it won't be an issue...but don't go out and make a profit giving rides under a private rating either.

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Ya that was my bad. I meant class G airspace. Even though as he quoted you can still do it in Class E with minimal effort. As for the black and white of the whole private pilot cost shared business...I really pretty much is. But the whole concept of it is weird. Take for instance the pilot that lived out in the middle of nowhere in a small community and owned a 172. His neighbor's father has massive kidney failure and is dying and an ambulance won't get there anytime soon so he decides to fly them both to the hospital. Neighbor's father lives due to the pilot's action and give the pilot some money for gas. Somehow FAA finds out about it and wanted to completely revoke the pilot's license. He fought it about 20 times and got it to a 30 day suspension. I find that ridiculous. Just keep it to yourselves and it won't be an issue...but don't go out and make a profit giving rides under a private rating either.



Ya the rules can be pretty dumb on that.

Take a look at FAR 105.25 - you need to notify atc always, even in class G airspace.

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