Hypothetical rescue in the air

[piratemike 0]

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No. 0% chance of success. Even a sub terminal "Mr. Bill" jump right out the door is pretty difficult to pull off. Here is a Mr. Bill if you don't know what it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWErSdR516c

That was nice....Mr. Bill + Camera Helmet + RSL connected

...And...what's your point?

Besides doing a Mr. Bill, who cares is he's wearing a modern side-mounted camera helmet and an RSL.

His response seems to suggest that he feels that the camera helmet is making things more unsafe.

Safe and risk are subjective terms. In general people have a very hard time quantifying risk.
I have seen a jumper call somebody else crazy for doing something as dangerous as use a side-mounted helmet, and then jump on his motorcycle to ride home.

Those guys in the video are comfortable with their level of risk, lippy is not.
It's not a problem.

Anyhow, watching those videos makes me think that it's about time that I go try a mr. bill.

BTW, I'm not trying to stir the pot here.

[fastphil 0]

With fate being what it is, I would accept the inevitablity of the situation but would go for the last kiss pass.

On a similar note, me and a Buddy used to practice CRW with round canopies and other less than usual behaviors, including quartering away from each other and pulling while only a few feet apart (yes, I've been inside an opening canopy). We had well discussed EPs to land under one canopy regardless of the situation...

[brettski74 0]

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Besides doing a Mr. Bill, who cares is he's wearing a modern side-mounted camera helmet and an RSL.

The general concern with a camera helmet - particularly a side-mounted camera - and an RSL is that the camera and it's associated bits and pieces are a potential snag point and that in the event of a snag happening during cutaway, you probably want the chance to clear it before you pull your reserve. Having an RSL hooked up means that it could deploy your reserve while the left side riser is still snagged on your camera.

[skydude2000 3]

I think I might have read somewhere, or maybe it really was the Mythbusters episode, that from a terminal deployment, you would have to absorb at least 3x that jumper's weight, or around 300 lbs. So unless you're a serious body-builder or insanely hopped up on adrenaline, which I suppose could be the case, but for most people it would be pretty impossible.

PULL!! or DIE!!

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I think I might have read somewhere, or maybe it really was the Mythbusters episode, that from a terminal deployment, you would have to absorb at least 3x that jumper's weight, or around 300 lbs. So unless you're a serious body-builder or insanely hopped up on adrenaline, which I suppose could be the case, but for most people it would be pretty impossible.

You could use mechanical leverage. For example you could squeeze your arms through the first jumper's harness just above the hip junction and hold on to the opposite side of the harness. So you'd only have to support 3X your weight, multiplied by the length of arm bone outside the harness, divided by the length of arm bone inside the harness.

With a greater than 3:1 ratio of arm-bone between the main lift webs to outside that and a 3G opening shock you'd have to support less than your full weight.

No clue how strong your arm bones are with bending loads or how strong elbows are.

Obviously you'd have to be good enough at back flying to make that dock.

[fasted3 0]

Interesting idea.
Could rip your arm or leg off too.
Is this a really good friend or what?

I should also mention that a real skydiver would never expect anyone to come save them. The only plausable good outcome is the person save themself. That was the goal when they jumped out, and it's not subject to change on the way down.
Dare I hope we agree on this?

But what do I know?

[pontiacgtp00 0]

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Need I go on?

Yes, please continue your rambling.

[2cmyzx 0]

3 yrs ago at lost prarie, Packer John and Mcbain, yes the two that landed the Mr Bill at the WFFC, did two terminal Mr Bills!

[kallend 1,623]

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No. 0% chance of success. Even a sub terminal "Mr. Bill" jump right out the door is pretty difficult to pull off.

Your airspeed actually decreases for the first 2 - 3 seconds out the door of a plane flying at 80-90kt IAS, due to drag slowing you more quickly than gravity accelerates you. Then it increases again as gravity wins.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[surfbum5412 0]

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Besides doing a Mr. Bill, who cares is he's wearing a modern side-mounted camera helmet and an RSL.

The general concern with a camera helmet - particularly a side-mounted camera - and an RSL is that the camera and it's associated bits and pieces are a potential snag point and that in the event of a snag happening during cutaway, you probably want the chance to clear it before you pull your reserve. Having an RSL hooked up means that it could deploy your reserve while the left side riser is still snagged on your camera.

First question you have to ask is: With the new lightweight-low profile-side mounts, are the chances of a snag negligible?

Second question: Why would you cutaway your main with the lines snagged on your head? Do think removing it might be a possible thing to do before cutting away?

[brettski74 0]

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First question you have to ask is: With the new lightweight-low profile-side mounts, are the chances of a snag negligible?

I agree that for a well designed camera helmet with a small camera on it, the snag potential may be small. It's personal choice and up to you to decide whether you think the chances of a snag are higher or lower than the chances of a low reserve pull.

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Second question: Why would you cutaway your main with the lines snagged on your head? Did you put the helmet on your head when you left the plane? Do think removing it might be a smart thing to do before cutting away?

You wouldn't, but who said that your malfunction on your main had anything to do with the camera helmet? I spoke about a snag occurring during the cutaway. You could have a malfunction totally unrelated to the camera helmet but have the risers snag your camera during the cutaway. Think what could happen if you had the left side front riser passing in front of the camera box and the rear riser passing to the rear of it. Now what? Again, this might be a low probability occurrence, but this is the type of thing that people worry about when disconnecting their RSL for camera jumps and a smaller side-mount camera probably increases the riskof this kind of snag unless the camera box is carefully designed.

In any case, I was answering a question. Personally, I leave my Skyhook RSL hooked up for several reasons. First, I think the chance of a riser snagging my camera during cutaway is small given the size of the camera box and the typical spread between the front and rear risers under load. Secondly, I don't jump camera all the time and I think that it's more important to keep my rig set up in a consistent manner for all jumps, rather than risk doing something silly connecting and disconnecting an RSL all the time. Thirdly, I'm not yet jumping anything crazy. As my needs and/or equipment change, I might revisit these decisions.

[surfbum5412 0]

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First question you have to ask is: With the new lightweight-low profile-side mounts, are the chances of a snag negligible?

I agree that for a well designed camera helmet with a small camera on it, the snag potential may be small. It's personal choice and up to you to decide whether you think the chances of a snag are higher or lower than the chances of a low reserve pull.

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Second question: Why would you cutaway your main with the lines snagged on your head? Did you put the helmet on your head when you left the plane? Do think removing it might be a smart thing to do before cutting away?

You wouldn't, but who said that your malfunction on your main had anything to do with the camera helmet? I spoke about a snag occurring during the cutaway. You could have a malfunction totally unrelated to the camera helmet but have the risers snag your camera during the cutaway. Think what could happen if you had the left side front riser passing in front of the camera box and the rear riser passing to the rear of it. Now what? Again, this might be a low probability occurrence, but this is the type of thing that people worry about when disconnecting their RSL for camera jumps and a smaller side-mount camera probably increases the riskof this kind of snag unless the camera box is carefully designed.

In any case, I was answering a question. Personally, I leave my Skyhook RSL hooked up for several reasons. First, I think the chance of a riser snagging my camera during cutaway is small given the size of the camera box and the typical spread between the front and rear risers under load. Secondly, I don't jump camera all the time and I think that it's more important to keep my rig set up in a consistent manner for all jumps, rather than risk doing something silly connecting and disconnecting an RSL all the time. Thirdly, I'm not yet jumping anything crazy. As my needs and/or equipment change, I might revisit these decisions.

Man I love that Skyhook. Heard Mirage ha had their version ready to be released for a long time.

From what I gathered about a skyhook, if you cutaway and the canopy won't release from you, the main doesn't act at the super-big-pilot-chute. And in that case, you have to deploy reserve manually. Maybe that would be relevant in the case of a helmet snag?

[brettski74 0]

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From what I gathered about a skyhook, if you cutaway and the canopy won't release from you, the main doesn't act at the super-big-pilot-chute. And in that case, you have to deploy reserve manually. Maybe that would be relevant in the case of a helmet snag?

The Skyhook RSL is still an RSL. If the left side riser was snagged, it's still highly likely that the right side riser would release far enough to pull the reserve ripcord.

[surfbum5412 0]

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From what I gathered about a skyhook, if you cutaway and the canopy won't release from you, the main doesn't act at the super-big-pilot-chute. And in that case, you have to deploy reserve manually. Maybe that would be relevant in the case of a helmet snag?

The Skyhook RSL is still an RSL. If the left side riser was snagged, it's still highly likely that the right side riser would release far enough to pull the reserve ripcord.

Yeah, that makes sense.