TomSpoon 2 #1 July 9, 2008 On July third there was an unfortunate accident at Batavia NY. Then the Genesee county manager arrogantly tried to cancel the boogie. This is how the events played out. The Batavia Boogie hosted by Frontier Skydivers at Genesee County Airport in Batavia NY was planned to begin wedensday July 2nd with a Twin Otter, to be replaced on Thursday night by a Casa 212. The twin otter was than scheduled to go to West Point for the weekend. Thursday was mostly weathered out but it finally cleared by late afternoon. The first load went up at about 4:30pm. On the second load of the day experienced jumper Joe Schickler went in. He landed in a wheat field about 1/4 mile north of the TDZ of runway 28, outside of the airport boundry. The club S&TA was not allowed to go near the accident scene to investigate by the Genesee county sheriffs and as far as I know no one has yet to inspect the gear. Jumping stopped. Not officialy, but no one seemed interested. Rumors circulated that the airport was closed and the arriving Casa had to divert to Rochester International airport about 25 miles away. At around 10:30pm Thursday night, the Frontier skydivers president announced that county manager Jay Gsell had ordered jumping to stop for the rest of the weekend and that they had asked Paul Fayard to alllow the twin otter to stay and send the Casa to West Point in it's place, In hope that they could salvage the boogie by moving it to the clubs home airport, Holllands International where the runway was too short for the Casa. Many jumpers were aghast that the boogie could simply be cancelled. Was the FSD board of directors going to roll over so easily? Can we get a lawyer or a judge to sign a restraining order stopping the county manager on independance day? Friday morning jumpers began breaking camp. Word had gone out the boogie was canceled and moving to Holland's International. Friday morning I contacted USPA regional director Scott Stewart in hopes the club could get some legal help. I was surprised to find out he was not aware of the situation but he was incredibly helpful. He started asking questions. Were any regulations violated? No . Was any part of the contract between the club and Genesee county violated? No. He opined that the county manager could not simply unilateraly revoke permission to use the airport without cause. I consulted with a club member who was also an attorney her opinion was we had permission and If anyone was going to have to find a Judge on the fourth of July to sign a restraining order it was the county, not us. The issue came down to FAR 105.17 which requires permission of the airport manager for jumps to be made. We had written permission but were asked to stop jumping by the County manager. Did the club have that permission or not? The club member attorney agreed to call the Genesee county attorney John Rizzo to explain our position that we had written permission to jump and were going to continue doing so. It was not productive. "That man's an asshole" is what I overheard after she hung up the phone. We talked to the otter pilot Mark Vickers and explained to him the situation. Would he be willing to fly? Yes, But some one else would have to go first. That person would be Frontier skydivers pilot Paul Gath who agreed to fly one cessna load first and take the heat if their was going to be any. By now it was late friday morning. The Casa had already departed for West Point and the best we could hope for was that the boogie would continue at Batavia with only a twin otter. Word was put out that the boogie was going to continue .Paul Gath flew the cessna load and nothing happened. Than Mark Vickers continued to fly loads in the twin otter. Later in the day with the boogie in full swing county manager Jay Gsell returned. He buttonholed Paul Gath and asked. I thought we had an agreement you would stop jumping? Paul's reply was "We changed are minds, just like you did" He huffed said something like we had not heard the last from him and made some vague threats about closing the airport and walked off. We never heard from him again. Here is Genesee County manager Jay Gsell's web page. http://www.co.genesee.ny.us/dpt/countymanager/index.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #2 July 9, 2008 Do NOT bury the manager in childish or obcene emails. I'll bet that the issue can be resolved on a local level with a lot less friction. Remember, you want the dropzone to remain there and having some low rent boss hogg gunning for it won't be good. I will be interested on how much assistance comes from the USPA if needed.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #3 July 9, 2008 My wife, a non-skydiver, has taught me one very important lesson over the years... Kill them with kindness! Over the years, I've watched her win argument after argument by being sweet as pie. Even when she's wrong, people go out of their way to help her because "she was so nice". Take this for what it's worth, it really does work. Kill these as_ho_es with kindness and they'll become your greatest allies. Eventually, they'll be calling you to plead with you to hold the Boogie again this year.Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #4 July 9, 2008 QuoteMy wife, a non-skydiver, has taught me one very important lesson over the years... Kill them with kindness! Over the years, I've watched her win argument after argument by being sweet as pie. Even when she's wrong, people go out of their way to help her because "she was so nice". Take this for what it's worth, it really does work. Kill these as_ho_es with kindness and they'll become your greatest allies. Eventually, they'll be calling you to plead with you to hold the Boogie again this year. That's as good as any advice I've seen. No matter how pissed off you are at whuffos who try to shut you down and do, like the Dublin boogie, it's never good to get in a pissing match with them."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomSpoon 2 #5 July 9, 2008 It is not my intent to encourage people to bury Mr Gsell in hate mail. I just want everyone to know the whole story. I doubt their will ever be another Boogie in Batavia. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #6 July 10, 2008 my email Dear Sir I heard on the weekend about the unfortunate incident at the Batavia Boogie. I just wanted to mention that this is the first year in a long time that I have not attended the event. I started going down from Toronto to the Batavia event back in the late 1980's or early '90's, I think. and have been to most of them. Usually I bring my non-jumping wife who spends her time shopping in the area and visiting antique stores. We often go down a couple of days early to explore the area, or stay a couple of days late. I hope that this incident does not cause trouble between the skydivers and the county. It would be a shame for the merchants in the area to lose the business all those skydivers and their families bring. Sincerely,If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #7 July 10, 2008 QuoteI doubt their will ever be another Boogie in Batavia. That's a shame; but if you have to move, you have to move. I just hope the tradition of an annual boogie in Upstate NY will continue, somewhere, next year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #8 July 10, 2008 Quote I doubt their will ever be another Boogie in Batavia. whoa... Bro' you know i love ya' and I'll skydive with you anytime... but this statement is reckless, at best... AND inflammatory at worst..... WHy wouldn't there be another boogie there??? we have worked successfully with the City of batavia, and with Genesee county, since the early 80's...... Some ONE person,,, ( who was likely just trying to cover his own ass) had a "knee-jerk' reaction, when told of the loss of a jumper,,, and without ANY consultation, any request from our duly designated rep. for accurate information,,,, or ANY input from those knowledgeable in the subject of skydiving.... this bureaucrat unilaterally DICTATED... 'the boogie is over"..... well it WASN'T over was it??? Fact is , our persistance prevailed and so now we need to be cool and quiet and keep our fingers crossed.. This is a federally funded PUBLIC airport.... if a pilot misjudges a landing, and totals his plane and himself... does that mean the airport should be Closed to ALL pilots??? of course not... Lets wait and see, we have Fine and knowledgeable skydivers who voluntarily serve as liason, between the club and the airport management... we shall keep our fingers crossed, and hope for common sense to prevail.. and THAT there will continue to be,,, the batavia boogie... fly safe, skydive safe. see ya' at the dz. jmy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomSpoon 2 #9 July 10, 2008 Jay Gsell is already convinced that he needs to protect skydivers from themselves. I doubt you will change his mind. Your emails would be beter sent to people who do want us there as much as we want to be there. May I suggest the Genesee County Chamber of commerce ; [email protected] and The Batavia News; [email protected] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomSpoon 2 #10 July 10, 2008 Quote Quote I doubt their will ever be another Boogie in Batavia. whoa... Bro' you know i love ya' and I'll skydive with you anytime... but this statement is reckless, at best... AND inflammatory at worst..... WHy wouldn't there be another boogie there??? we have worked successfully with the City of batavia, and with Genesee county, since the early 80's...... Some ONE person,,, ( who was likely just trying to cover his own ass) had a "knee-jerk' reaction, when told of the loss of a jumper,,, and without ANY consultation, any request from our duly designated rep. for accurate information,,,, or ANY input from those knowledgeable in the subject of skydiving.... this bureaucrat unilaterally DICTATED... 'the boogie is over"..... well it WASN'T over was it??? Fact is , our persistance prevailed and so now we need to be cool and quiet and keep our fingers crossed.. This is a federally funded PUBLIC airport.... if a pilot misjudges a landing, and totals his plane and himself... does that mean the airport should be Closed to ALL pilots??? of course not... Lets wait and see, we have Fine and knowledgeable skydivers who voluntarily serve as liason, between the club and the airport management... we shall keep our fingers crossed, and hope for common sense to prevail.. and THAT there will continue to be,,, the batavia boogie... fly safe, skydive safe. see ya' at the dz. jmy Jim, There may not be another boogie in Batavia because it would be financialy wreckless for the club to take the risk. If the boogie had been canceled it would have been financialy devestating. Yes, the boogie did continue but without the Casa. I'm sure this had an impact on attendance and the club's finances. If the Genesee County Chamber of Commerce and the people of Batavia want us there I hope they will join us in expressing our displeasure with Jay Gsell's autocratic attitude. I don't think being quiet with our fingers crossed is the way to go. Love ya man Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
javelin1 0 #11 July 14, 2008 maybe if you guys get him to do a tandem he would change his mind...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomSpoon 2 #12 July 14, 2008 From The Batavia Daily News; News roundup: Could the county ground the Batavia Boogie? Posted by Philip Anselmo about 3 days ago Tagged in * Batavia Boogie * Daily News It wasn't until page three of today's Daily Fly Swat that I got to what seemed to me pretty big news — although Correspondent Susan J. Conrad's account of Oakfield's sesquicentennial on the front page was a lot of fun. In big, bold type, the headline at the top of the Local section reads: "County may ground Boogie." Most folks may have already heard that this year's Batavia Boogie skydiving festival began with a fatal fall last Thursday when a diver's chute did not open. The story was covered extensively, and the Boogie continued through Sunday. Itr turns out, that fatality may have more lasting repercussions for the annual festival. County Manager Jay Gsell told Reporter Paul Mrozek that the county may "not allow the Batavia Boogie to continue" because "if an event increases the county's risk of liability, the county does not automatically approve the activity." Nothing concrete has been established. No one has yet said 'No' definitively. In fact, that's all the news there is: the county may not allow it. I put in a call to the county manager to see what exactly it would take for the county to deny the Boogie its permits for next year. I was told that he should call back later this afternoon. UPDATE: I spoke with the county manager, who got back to me within the hour. He told me that there would not be anything specific that would make the county deny the Boogie its permits. Rather, the county will consider the Boogie more of a "secondary liability." In other words, the county does not want to get sued as a result of something happening at the Boogie, since it would be happening on county grounds. Gsell also made clear that the county cannot "ground" the Boogie at all, so the Daily News headline is slightly misleading. The only activities the county can deny the festival goers are: camping, the use of the grounds for overnight stay and conduct of any business. If the FAA grants the skydivers permission to jump, there is nothing the county can say to the contrary. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomSpoon 2 #13 July 14, 2008 Quote Gsell also made clear that the county cannot "ground" the Boogie at all, so the Daily News headline is slightly misleading. The only activities the county can deny the festival goers are: camping, the use of the grounds for overnight stay and conduct of any business. If the FAA grants the skydivers permission to jump, there is nothing the county can say to the contrary. It seems Mr. Gsell is now doing some backpedaling. On Thursday he acted like he was the airport dictator. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomSpoon 2 #14 July 5, 2009 http://thebatavian.com/tags/batavia-boogie http://www.wbta1490.com/cgi_bin/s_jay6.mp3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #15 July 5, 2009 I presume this is why Frontier Skydivers (near Buffalo) is hosting their own Twin Otter Boogie 7/8 - 7/12. Got a lot of fond memories of them...gotta get back there some time... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3599553;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread So the dumbasses running Genesee County these days carried through on their threat to effectively make the Batavia Boogie impossible this year under the pretense of "We're only banning camping." Come the next local election cycle, I hope all the merchants and their families and friends will reward these guys handsomely for chasing-off all that money that could have flowed into the county's economy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoamingDZ.com 2 #16 July 6, 2009 One asshole caused the problems that caused me to move the Dublin Boogie. RoamingDZ.com,Proud sponsor of The Rack(v.2.0)National Hanging Out Tour. You are coming to the St.Patricks Boogie right?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomSpoon 2 #17 July 6, 2009 Apparently some Genesee County citizens see this for what it is. http://www.thedailynewsonline.com/articles/2009/06/18/opinion/letters/5605907.txt Letter: Dropping Boogie a shameful decision By Robert Zeagler Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:10 AM EDT Editor: After reading the May 29 article, "Batavia Boogie festival canceled," I really felt strongly that a response was in order. Shame - Shame - Shame on all Genesee County Legislators and the county attorney. Because of your miserable failure to address a problem and find a solution that has existed for almost a year, hundreds and hundreds of people you claim to represent and people outside this county will not be able to see a very positive, free and popular event -- the Batavia Boogie. The economic spin-off from this five-day event was not huge, but definitely brought in extra revenue and should not have been so callously disregarded. It certainly was a longstanding (19 years) very safe, controlled and well attended fun thing to witness. * One unfortunate and tragic accident (last year) and the politicians let this event "die in committee." Not even one legislator showed backbone, leadership or stepped up to the plate. Legislator Jerome Grasso, chairman of the Public Service Committee, said "no other legislator brought it back up at subsequent committee meetings" after it tabled a request to allow the skydiving club to camp for three days at the airport. Public Service tabled the matter to allow the county attorney to research it. "His advice was not to allow it to happen this year." In other words, sweep it under the carpet -- how pathetic and irresponsible. Gee -- after almost a year of procrastinating and foot dragging -- this sure "smells" like the liquid manure put out on Route 98 near the airport. It stinks like typical government planned obsolescence. God forbid, but this begs the question: If we have an airplane crash at the county airport and lives are lost, are the legislators then going to close the airport? Get real, politicians -- it was an accident. To all the skydivers and good people I saw at this event year after year, and to the new faces and people I met -- I bid you farewell and I will miss you. I'm the guy with the red Jeep with all the U.S. flags on top. If you see me around, please stop and say hello. We are the (victims) of an unjust and mishandled political boondoggle. I am very sorry that this great event was taken away from us. I am truly embarrassed by my dysfunctional Genesee County government. Bob Zeagler Batavia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #18 July 6, 2009 What a great letter. Good for him! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
