SuperKat 0 #76 April 29, 2005 Quote300 feet of separation is desirable and easily achievable at opening time. That was not 300 feet. The offender needs instruction in tracking. Thanks Kallend. However, I do have to accept some liability on my end too. We all should have been alert. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #77 April 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteDude, I wasn't backsliding. Look at the video again. I stayed in place. The video shows no evidence that you stayed in place. The body position you would have had to be in though to continue videoing the guy as he got higher above you is one that often results in backsliding - chest high, knees low. It's the classic tandem video position, and I can tell you from doing a few hundred tandem videos, that without really driving with your legs while in that position, you haul ass backwards. Without a fixed point of reference (i.e. a sitting tandem pair) you wouldn't likely even realize it though. You would be suprized how many people think that they're right down the tube... Canuck If the other guy can't track faster than the vidiot can backslide, the tracker has SERIOUS problems.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #78 April 29, 2005 QuoteIf he likes getting on the big ways at the DZ, fixing his attitude might take a talk from the top load organizer. I have pointed out lousy tracking during video debriefs, your complaint is nothing compared to peer pressure in front of all the hot local RW jumpers. Some good jumpers are just lousy trackers and it can look like they get used to everyone else streaking away before they even get in 1st gear . No kidding. Take a look at some tracking pics from a big way in this thread. www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1435381#1435381... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adamsr 0 #79 April 29, 2005 sorry, my bad, i just skimmed the conversation before posting Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #80 April 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteAs it's not the 1st time, avoid jumping with him... Quote Bingo! You guys are a rough crowd man. Just straight to the guillotine, eh?I concur. However, I want to at least express my feelings about this with him. Maybe he'll realize that he needs to work on being alert and tracking better. I at least owe him that much before I cut him off. *** As always, that's your call... You are the one ultimately responsible for you own safety. But keep in mind once is an accident, twice is a pattern. I won't ride in a car with someone who puts me at undue risk. Jumping has infinitely more inherent risks involved. It doesn't make sense to me NOT to eliminate the ones so obvious. Murphy lurks and there aren't any "Do-Overs' when someone get hurt. If you want to keep jumping with the guy, express to him how serious you take the careless / wreckless nature of this behavior. Offer to go up and show him how to track correctly. If an incident were ever to manifest itself because of this...how you going to feel saying to yourself... I KNEW that might happen? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canuck 0 #81 April 29, 2005 QuoteIf the other guy can't track faster than the vidiot can backslide, the tracker has SERIOUS problems. I agree, but I guarantee I can backslide as fast as the other guy in the video is tracking... On a side note to the original poster, I appreciate how you have accepted partial responsibility for this near incident rather than getting all defensive. If more people had that attitude, there would be way less injuries and fatalities in this sport. Canuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #82 April 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteIf the other guy can't track faster than the vidiot can backslide, the tracker has SERIOUS problems. I agree, but I guarantee I can backslide as fast as the other guy in the video is tracking... On a side note to the original poster, I appreciate how you have accepted partial responsibility for this near incident rather than getting all defensive. If more people had that attitude, there would be way less injuries and fatalities in this sport. Canuck While the video guy could have dealt with the situation better than he did, the vidiot should not have been put in the situation in the first place. If the dive plan is that the cameraman has the center, then the others should get the hell away from the center.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuperKat 0 #83 April 29, 2005 QuoteAs always, that's your call... You are the one ultimately responsible for you own safety. But keep in mind once is an accident, twice is a pattern. Murphy lurks and there aren't any "Do-Overs' when someone get hurt. I hear ya. Man. It's okay. I'm only jumping with my 4 way team now. And no, he's not part of it. QuoteIf you want to keep jumping with the guy, express to him how serious you take the careless / wreckless nature of this behavior.That's a given. However, it's something that he's not aware of. He doesn't realize that he's doing these things or he's not doing the right thing. QuoteOffer to go up and show him how to track correctly. I thought you suggested not to jump with him anymore. Lol QuoteIf an incident were ever to manifest itself because of this...how you going to feel saying to yourself... I KNEW that might happen? You got that right. I'm just sticking to jumping with my 4 way team from now on. Thanks for the advice. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuperKat 0 #84 April 29, 2005 QuoteOn a side note to the original poster, I appreciate how you have accepted partial responsibility for this near incident rather than getting all defensive. If more people had that attitude, there would be way less injuries and fatalities in this sport. I'm nothing special. Like I said, I'm not self-righteous. I'm not perfect and I will own up to any mistakes that I make that I know I made. Thanks though. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
njasshole 0 #85 April 30, 2005 QuoteI hear ya. Man. It's okay. I'm only jumping with my 4 way team now. And no, he's not part of it. Excuse me for interjecting, but to me this doesn't seem like the proper attitude. How shitty are you going to feel if, when he starts jumping with another group, he goes through one of their canopies and kills someone on the jump? Wouldn't working with him a bit be the better option? Remediating his poor awareness and tracking ability would not only make you safer in the sky (you, of course, still have the option of not jumping with him) but everyone else as well. Point him in the right direction at least. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuperKat 0 #86 April 30, 2005 QuoteExcuse me for interjecting, but to me this doesn't seem like the proper attitude. How shitty are you going to feel if, when he starts jumping with another group, he goes through one of their canopies and kills someone on the jump? Wouldn't working with him a bit be the better option? Dude, obviously you're not reading the previous posts. I will talk to him with a JM together and point out the problem to him. QuoteRemediating his poor awareness and tracking ability would not only make you safer in the sky (you, of course, still have the option of not jumping with him) but everyone else as well. Point him in the right direction at least. That's what the jumpmaster will do for him. And I'm committed to a 4 way team now. What am I going to do? Invite him to jump with us when it's strictly a 4 way team? I'm not the team captain so I can't make that kind of call. I was invited to join the team and I do what the team captain says. I understand what you're saying though. I appreciate your concernn for my buddy. However, myself and at least 5 other people have pointed out his mistakes to him in the past. We even showed him how to correct his bad habits. He's just the kind of guy that doesn't get it, even after 6 or 7 lectures. All I can do is talk to him with a JM. He's always good if it's just a 2 way. He's safe and what not. However, when you add more people in the mix he sometimes can be a hazard with them. I will mention to him and the JM that he should just concnetrate on 2 way for now. I think that's the best suggestion I can offer him so that he can grow to be a safe skydiver. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firefighter65 0 #87 May 1, 2005 Yes i have read all the post messages, and i was very wrong at not tracking far enough away before i deployed my parachute.It is better to admit being wrong then putting the blame on the other person. I know what i must do to keep myself and the other people i jump with from getting hurt or worst.i have talk to some of the JM on the drop zone for better advice on tracking. Thank you for all your advice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firefighter65 0 #88 May 1, 2005 I have read all the posting of my poor separation at which i was to close. Yes i was wrong not tracking far enough and thank God we were not hurt or worst. I will get advice from any JM or person that will better my tracking. We have a great drop zone with so my people that help each other and care for the safety of each other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuperKat 0 #89 May 1, 2005 Quote I have read all the posting of my poor separation at which i was to close. Yes i was wrong not tracking far enough and thank God we were not hurt or worst. I will get advice from any JM or person that will better my tracking. We have a great drop zone with so my people that help each other and care for the safety of each other. Just to set the record straight. PJ at the DZ had a long talk with me. He said that I act like a know it all. I'm sorry if I came across that way. I don't think that I know it all. And I know that I was 100% wrong on this skydive. So for the record, buddy, it was all my fault. I should have looked out for you. It was a poor decision on my part to only look out for the other tracker and not for you too. Next time, I will be more alert. And no more getting money shots for me. I almost cost us both of our lives and I'm sorry for that. We'll work on some things together, just the two of us. I think that's more important then being in a 4 way team. I want us both to be safe skydivers. I think we can do that by working together exclusively and talking with other JMs and coaches. I feel like such an ahole about all this. I hope you forgive me. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenediktDE 2 #90 May 3, 2005 QuoteI only ask because I told the dude about this problem and I even showed him the video. He thought that we weren't that close. When I saw the video I first thought "URGH!", then "I would have a long talk to that guy before jumping with him again." Now after you tell me he still thing it was not that bad I am rather sure that I would prefer to jump with someone else and not him. Glad you are doing fine!For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenediktDE 2 #91 May 3, 2005 I do not want to sound like the not-even-100-jump-wonder, but after seeing the second video I saw something very confusing: Look at your heading: You look in the direction of the yellow jumper. During the pull sequence you perfectly stay in the heading. Your chute opens perfectly sweet in heading and when you look up we see the close jumper deploying in front of you. How can this happen?For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salsa_John 0 #92 May 3, 2005 I have been within 600-1000' of another diver and been told I was too close.....so, hell yes! "You did what?!?!" MUFF #3722, TDSM #72, Orfun #26, Nachos Rodriguez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
