squirrelgirl 0 #101 September 17, 2009 Thank you for this. I think the problem here is people assuming I need the help and not asking before they touch the rig. I don't really know if their level of experience matters so much as the common courtesy to ask before grabbing. That said, still a student here, I need gear checks. The license will come as soon as weather cooperates! You are right about being new and female at the DZ. There are apparently a million right ways to do things and everyone seems to think their way is best. I've taken to just asking one guy whom I trust because I know he will give me honest answers. As for the gear checks, he pointed out three people and said "don't let them touch your stuff." I guess airing on the side of caution applies here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doug.mcilwraith 0 #102 September 17, 2009 Fair one. Don't be too harsh on the guy who's trying to help you out though. Depends on the dropzone/person. At my home DZ I've definitely gear checked (inc reserve pins, AAD) those just off student status even if they have not asked. I caught one of a my FS students with an AAD not switched on once. He'd swore blind he'd turned it on. Turned out that he had - shortly before swapping the kit he had hired. Thats why BPA regs state that A license holders must have a visible AAD check. With our hire/student kit this incorporates a reserve pin check also due to AAD placement. As a student, or just off student status, don't be shy to talk to your JM, espcially at new DZ's. Let him/her know what you are up to and your skill level. As you start to progress you'll get to figure out who you want touching your kit and who you don't. Bottom line is, once off student status, *your* kit its ultimately *your* responsibility. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SabreDave 0 #103 September 17, 2009 Quote I jump a main ripcord with spring-loaded pilot chute. Why?SabreDave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #104 September 17, 2009 QuoteTen points to anyone who can figure out what sort of DZ might have such trouble regularly. Oooh oooh I know ... pick me, pick me! A DZ (Hollister's the one I've jumped at, though I'm sure there are others) in which the airport and the landing area are at substantially different elevations. At Hollister it's a 450 ft offset, for example. So what can I get with my 10 points??"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #105 September 17, 2009 Quote Quote I jump a main ripcord with spring-loaded pilot chute. Why? Probably for the same reason there is a RESERVE ripcord and a spring loaded pilot-chute on your rig...IT WORKS! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #106 September 17, 2009 Quote Probably for the same reason there is a RESERVE ripcord and a spring loaded pilot-chute on your rig...IT WORKS! It doesnt work nearly as well as the more simple BOC. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #107 September 17, 2009 >A DZ (Hollister's the one I've jumped at, though I'm sure there are others) in >which the airport and the landing area are at substantially different elevations. >At Hollister it's a 450 ft offset, for example. Exactly! At Brown the "normal" route back to the DZ never went below the level of the LZ. However, if you took an unusual route, you could drop as much as 100ft below the level of the LZ - and that would reset the cypres. And given the amount of debriefing, chatter, bragging, video review etc that went on in the bus, it's something that someone could easily overlook. >So what can I get with my 10 points?? One free (good) beer from the von novak stash. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #108 September 17, 2009 Quote Quote Probably for the same reason there is a RESERVE ripcord and a spring loaded pilot-chute on your rig...IT WORKS! It doesnt work nearly as well as the more simple BOC. Right...Reachin' for something ya can't see, hoping ya un-collapsed the pilot-chute and the kill thingie isn't wearing out, and that there is enough force to pull the pin. . . or Look at the handle, pull it...opening the container and letting the spring in the pilot-chute launch & open it. Um...they use 'em on reserves BECAUSE it's more simple. Three reasons they went out of 'style' for the main~ Bulky, heavy, and the burbles of the 70's big-wing suits. 1st they put 'em on the belly band, then the leg strap, then the bottom of the main tray behind you...next thing ya know they'll hide it inside the container~oh wait, that's where my pull out is! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #109 September 17, 2009 Quote Right...Reachin' for something ya can't see, you cant necessarily see the ripcord of the spring loaded either. Quote hoping ya un-collapsed the pilot-chute and the kill thingie isn't wearing out, You shouldnt just "hope" the kill line is in order. You need to maintain your gear. However even if it brakes the PC will still work. It just wont collapse. and that there is enough force to pull the pin. . . The question of how much force it generates is not dependant of the PC being spring or not. Mainly the size and material determines that. The few times I have used a spring loaded caused me trouble almost every time. The spring PC can easily go over the canopy and get tangled in the lines. Very often it gets stuck in the burble and causes a delay. It is a pain in the ass to pack also. The type of ripcord that was in use on the Wings system I used had to be stowed away inside your jump suit after opening. (you can easily loose it) The type of vinyl material of the ripcord was very prone to get dented and could easily be stuck on the loop causing a mal. I cannot find a single reason for using one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrflyPimpDaddy 0 #110 September 18, 2009 This thread (that I started) is the exact reason why DZ.com is for entertainment only................. ONLY. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #111 September 18, 2009 I cannot find a single reason for using one. Then pay attention, there is gonna be a quiz later! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #112 September 18, 2009 QuoteQuoteI jump a main ripcord with spring-loaded pilot chute. Why? Because I like dangerous and unreliable parachute equipment. The previous discussion on this seems to no longer be available. And I'm not going to go through it all over again. This is not what this thread is about, so we should stick to the subject here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gearless_chris 1 #113 September 18, 2009 QuoteThis thread (that I started) is the exact reason why DZ.com is for entertainment only................. ONLY. When I first started reading this thread this morning the show "Shockwave" came on. It had skydiving at Rantoul on it, you know, the one where the guy climbs out of the plane and his main falls out and goes over the tail. They seemed to think that it was dangerous for everyone else too, just because it might have taken the whole plane down if the tail had been ripped off. JaNette from SDC Rythm XP says it's ridiculous to not do a pin check, it only takes a few seconds, your not cool by refusing to have it checked. Everyone normally gets up for "gear checks" a few thousand feet before exit right? The last check of 3's before exit. My friend Mike had his D-bag fall out on the step beside him once when he was climbing out, and I know of 3 other times when someone had a container come open premature. I would bet that the pins were in when they were packed, they just didn't stay in. John Rich, the pin is in too far in your picture, it shouldn't be past the end of the flap. Thank God they don't make them like they used to, although at Archway they have modern Wings student gear with spring loaded pilot chutes."If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane. My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aphid 0 #114 September 18, 2009 I'm with you. "3 years & 1200 jumps" does not constitute massive amounts of knowledge. Valuable opinions, yes. But experienced enough to advise others what to do (or not). Not on their life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #115 September 18, 2009 Quote I'm with you. "3 years & 1200 jumps" does not constitute massive amounts of knowledge. Valuable opinions, yes. But experienced enough to advise others what to do (or not). Not on their life. Yet an identical opinion from 5500 jumps and 15 years is valid? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #116 September 18, 2009 QuoteDoesn't matter to me how long it takes. I do gear checks the same way, checking the same things, every time, regardless of how many times I've jumped that day. So it takes an extra minute (MAYBE - 20 Seconds, and that is taking time to do it properly!) to open and reclose the flap - I'd much rather be a minute late to the loading area than be wrong in thinking that everything was still okay under there. What really surprises and dismays me is that we now have two AFF instructors, both of whom talk a lot about safety to others on a regular basis, stating publicly that they don't bother to check their reserve pin more than once a day because it's not easy. Agreed whole heartedly - what a well placed post! A good AFF-I understands that teaching others to skydive has little to do with freefall skills and everything to do with safety and will lead by example.Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #117 September 18, 2009 How would anyone of you feel if you encouraged another skydiver to “self-check” using the finger, which is great for checking almost everything, and then that skydiver you taught to do this burned in as a result of an un-cocked collapsible kill-line pilot chute? You cannot check bridle window color with you end of your finger and yes, it should be gear checked before boarding, but everyone makes mistakes, especially when trying to make a short call. I have found over the course of the years 2 un-cocked pilot chutes in pre-exit checks both by experienced jumpers who were simply in a bit of a rush and made a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes…Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyBoyd 0 #118 September 18, 2009 Here's my two cents, as someone with 20 years in the sport and a good weekend away from 6,000 jumps. I will accept a pin check if someone I trust asks. I strongly prefer that low or inexperienced jumpers not fool around with my gear in the airplane. I always check my main and reserve pin before putting gear on, and I will ask for a pin check if I lean up against something in a strange way or if my rig has been pushed or shoved from behind in the airplane. Usually, I just check with my hand to see if the main flap is securely closed before I exit. My reasoning is that I have checked the gear on the ground, and if nothing unusual has happened to my rig on the way to altitude, and the flap is securely closed, that is all I need to know that the pin is secure. I do see a potential downside to pin checks. Some jumpers' flaps are very tight. I have been asked to do pin check on these folks' gear, and I have struggled to get the flap open and closed. I am always afraid that in these cases I might inadvertently dislodge a pin that was securely set, or that I might not completely secure a flap, causing it to come loose in freefall. These pin checks could end up doing much more harm than good. I have seen one very experienced jumper inadvertently dislodge a main pin on the ground during a pin check of another jumper's gear. So it can happen. I will now await my flaming from the "always get a pin check or you're an idiot" crowd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #119 September 18, 2009 I think it was Twardo (Jim) I was speaking to about this topic at the loading tent one day and the concern of getting checked by someone who does not know how to properly check gear making a mistake was mentioned. Then Jim said something like; “but I would fully trust any skydiver who learned at Spaceland to give me a gear check”. Waz that you Twad? We place great emphasis on gear knowledge here in our curriculum, so much so that students I am working with will give me, their instructor a full gear check prior to boarding and prior to exit from their very first solo. At first supervised, then usually by jump 2 or 4 they are doing it unsupervised. If I am doing my job then I should be able to trust that the students I am and have trained completely understand how to properly give a full gear check. Any skydiver, especially a newbie who does not know how to properly perform a full gear check had an instructor(s) that failed to appropriately do their job and teach thoroughly. All solo freefall instructors that work here at Spaceland must have this attitude concerning safety and leading by example in our safety practices. So if you know anyone out there you would not trust to give you a gear check, why not take a few minutes out of your busy schedule, pull them to the side and teach that person how to do it correctly? The life you save may be your own. Skydivers have been injured, even killed as a direct result of not receiving gear checks prior to exit by another skydiver, far more I would assume than have been injured or killed as a direct result of getting a check by another skydiver – far far more. Teaching others to not receive gear checks is simply a blatant disregard for that person’s life and we teach others largely by examples we set ourselves…Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sapphire 0 #120 September 18, 2009 I guess I may be stupid here - but for CAT F - aren't we supposed to do full gear checks? If everyone is turning them down, how are we supposed to do these and learn to do these effectively? "One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar" ~ Helen Keller Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #121 September 18, 2009 QuoteI think it was Twardo (Jim) I was speaking to about this topic at the loading tent one day and the concern of getting checked by someone who does not know how to properly check gear making a mistake was mentioned. Then Jim said something like; “but I would fully trust any skydiver who learned at Spaceland to give me a gear check”. Waz that you Twad? We place great emphasis on gear knowledge here in our curriculum, so much so that students I am working with will give me, their instructor a full gear check prior to boarding and prior to exit from their very first solo. At first supervised, then usually by jump 2 or 4 they are doing it unsupervised. If I am doing my job then I should be able to trust that the students I am and have trained completely understand how to properly give a full gear check. Any skydiver, especially a newbie who does not know how to properly perform a full gear check had an instructor(s) that failed to appropriately do their job and teach thoroughly. All solo freefall instructors that work here at Spaceland must have this attitude concerning safety and leading by example in our safety practices. So if you know anyone out there you would not trust to give you a gear check, why not take a few minutes out of your busy schedule, pull them to the side and teach that person how to do it correctly? The life you save may be your own. Skydivers have been injured, even killed as a direct result of not receiving gear checks prior to exit by another skydiver, far more I would assume than have been injured or killed as a direct result of getting a check by another skydiver – far far more. Teaching others to not receive gear checks is simply a blatant disregard for that person’s life and we teach others largely by examples we set ourselves… ...what I said was, I would trust anybody taught by YOU. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #122 September 18, 2009 Quote ...what I said was, I would trust anybody taught by YOU. Hey man, I'm just representing ~ I could agree with you - But then we'd BOTH be wrong!Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #123 September 18, 2009 QuoteHere's my two cents, as someone with 20 years in the sport and a good weekend away from 6,000 jumps. I will accept a pin check if someone I trust asks. I strongly prefer that low or inexperienced jumpers not fool around with my gear in the airplane. I always check my main and reserve pin before putting gear on, and I will ask for a pin check if I lean up against something in a strange way or if my rig has been pushed or shoved from behind in the airplane. Usually, I just check with my hand pretty much exactly my position I will thank someone for offering every time whether I let them actually to the check or not. I absolutely resent someone that does it 'stealth' style. They could be a Master Rigger, but still should be courteous enough to tell me first. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
