Denying a pin check

[DSE 3]

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This is understandable, but something I'd obviously not thought of.

The few times I've been on a solo jump, others have bent me over and checked my rig for me, giving it that slap to let me know all is well. They aren't my instructors, some of them weren't even coaches. But I thought they were being nice and a third check never hurt.

Am I wrong?

For the time being, hopefully you're asking them before they ask you, but in any event, they should be asking before grabbing. It's just common etiquette and a habit everyone should have before touching someone else' rig.

[rehmwa 2]

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I prefer to pin check myself.
I can reach both pins, no issues and feel the bridle all the way to the d-bag. This would be my third pin check prior to exit. If I have issues or something doesn't feel right, I'll ask for help.
Thanks for asking though!

Exactly - but thanks for asking before touching my stuff - I know you meant well - I'll do mine personally - if agree for you to check it or I even ask - thanks - give me a thumbs up when finished, don't slap the rig - isn't it obvious that the slap is stupid

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[sdctlc 0]

Not big deal to me as I say would and have said "no thanks" to that request in the past.... I check the gear before I get on the plane and unless there is some reason for me to think I need that last look I don't want to have anybody check...

Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[pirana 0]

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If you dont trust them for something that simple then you shouldnt be on a jump with them.

YOu guys are IDIOTS

If only it were that simple. People have given a few good reasons but you dismiss them and resort to name calling. Again, if there is reason to suspect a problem (recognized by me or anybody else) then let's take a look; but to poke around without cause is not appropriate and IMO has more potential for problems than leaving it alone. Especially if your emphasis is just to check the pin. My bridle has about 1/2" of exposure, so again, IMO, unless something has happened (such as flap or bridle dislodged) you are far more likely to cause a problem than fix one.

Trust goes both ways. Why don't you trust experienced jumpers to know when a check is called for?

BTW, you are wrong in assuming all experienced people know what they are looking for, wrong in saying opening a flap has no effect on pack job (you will have to pull the flap, which has the potential to disturb the bridle not to mention you must touch the bridle itself), and maybe you need to be more careful yourself. Do you bang around inside the plane so much that you are constantly worried your pin is dislodged? No way my pin gets dislodged without disturbing the flap or bridle, which can be easily inspected visually without touching my gear.

That being said, there are a very small number of people I do trust enough to let them touch it after me. They would be the people that have a touch, feel, and understanding of gear that I trust. But nobody else but me has put hundreds of jumps on it, and that counts for a lot.

For me, and obviously I am not alone, my gear is very personal, and leads me to be extremely cautious about who touches it once I have it on. If that makes me an idiot in your eyes, . . . oh well.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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I prefer to pin check myself.
I can reach both pins, no issues and feel the bridle all the way to the d-bag. This would be my third pin check prior to exit. If I have issues or something doesn't feel right, I'll ask for help.
Thanks for asking though!

Exactly - but thanks for asking before touching my stuff - I know you meant well - I'll do mine personally - if agree for you to check it or I even ask - thanks - give me a thumbs up when finished, don't slap the rig - isn't it obvious that the slap is stupid

You know, I sometimes do that. For me, probably a remnant from messing with cars. Also, maybe kinda like the good-to-go slap on the butt thing. Not that I do that myself but when you think about it the slap on the butt serves no purpose either other than getting to touch someone's ass. I suppose it might serve some sort of pecking order purpose, or feeling out for romance purpose.

Anyway, in case you are in here but not looking at PM's, I PM'd you on a separate topic, having nothing to do with slapping YOU on the ass; however, is your wife going to be at the DZ this weekend?

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[JohnRich 4]

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...give me a thumbs up when finished, don't slap the rig - isn't it obvious that the slap is stupid

For a pin check, perhaps. But not all slaps are stupid.

For example, when someone is spotting, their head should be out the door looking at the ground, and scanning the surrounding sky for other aircraft. If they're constantly looking back inside to see if the green light is on, then they're being distracted from that important job they're doing for the entire load. So in that case, I want someone sitting next to that spotter to give them a slap to let them know when the green light comes on. That way they can be diligent to their spotting duties, and still know instantly when the pilot has cleared the load to jump.

I see too many people in the door just give a cursory glance outside, then squat there and stare at the green light for a long time, never again bothering to look outside.

[riggerrob 558]

Slapping the reserve flap (pin cover) used to be popular here.
But after the grumpy, old, gray-bearded, master rigger replaced too many cracked plastic stiffeners, we changed it to a slap on the shoulder, thumbs up and "pins are good."

[riggerrob 558]

A lot of containers allow you to glance at the pins from the side, eliminating the need to open any pin covers.
Granted, this requires plenty of light and a bit of room to move around in the airplane.

[riggerrob 558]

Back in the mid-1990s, you could buy purpose-built Talons and Reflexes with extra-wide riser covers to conceal bulky CF risers.
People will continue to tease you about your ugly gear until you update it to match circa 1995 fashions.

[billvon 2,391]

> First of all, the OP said everyone on that load was experienced, so there would
> be no issue with someone not knowing what they were looking for.

Many experienced SoCal jumpers have never pin checked a Racer, because there are almost none out here.

>Most pin checks in the plane before exit only consist of a main pin check.

"Pin check" means "check your pins." You can ask for a main pin check if you like, of course. Note that to get a reserve pin check you do not need to pull open flaps. On most rigs you can separate the top flap just enough to peek in sideways to see that the pin is through the loop and seated correctly.

>If they dont know how to open and close flaps they wouldnt be on a 35 way!!!

In my experience that's a dangerous assumption. Most people on larger dives can pin check most kinds of gear, but "most" does not equal "all."

> Everybody on that load has the right to check your gear!

They have the right to ask; I have the right to say no.

>If you dont trust them for something that simple then you shouldnt be on a
>jump with them.

That's as foolish as saying "if you don't trust your ability to pack and check your own gear you are not competent enough to be jumping at all." Gear checks can help when done correctly; done incorrectly they can be worse than useless.

[skypuppy 1]

stay away from my gear....

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[captain_stan 0]

Overheard in airplane:

"Hey Stan, you want a gear check?"

"Why, is a flap open?"

"Nope"

"Is the bridle hangin' out?"

"Nope"

"Thanks for the gear check!"

Explanation: I have enough people trying to kill me outside the airplane without someone trying to do it before exit.

[nerd137 0]

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Explanation: I have enough people trying to kill me outside the airplane without someone trying to do it before exit.

lol... awesome

[rehmwa 2]

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So in that case, I want someone sitting next to that spotter to give them a slap to let them know when the green light comes on.

fine - though, strangely enough we do that, except we just put a thumbs out in front of the 'spotter' - that or an ass pinch

and frankly, glancing in at the light isn't a distraction from checking the airspace, but I appreciate you taking as seriously as it deserves


anyway, I'm just talking slapping the gear after a check - not ass slap, shoulder slap, helmet slap, flicking the nose, or otherwise saying in a physical manner "you da man now let's get outta her"

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[topdocker 0]

Yes, I have several of the talons, including a brand new FX, and those work great, but at the time we were sponsored by another container manufacturer and had to switch. That rig was redone and added onto and reworked again, but the riser covers never stayed closed. Just cuz its new doesn't mean it looks pretty! Now we're back to Rigging Innovations and love it!!

So, thanks for the heads up on modern gear!

Top

Jump more, post less!

[skybytch 259]

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And then when the close the flap, there's a good possibility they'll close the tuck tabs incorrectly, causing me a problem.

John makes an excellent point. I've already had to have the tuck tab on my main flap replaced because the stiffener inside had broken from being closed incorrectly.

Anybody that I know and trust is welcome to give me a pin check with or without asking me. Anyone that I don't know and trust, I'd MUCH prefer that they not mess with my rig, period.

I check the rig before I put it on and I get a gear check from someone I trust before I get on the plane. Shortly before jump run, after checking my straps and handles, I check both the main and reserve flaps with my hand. If something feels amiss in any of those areas, I can then ask someone to eyeball the pin or pc or whatever it is that doesn't feel right, just to be sure.

I also wouldn't force a pin check on any experienced jumper who didn't know and trust me (I would probably force one on a novice that knows I'm an instructor though). Ask me and I'd be happy to. If I see an issue on your gear from the other side of the plane, I'll say something. Other than that, you're a big grown up skydiver. If you think you need a pincheck, I'm going to assume that you know how to ask for one.

[airtwardo 6]

Do not touch my gear...and stay off my lawn!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[denete 2]

I make no assumptions with the people on the plane.

I ask for pin checks before boarding the aircraft, or in flight only if the person is a rigger or they jump the same container that I jump.

Only once has someone started to check my rig without asking and I had to ask them to stop.

SCR #14809

"our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe"
(look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch)

[wildcard451 0]

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Do not touch my gear...and stay off my lawn!

If I ask you for a pin check, then I trust you to fiddle with my gear. If I don't, please don't touch anything on me. Point out and get my attention to whatever you want, but don't touch until I tell you to.

/hate people that try to close his riser covers on hop and pops...

[Tolgak 0]

I've had to tell a few people to lay off my rig before; not because I didn't trust them, but because it's better learning this from a guy who doesn't get pissed than from an angry and red guy about to jump.

Dropzones are terrible places for inspiration. What does one think when one looks up for a sign only to see a bunch of people falling?

[billeisele 122]

a bunch of folks jumping today don't know jack about gear

if I want a pin check I'll ask for one, otherwise hands off

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[pms07 3]

If you are the type that wants a pin check on each and every jump, okay. Just don’t assume this applies to everyone. Personally, I’ve never understood the obsession with “pin checks” for experienced jumpers on modern skydiving gear.
The best analogy I can come up with that helps demonstrate this is being a pilot. When I fly an airplane, I preflight it myself. I don’t ask someone else to check that the fuel covers are secure or that I removed the control locks. I do this myself. In fact if someone else refueled the airplane, I personally check the gas caps/covers again. Flying something with retractable gear? I don’t ask someone else to confirm the gear is down. Rather I use a methodological approach and checklists. The same concept works in skydiving and the gear is much less complex.
Here’s a summary for anyone not following along;
-Lots of experienced jumpers do not want anyone touching their gear, especially without permission.
-If you “pin check” a fellow jumper’s gear without asking, you may not get a favorable reaction.
- The concept of a “visual” pin check should be interpreted very literally. In others words you may LOOK at my gear but keep your hands off. Please let me know if something looks incorrect.
-Lots of people don't know much about their own gear, much less the gear others may be wearing. Assuming someone knows about your gear because they are on a 35-way is foolish.
-A "pin check" done improperly can cause problems that many would like to avoid. Simple shit like closing a main pin cover flap seems easy but some will get it wrong.
-“Preflighting” your own gear is easy and recommended….before every jump. Doing this with modern gear will likely eliminate the need for a pin check in most circumstances. Unusual circumstances or you aren’t sure? Ask for assistance.

[Airman1270 0]

...others have bent me over and checked my rig for me, giving it that slap to let me know all is well. They aren't my instructors, some of them weren't even coaches...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Huh? So now "coaches" are not only better qualified to jump with newbies than us mere mortals, but are better qualified than the rest of us to give pre-jump gear checks?

Whenever the subject of pin checks is brought up it brings back memories. As a fresh new graduate in 1985 I asked an experienced instructor/rigger for a gear chack and was pretty much reprimanded for doing so. Perplexed and confused I sought advice regarding the matter. When the club leadership learned I had done so they kicked me off the DZ.

In retrospect I think he was just trying to get me past the "student" mentality and learn to take responsibility for myself, but I never could figure out why I deserved to be banned for life. Oh well...

Cheers,
Jon S.

[Kami-kaze 0]

OK, I can check my pin by reaching my hand behind me.
I know how it should feel so no problem...
Actually I started this practice after going to Eloy.
I got a pin check from a member of Airspeed and he snapped the stiffner in my flap. Got a bit disappointed that who ever it was didn't tell me or apologize, I found out later on the ground. No drama, but since then no one touches my pin.

[Chubba 0]

How are you guys checking your own pins?

Are you reaching back, popping your flap, feeling the pin then redoing the flap without looking?

I'm a bit confused here or perhaps I'm extremely unflexible.