Ketia0 0 #1 September 4, 2009 hurts!! I was setting up my pattern, and didnt get it set up in enough time. i tried to do a slow flat turn, but it turned into a fast dive. I flared VERY hard and tried running as soon as i hit the ground, but i just colapsed and hit hard. drug me for about 15 feet. got a good talking to by my former insturctor and another instructor. well, guess i will stick with a 230 till i can guarntee a stand up landing. My old instructor and I talked about where i messed up. He gave me some pointers. That Sucked!!!"In this game you can't predict the future. You just have to play the odds. "-JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,116 #2 September 4, 2009 Quite frankly, this sounds like a happy ending. You walked away, even if not gracefully. You made a mistake (who hasn't) and have learned from it. And thanks for sharing -- maybe someone else won't be too cavalier about being able to turn low. See you there again soon, I hope Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sangi 0 #3 September 4, 2009 What canopy model/size were you jumping and how much do you weigh?"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ghost47 18 #4 September 4, 2009 QuoteI flared VERY hard and tried running as soon as i hit the ground, but i just colapsed and hit hard. drug me for about 15 feet. got a good talking to by my former insturctor and another instructor. Frown well, guess i will stick with a 230 till i can guarntee a stand up landing. Because you talked to your instructors, anything they say should supersede anything I say. But did they recommend that you PLF in those situations instead of trying to run it out? That sounds like a better idea to me. Personally, I think that, while stand-up landings can be a good gauge of whether you're landing well, it's also important to PLF when the need arises. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squirrelgirl 0 #5 September 4, 2009 I had a landing like that once on AFF 6. Except I wasn't turning, the wind just sort of... picked me up and made me a rag doll. I got dragged on my face and had to explain abrasions and bruises for days to a bunch of coworkers! My nose still hurts a little, come to think of it. But we learn from these things and that is good stuff. I'm all winded out today, so I'm eager to try my hand at some better landings tomorrow. I am glad you are okay and that the only thing aching is your pride ;) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #6 September 4, 2009 Quote i tried to do a slow flat turn, but it turned into a fast dive. 1- Glad you're okay. 2- What technique were you using to do a flat turn? Were you using half brakes? 3- Remember that while it is nice to face into the wind for landing, the important thing is to land with your wings (parachute) level, not in a radical turn. Better to land straight and downwind/crosswind than to land in a turn. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,381 #7 September 4, 2009 A few suggestions - Once you have any inkling the landing might not be a good one do NOT try to run! Get ready for a PLF. (Regular if low forward speed, sliding if lots of forward speed.) If you are diving too much in your flat turns, add more opposite toggle. Once you get close to the ground, level the wing before you start to flare. If you're really low do both at once. You get the most flare power with the wing above you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #8 September 4, 2009 Quote My old instructor and I talked about where i messed up. He gave me some pointers. If you don't mind posting them, others might find those pointers helpful too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ketia0 0 #9 September 4, 2009 QuoteWhat canopy model/size were you jumping and how much do you weigh? I was flying a sabre 230. i wiegh 200"In this game you can't predict the future. You just have to play the odds. "-JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ketia0 0 #10 September 4, 2009 Quote If you don't mind posting them, others might find those pointers helpful too. 2- What technique were you using to do a flat turn? Were you using half brakes? I had my left toggle by my shoulder and my right toggle level with my head. it was doing a nice turn at first but, it just dove... My insturctors told me.. 1. Dont turn like that below 100 feet. Just land it. even if crosswind. 2. if i start the flare to early DONT let up. just ride it out and PLF. 3. DONT try and run it out and stop the fall with your hands. 4. have the flight pattern visualized before you jump.. there were some other things, but this was the jist of it. He was really cool about it. after that one i had good landings! plus i got to jump with Jim some more!!!! got 4 jumps in today!! pretty sweet!!!"In this game you can't predict the future. You just have to play the odds. "-JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #11 September 5, 2009 QuoteI had a landing like that once on AFF 6. Except I wasn't turning, the wind just sort of... picked me up and made me a rag doll. Quite a few of us have had this happen, but it's rarely the wind rather than an uneven flare. You have to be looking ahead and adjusting as necessary, esp if you aren't coming in directly against the wind, which is most of the time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chubba 0 #12 September 5, 2009 Quote3. DONT try and run it out and stop the fall with your hands. Very important. It's not pretty, but let your body take the majority of the beating via a PLF... once you start sticking hands out and breaking them, there goes your livelihood. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squirrelgirl 0 #13 September 5, 2009 I thought it was all me, too. There was no flare to speak of and was told by my instructors that I was caught in a dust devil. I take full responsibility for screwing up and am harder on myself than I should be. I'm not trying to blame the weather for everything, but this time it wasn't working in my favor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #14 September 5, 2009 Two things~ 1~ I didn't see the landing but from what you explained to me, it sounded like what you did was slow down the canopy too much during initiation of the flat turn. You then let up into full flight which caused the canopy to surge & dive too low to fully recover with the subsequent flare. Do that shit up higher next time, give the wing enough altitude to recover, or hold 1/2 brakes and just finish the flare...2~ Were you prayin' on jump-run? Great jumping with you again Austin! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #15 September 5, 2009 Quote 2. if i start the flare to early DONT let up. just ride it out and PLF. If you flare too early and recognize it in the middle of the flare, stop your hands where they are for a few split seconds, then finish the flare at the appropriate time. After a while, your timing will improve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #16 September 5, 2009 Low turn, hard landing... Bad idea -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmfenaughty 0 #17 September 5, 2009 Try one of these (see attatchment) .... You got away lucky 99% of the people on this earth are sheep ... dare to be different Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ketia0 0 #18 September 5, 2009 Did you do a low turn?"In this game you can't predict the future. You just have to play the odds. "-JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ketia0 0 #19 September 5, 2009 Quote Two things~ 1~ I didn't see the landing but from what you explained to me, it sounded like what you did was slow down the canopy too much during initiation of the flat turn. You then let up into full flight which caused the canopy to surge & dive too low to fully recover with the subsequent flare. Do that shit up higher next time, give the wing enough altitude to recover, or hold 1/2 brakes and just finish the flare...2~ Were you prayin' on jump-run? Great jumping with you again Austin! It was good jumping with you too man! Now we need to do another two way with me and you!!! have fun in perris ( LOL, i know its Paris). let me know how it goes!!"In this game you can't predict the future. You just have to play the odds. "-JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmfenaughty 0 #20 September 6, 2009 Yea .. and I won't make that mistake again Badly comminuted fracture of my left femur, comminuted fracture of my pelvis, L2-L3-L4 transverse process. 99% of the people on this earth are sheep ... dare to be different Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darrenspooner 0 #21 September 7, 2009 This may sound like a trite, irrelevant and unhelpful thing to say but it has stood me in good stead and is like a mantra on every jump I do - there are two types of skydiver, those who have done a low turn and those that are going to. My AFF instructor gave me that little gem and it has meant that I have never taken a chance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #22 September 7, 2009 Im loading my Sabre2 190 at just under 1, try a harness turn, there may be some speed building up, but at that loading and size, I wouldnt think it would be much. Harness turns have saved my ass on a few landings where a toggle would have hurt. Ask Windsock to show you if no-body else is around."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #23 September 7, 2009 QuoteIm loading my Sabre2 190 at just under 1, try a harness turn, there may be some speed building up, but at that loading and size, I wouldnt think it would be much. Harness turns have saved my ass on a few landings where a toggle would have hurt. Ask Windsock to show you if no-body else is around. Toggles are going to let you turn a lot farther, especially when you have less speed or a larger canopy. There isn't any altitude limit to their use, although at zero altitude you can't put too much weight on the ground or stick a toe too far into water. This doesn't mean burying one toggle which can earn you a trip to the hospital or morgue. The restrictions are that your descent rate needs to be zero when you reach ground level and canopy enough over your head to affect a reasonable flare. That means that at low altitudes you never raise the toggles when you've dropped below trim speed since doing so will produce a forward surge where the canopy is no longer above you. You always turn with both toggles since that yields high turn rates with minimal roll with the canopy over your head. At ground level you need to add toggle fast enough to maintain level flight and get rid of your roll angle before running out of lift. Flat turns and flare turns are essential survival skills you need to learn before they're needed and before you downsize to a smaller canopy which will make learning them harder and more intimidating. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windsockwendy 0 #24 September 10, 2009 Austin I went through the same STP as you and jump 30 landed on the windsock from target fixation from 300 ft... I saw I was gonna land on the windsock but was afraid to do a "low turn" since so many people get hurt and I'm still new to the sport. I also got a nice "chat" with about EVERY one of the STP instructors... Hind sight is always 20/20 so just listen to all the good advice you got... there's plenty on here and I'm sure the STP instructors gave you good advice too. I use the harness turn ALOT and especially when I'm on my final approach (~300ft). I took that canopy course with Shannon from PD about a month ago and definitely try above your hard deck to see/feel how your canopy reacts to your manipulations. When I downsized, my first jump was a high pull at 10k and just practiced flaring with toggles and rear risers. Practice these in succession with (1) watching the horizon, (2) watching your canopy react, (3) feeling the difference between braking fast, medium, or slow, and then (4) do it with your eyes closed. Do that with flat turns and even one toggle turns to see/feel how your canopy reacts and what kind of decent rate you have when you're doing that. Another thing Shannon emphasized was that if you realize you have flared too high, don't let up, hold it until it is time to finish and PLF to save your bones! Honestly, one high pull made me so much more confident in my landing abilities after getting to "know" my canopy. But yea, don't do any kind of turns that low to the ground unless there's an object in your way. :) Hope this is helpful at least a tiny bit! See ya around the DZ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oozzee 0 #25 September 18, 2009 flat turns are rarely pretty but they can help avoid injury...I practice every now and then Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
