Percieved little risk?

[swoopfly 5]

hey all


i was just curious if after some of you have been in this sport for many years like me and many jumps later.....Do you now look at skydiving as not really a big risk???
Jumping from a plane has become second nature to me and i dont really feel like i am in much danger (as the normal wuffo would assume). I know parachutes malfunction and i will be ready when mine does, but overall i think my attitude towards skydiving is that it isnt to dangerous and a good canopy with a good pack job will open just about everytime. So i guess my question is, Have you who have been in this sport for years feel like after a long time of jumping you percieve skydiving as minimal risk?? Or maybe more a risk than when you started?

[DSE 3]

Statistics bear out that the longer you're in the sport (more jumps), that risk increases.
It's always a big risk. We just do the best we can to mitigate risk as much as possible. Sometimes, there is nothing you can do. Even though you did everything right.

[fastphil 0]

That's a dangerous perception that has caught more than one person I know off guard. It's natural though, and most car drivers suffer it...

[peek 20]

But there are always those people who are not as careful as you are!

I think the "basics" become a bit safer as you get more jumps and experience, but I don't count on it.

[dks13827 2]

it's a big risk, buddy !!!! extremely high speeds that make 70 mph in a car seem tame ....and of course you can run out of time, that's for sure. my belief is that each jumper can make the risk low enough to be acceptable though. The 8 'bounces' last year is far fewer than what we had years ago.. but of course the landing accidents.... that's something we old timers still can't understand, at least I cannot.
After you lose a couple of friends ( expert jumpers !!), you will understand a little better. Sad, but inevitable. You toast the great memories of them, and you go on.
I think that all jumpers understand that the risk of a reserve malfunction is not real high... that's the risk we all accept and understand. Reserves mals as such are NOT what kills people !!

[JohnMitchell 14]

There's a lot you can do to manage the risks in our sport. There's nothing you can do to eliminate them.

[skybytch 259]

I felt like you until around 15 years in the sport. At that point I began to realize just how big a risk skydiving is. At almost 20 years in, I'm beginning to wonder if the reward is still worth the risk.

Shit happens, and in skydiving it happens fast. I can do everything right and my gear can kill me. I can still accept that risk.

I can do everything right and someone else's mistake/ego/ignorance/inattentiveness can kill me. That's the risk I'm beginning to have problems accepting.

[swoopfly 5]

I"m aware that a each time you make a jump, that is another chance for tragedy to occur. yes statistically you are more at risk with more jumps (how could you not be), but people who have pulled off more jumps without incident....are they more likely to perceive what they do as not really dangerous? I guess i am also referring to the gear aspect of skydiving. Yes we all know someone can take you out of the sky, without you ever seeing it coming, Or other what if accidents that could occur. But for the gear aspect do some people think they wont get a good canopy above there head on the next jump?

[skymama 35]

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But for the gear aspect do some people think they wont get a good canopy above there head on the next jump?

Are you kidding? You should be thinking you'll have a gear malfunction on every jump. Complacency kills.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[swoopfly 5]

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But for the gear aspect do some people think they wont get a good canopy above there head on the next jump?

Are you kidding? You should be thinking you'll have a gear malfunction on every jump. Complacency kills.

I mean good canopy period!! If i really thought my reserve was going to malfunction i wouldent be jumping, i am aware its a risk....but i look at it as a little one

[format 0]

The street, houses in it, pavement (sidewalk) and cars partially parked on it.

I am the only jumper in my street, yet I'm the paranoid scared of passing cars.
Cheaper the car (?) - more of it is parked on pavement - so I gotta go around across the scary street.

I beleive neighbours are laughing at me, something like 'whata pussy'.

I never did it before I started jumping.
Skydiving has changed my perception of fear but fear of 'normal' living. Everything, everyday is a threat to my choice of risking life.

I really hope I am gonna stay this scared in skydiving to the end. Yep!

btw, wtf is complacency?

What goes around, comes later.

[BIGUN 1,053]

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Statistics bear out that the longer you're in the sport (more jumps), that risk increases.

Each exit is an independent event.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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Are you kidding? You should be thinking you'll have a gear malfunction on every jump. Complacency kills.

I'm pretty sure I can handle a malfunction. I'm 13 for 13 so far. It's the canopy collision at 200 ft above the ground that worries me.

[DSE 3]

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Statistics bear out that the longer you're in the sport (more jumps), that risk increases.

Each exit is an independent event.

How about if I word it to say "The more independent exit events you experience, the greater the statistical risk of an incident or malfunction?

One of the biggest issues is some become more complacent/comfortable as their experience and trust factor rises. Not everyone falls into this category.

[k-dubjumps 0]

I assess risk for a living and while the risk obviously isn't any less as time goes on it is possible people's perception of the risk could decrease. However, I think over time jumpers become more confident with what they are doing and that can be misperceived by others. As time goes on their knowledge and skill set increases. They hone in their flight skills (both in free fall and under canopy), they understand the differences in flight characteristics in canopies (elliptical vs non-elliptical, etc.), they keep up to date on equipment, training and technique, and they learn from mistakes (both their own and others'). As time goes on I think jumpers are more confident in knowing what to do in an emergency situation, does that mean they feel it is less likely to happen? Probably not, but they are better equipped to affect the outcome of that risk. That is why you will see jumpers doing their safety checks and practice handle pulls on they altitude, because we are all still fully aware that shit happens.

My personal opinion is that I think that most jumpers still feel that the risk of something going wrong is the same, but that they can affect the severity (i.e. outcome) of that risk. For example, do I feel the risk of getting kicked in the face during a 4-way is less? No. Do I feel like the risk of me getting my nose broken is less because I've upgraded to a full face helmet? Yes.

In general, when people feel like the risk has decreased for a given process, they are more likely to make mistakes or get sloppy. If you know of any skydivers who have developed this mentality, my advise would be to be weary of them because they are the ones more at risk of injuring themselves or someone else.

Adrenaline is my crack

DPH #3
D.S. #16 FAG #12 Muff Brother #4406

[ufk22 32]

Your attitude is very common at this stage of your skydiving, and very dangerous. I had it and almost everyone I know has. This is truly a "death sport", and I've lost enough friends and seen enough happen to people I know and don't know to now realize this.
I'm not talking about the statistical chances or the "shit happens", just reality.

_____________
Statistics bear out that the longer you're in the sport (more jumps), that risk increases.

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Each exit is an independent event.
____________
I don't pay any attention to this kind of stuff. Risk doesn't increase based on number of jumps unless you push the edge or get complacent. The independent event theory supposes that what will get you is just a matter of chance, which is also not true.
Granted, there is the chance, however slight, that through no fault of yourself or anyone else, you may die, but this is so rare as to be not worth considering.
Almost everyone that dies in this sport does so because they made a mistake (or more likely a series of small errors in judgement) or someone else made a mistake and they allowed themselves to be in a position to be affected by that other person's mistake.
i.e.
1. do your normal hook at-the-edge landing 5' too low, or do it at the normally right altitude and catch the smallest burble, you're dead.
2. Set up to land and not notice that other guy, or assume he sees you, collide and die.
3. Have a very minor problem, get just a little fixated, try to recover too late, and die.
The textbook malfunction isn't usually what's going to kill you. It's the little thing(s) that, as we become the least bit complacent, sneak up and bite.
If you feel like "i don't really feel like i am in much danger (as the normal wuffo would assume)", that's when you start missing that one little thing that starts the chain of events that can kill you.
But don't worry
"shit happens"

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[f1racer696 0]

although i am still very new. my belief is that as long as you know there is a very large risk. and you take those risks into concideration and asses what you are doing before each jump you will be okay. but as soon as you dont think what your doing is risky any more and you think you wont get hurt. THAT is when shit happens.

oh dude DUde DUDE BRO DUDE. omg DUDE! ummmmm. i forgot....

Dudeist Skydiver #61

[jcd11235 0]

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Statistics bear out that the longer you're in the sport (more jumps), that risk increases.

Can you elaborate?

I'm reading your statement as the skydiving version of the gambler's fallacy (e.g. if a fair roulette wheel comes up red nine times in a row, it is more likely to come up black next time). I readily acknowledge that I could be reading your statement differently than you intended.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[kunosoura 0]

yes. i was waiting for someone to mention the gambler's fallacy.

[format 0]

Yeah!
A regular skydivers with an "opignion" on gambler's vice!

Crawl out, please, you shy pretenders
no one's gonna bite you, he he

What goes around, comes later.

[NiteQwill 0]

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But for the gear aspect do some people think they wont get a good canopy above there head on the next jump?

Are you kidding? You should be thinking you'll have a gear malfunction on every jump. Complacency kills.

+1 Practice EP before every jump.

"Fail, fail again. Fail better."
-Samuel Beckett

[strop45 0]

Complacency kills, but here's the thing, we are human and as you jump more you will become more complacent. I like to think that I'm a heads-up skydiver who isn't more complacent now than I was on jump 1, but that's just fooling myself.

On balance I think that the added experience overcomes the complacency risk with all other things being equal. Of course as you get more experience you do risker things, you add camera gear, wingsuits, larger groups and of course smaller canopies...

It would be interesting to see some analysis of incidents to see if say there are more incidents between 0 and 100 jumps than between 1000 and 1100 jumps. Anecdotally, I'd say there are more cutaways at 0-100 jumps, but are there more injuries??

The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

[R6F4orR1 0]

Concerning the OP, you can ask those questions of just about any activity, not just skydiving. I have been riding motorcycles for 10 years and teaching motorcycle safety for 2 years. I am confident in my skills on a motorcycle, so much so that I don't get nervous anymore. It's not because I feel the risk isn't there, but because I know I have the skills necessary to make the split second decision necessary to save my ass. Does that mean I will be safe 100% of the time? Absolutely not. There are still factors outside of my control, but I have honed my skills and prepared myself for those "OH SHIT" moments.

When starting any high risk activity, whether skydiving, riding motorcycles, rock climbing, etc., you will notice many of the possible risks. Once you have become experienced in that activity, hopefully you are not overlooking the risks, but instead you have learned how to manage those risks and respond to them accordingly.

Teddy

[Kawigreen 0]

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Concerning the OP, you can ask those questions of just about any activity, not just skydiving. I have been riding motorcycles for 10 years and teaching motorcycle safety for 2 years. I am confident in my skills on a motorcycle, so much so that I don't get nervous anymore. It's not because I feel the risk isn't there, but because I know I have the skills necessary to make the split second decision necessary to save my ass. Does that mean I will be safe 100% of the time? Absolutely not. There are still factors outside of my control, but I have honed my skills and prepared myself for those "OH SHIT" moments.

When starting any high risk activity, whether skydiving, riding motorcycles, rock climbing, etc., you will notice many of the possible risks. Once you have become experienced in that activity, hopefully you are not overlooking the risks, but instead you have learned how to manage those risks and respond to them accordingly.

Teddy

Same here, been riding for about 15 years. Plenty of crashes, broken bones, surgery, and of course, I have multiple friends who have lost their lives riding. It sucks but its part of it. Every time I ride, I know it might be my last.
Just like skydiving, as you become more skilled, you handle problems quicker and better. Yes you become more comfortable, but you still know the risks... you just have more confidence in your ability to handle them.

[DSE 3]

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Statistics bear out that the longer you're in the sport (more jumps), that risk increases.

Can you elaborate?

I'm reading your statement as the skydiving version of the gambler's fallacy (e.g. if a fair roulette wheel comes up red nine times in a row, it is more likely to come up black next time). I readily acknowledge that I could be reading your statement differently than you intended.

Nope...Not at all. The more you do anything (I can name a skydiver who's ugly as sin, but he approaches every single woman he meets. And ends up with some very beautiful women) done repetitively enough not only generates greater skill, but greater ability to use those skills, but at the same time, when something that isn't part of the "norm" when using those skills, it can result in a less then skilled reaction.
Look at the jump number/incident ratios. They bear out what I've suggested.
As we gain more experience in the sport, we also add additional responsibilities in many cases (smaller parachutes, cameras, wingsuits, faster speeds with lower margins for error, CRW, etc).

I don't at all believe it's a gamble in the sense of odds.
Some don't make it to their A before multiple cutaways, some go well into their thousandth, and a very few never have had a non-intentional cutaway into thousands of jumps. Yet the averages speak for themselves.