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MALFUNCTION: what would you do if...?

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I think it's cute the way people treat this as if it's a purely academic hypothetical and not something that actually happens with all too much frequency.

I've seen more than my fair share of teams that have gone below the hard deck and had multiple Cypres fires.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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does anyone else skip over the giant essay posts, or is it just me?



All that is missing is a podium and an election year. They very seldom add anything to the mix.

IMHO the best course of action is to pull, pull, and pull. You have no friends under 2,000 feet.

Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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I want to agree with the others who said:

Immediately open my main

I know the reserve opens faster and hopefully I am paying attention to the likelihood of an aad fire resulting in 2 open canopies as my main is inflating.

The point is, we have all opened our mains far more often than we have gone straight to the reserve. It would burn precious time to deviate from my normal routine and time is the most precious thing you possess in that moment.

I would not consider the video guy at all. I have videoed my share of 4-way and I can tell you, I see the ground beyond my team. If you burn it anywhere near that low I seriously doubt I will be with you. I will however be videoing as I spiral down to watch where this all goes.
"... this ain't a Nerf world."

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Hi everyone - thanks for the advice and different opinions. It’s all useful food for thought.;)

First of all - yes I’m at 60 jumps, I’m a total n00b and a greenhorn. The only thing I know for sure is that I don’t know anything about skydiving! That’s been drummed into me and I believe it. My instructor has thousands of jumps under his belt and instructs for a living. I don’t question his advice, and while I understand there are differences of opinion about emergency procedures, even among experts, I would never discount anything he says. However, I do reserve the right to source a second opinion on everything I am told, and this is right and appropriate. I’m not the sort of person who unthinkingly follows instructions, or always accepts what I’m told at face value. I suspect most skydivers have similar mindsets.:)
Second, my instructor never gave me the correct answer to the question he posed! He just told me that I was wrong. He asked me to go back to the dropzone and talk to enough people so that I could many different viewpoints and opinions and try to work out the best course of action. I live in Australia, many miles from the dropzone I attend. I won’t be able to attend the dropzone for a while, so I decided to instead canvass opinion online, and I’m glad I did! I never benefited from the breadth of opinion at the DZ that I do in this forum.

Anyway, I now recognise my previous reasoning was flawed. I think if placed in this situation I would turn and pull the main and deal with any possible consequences from that point! :o

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I want to agree with the others who said:

Immediately open my main

I know the reserve opens faster and hopefully I am paying attention to the likelihood of an aad fire resulting in 2 open canopies as my main is inflating.

The point is, we have all opened our mains far more often than we have gone straight to the reserve. It would burn precious time to deviate from my normal routine and time is the most precious thing you possess in that moment.

I would not consider the video guy at all. I have videoed my share of 4-way and I can tell you, I see the ground beyond my team. If you burn it anywhere near that low I seriously doubt I will be with you. I will however be videoing as I spiral down to watch where this all goes.




I would turn track for 1-2 secs than pull my main in a track. Its only a 4-way, you should know where everyone is in the formation. When you pull, you should be able to imediately correct your heading away from anyone else.

The most important thing, take in that ground rush. Too many people don't appreciate this anymore.[:/]

Don't forget to option of a canopy transfer for a low docile malfunction. I had to do one this week.:ph34r: Too long of a story to go into detail.
If you're not living on the edge; you're taking up too much room!

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Don't forget to option of a canopy transfer for a low docile malfunction.

i was just going to mention that- id probably go for my main in this situation because it is instinct- byt the time ive found my reserve handle in freefall- precious seconds left and hope i will never be in that situation. but what of the possibility of a mal at this height? say you have no aad, pull immediately snivel for 700ft or so- 800ft left and theres a malfunction- spinning or whatever- not a lot of time to deal with it. Just dont go below pull height!!!!
Dudeist Skydiver #170
You do not need a parachute to skydive, you only need one to skydive again

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Ok ladies and gentlemen, here is the scenario!:

You are in a 4-way formation and all of a sudden notice you are at 1,500' - what would you do???

When my skydiving instructor asked me this question I said: turn-track 2-3 secs, pull reserve, and prepare to grab the rear risers to steer quickly out of any pending collision.

He didn't think much of this response! :S He said I'd have nowhere near enough time to track away from the group. He seemed to suggest that I should instead pull (the main!) straight away and deal with any consequences. Sounds crazy too me - a sure way of getting into a nasty mess! :(



USPA disagrees with your instructor, saying that below 1800 feet you should pull your reserve.

To quote the SIM regarding malfunctions:

4. You should decide upon and take the appropriate actions by a predetermined altitude:

a. Students and A-license holders: 2,500 feet.
b. B-D license holders: 1,800 feet

Obviously where the cut-away decision altitude is at least 1800 feet people need to have pulled before then.

This ignores that a 1500' pull can create 2-out situation with Cypreses, that smaller modern parachutes have exciting spinning malfunctions which result in harness distortion (so people have problems locating their handles) and hard-cutaways, etc. all of which make going for the reserve a better idea.

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Ah, thanks for the responses

When you say 'pull the silver' - I assume you're referring to pulling the reserve handle?

This makes sense because the reserve deploys a lot faster than the main!

I hope none on these forums every finds themselves in this situation! :o



People jump from planes at 2000 feet all day long. its called a hop n pop.



One second after your 2000 foot exit you're at 1984 feet, at two seconds you're at 1936 feet, at three seconds you're at 1856 feet which is approximately the USPA recommended cutaway decision altitude.

One second after reaching 2000 feet at terminal you're at 1834 feet.

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Show some fucking respect for your instructor who is teaching you.



While instructor ratings demonstrate some level of competence in freefall and with teaching students, they don't make people experts or even guarantee that their advice will agree with accepted practices.

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Dude if theres one thing i really had drilled into me while in AFF its pull priorities. i know i repeated it a million times. 1pull. 2pull at assigned alti. 3pull in a stable position.

if i notice im blowin through my assigned pull alti im throwin fabric. fuck doing anything else that will take more time. probably main sense i know for sure where it is. hopefully i will not have packed a long snivel.

well dont listen to me dude seriously dont. but it sounds like your interested in what others would do. i know i was after reading your post.

Briles
Why not?
My direction in life is up...then down again REALLY REALLY FAST!!!
Never take life too seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
D.S. #55

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Hi everyone - thanks for the advice and different opinions. It’s all useful food for thought.;)

First of all - yes I’m at 60 jumps, I’m a total n00b and a greenhorn. The only thing I know for sure is that I don’t know anything about skydiving! That’s been drummed into me and I believe it. My instructor has thousands of jumps under his belt and instructs for a living. I don’t question his advice, and while I understand there are differences of opinion about emergency procedures, even among experts, I would never discount anything he says. However, I do reserve the right to source a second opinion on everything I am told, and this is right and appropriate. I’m not the sort of person who unthinkingly follows instructions, or always accepts what I’m told at face value. I suspect most skydivers have similar mindsets.:)
Second, my instructor never gave me the correct answer to the question he posed! He just told me that I was wrong. He asked me to go back to the dropzone and talk to enough people so that I could many different viewpoints and opinions and try to work out the best course of action. I live in Australia, many miles from the dropzone I attend. I won’t be able to attend the dropzone for a while, so I decided to instead canvass opinion online, and I’m glad I did! I never benefited from the breadth of opinion at the DZ that I do in this forum.

Anyway, I now recognise my previous reasoning was flawed. I think if placed in this situation I would turn and pull the main and deal with any possible consequences from that point! :o



Sorry I got you wrong.
I was just concerned. My intentions were good.


.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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To be quite honest I'm not sure why one wouldn't automatically reach for the reserve - if its a faster deployment and there's less chance of having 2 canopies out! The reserve handle isn't difficult to find? its just a matter of reaching for the handle and giving it a good yank! ... right? [:/]

Also, some guy said earlier in the thread that in this situation he would reach for his mate's pilot chute. Think he was kidding? Is this realistic in practice? If it was within reach would you try this? :o

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To be quite honest I'm not sure why one wouldn't automatically reach for the reserve - if its a faster deployment and there's less chance of having 2 canopies out! The reserve handle isn't difficult to find? its just a matter of reaching for the handle and giving it a good yank! ... right?


For newer jumpers like you and me, it's almost certain that every jump has consisted of us reaching for and tossing out our pilot chute of our main canopy. In our minds, PULL = REACH FOR PILOT CHUTE AND THROW.

So imagine you've just realized you're at 1500 feet. You think "OH SHIT, I NEED TO PULL" and you likely will automatically reach for your pilot chute. (I would in fact, lay even money that you might even wave off.) In 1 second (or 2 if you've waved off), your pilot chute will be out, and your main will be sniveling.

Imagine instead after "OH SHIT, I NEED TO PULL" you think, "reserve or main? I'm at 1500, go for reserve!" So you reach for reserve in terminal, something you've never done before, and you pull. How long did all that take?

So the question is, which is faster:

1. Pull pilot for main, main snivels and opens.

2. Remember to pull reserve, find reserve, pull reserve, reserve snivels and opens.

Do whichever one you think is faster.

(The preceding analysis doesn't take into account an AAD and the danger of two out. You also need to factor in whether you're jumping a student or expert AAD.)

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To be quite honest I'm not sure why one wouldn't automatically reach for the reserve - if its a faster deployment and there's less chance of having 2 canopies out! The reserve handle isn't difficult to find? its just a matter of reaching for the handle and giving it a good yank! ... right? [:/]

Also, some guy said earlier in the thread that in this situation he would reach for his mate's pilot chute. Think he was kidding? Is this realistic in practice? If it was within reach would you try this? :o



You are going 120 mph, you have 8 sec. until impact and you only have 60+ jumps. I believe this would be classified as a stressful situation. Under those condition you will do what you have done in the past, pull your main. It will not be a conscious action; it will be an unconscious reaction.
You have 8 sec. at 1500 feet you decide what to do, 1 to 1.5 sec. gone. If you turn and pull, 2 more sec. gone maybe more. Remember you only have 60 jumps. You are now down to under 5 sec. to impact. The last 2 to 2.5 sec. doesn’t count because it is too late to do anything but confuse the riggers. That leaves you about 2 sec. to do with as you see fit. I don’t want to hear, well my AAD will save me. There has been more than one case where the AAD did just what it was designed to do and the jumper died because other components ran out of time. You see being at 1500 feet in freefall is scary, big time.
Now what you need to do is take all the little pieces of advice you have given and spend some time going over them. Make sure you understand what the poster means and if he understands what he means. When you have digested all these pearls of wisdom find someone at your drop zone to talk with you about them. Make sure this person has the time, the inclination and the knowledge help you out.
There are very few absolutes in skydiving because of the ever changing, dynamic conditions surrounding a jump. As long as you jump you will find yourself confronted with situation you have never seen, thought of or even heard of. At those times your best friend is knowledge. Learn as much as you can about this sport, the gear, the planes and the people. Then go out and learn more.
But always remember skydiving is recreation, have fun.

Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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You are in a 4-way formation and all of a sudden notice you are at 1,500' - what would you do???



I'd throw out the main pilot chute because I doubt I'll be quick enough to pull the reserve first. If it were a vertical formation I'd pull and flatten out at the same time. What happens next may or may not be interesting.

Passing 1500 feet, then turning a tracking is dumb. You're wearing a skydiving rig so pulling much lower than that is cutting all options down to nearly nothing. They're already close to nothing as it is.

If you see 1500 feet, the quickest reaction is still over 1 second. Turning and tracking will put you sub 1000 and most likely, with a sniveling main canopy.
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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He didn't think much of this response! :S He said I'd have nowhere near enough time to track away from the group. He seemed to suggest that I should instead pull (the main!) straight away and deal with any consequences. Sounds crazy too me - a sure way of getting into a nasty mess! :(

Anyway folks, thought I'd throw it open to you guys, I'm really interested in your points of view!




You are already in a nasty mess period. At your skill level go silver since your aad is likely to fire before you process the info needed to do anything.

If you first notice your altitude at 1500 you will be at or below cypress fire alt B|by the time you get your hand on anything.

Uncle/GrandPapa Whit
Unico Rodriguez # 245
Muff Brother # 2421

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does anyone else skip over the giant essay posts, or is it just me?



I skim, then usually end up skiping. There seems to be a direct negative correlation between length of post and value of content. Not a full blown -1, but definitely negative.

Skipping the repetitive superlatives and the insults would help to manage post length.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

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