Owning/Managing a Dropzone

[SPAWNmaster 0]

I've done some searches and haven't come up with anything in the articles or in previous threads.

Does anyone have any good articles or threads they could recommend about owning and/or managing a dropzone?

I could have sworn I came across some documents a year or two ago about the benefits and difficulties of owning a club vs. privately owned, etc.

Tips and experience would certainly be appreciated. Feel free to PM. And obviously I know that there's no better resource to ask stuff like this about than my DZO.

edit:

found this. will look into getting the USPA packet and/or calling them. they should be a good resource for information.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=951144;search_string=how%20to%20start%20dropzone;#951144

[PhreeZone 15]

USPA sells a series of articles that have all this information to help you get started if you are looking at starting a DZ. It might be worth the few bucks to buy the series so you can figure out the basics before putting a lot of time or money into it.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[SPAWNmaster 0]

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USPA sells a series of articles that have all this information to help you get started if you are looking at starting a DZ. It might be worth the few bucks to buy the series so you can figure out the basics before putting a lot of time or money into it.

Thanks man, I just noticed that and will look into it.

Appreciate the reply.

[Fast 0]

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Quote

USPA sells a series of articles that have all this information to help you get started if you are looking at starting a DZ. It might be worth the few bucks to buy the series so you can figure out the basics before putting a lot of time or money into it.

Thanks man, I just noticed that and will look into it.

Appreciate the reply.

How does that joke go? If you want to have a million dollars running a dropzone, start with 5 million? Haha... Anyways... i will offer just this one peice of advice, expect this to be about 100 times more involved and require 100 times more work than you are thinking now... Then it will probably be more.

That's all I have to add.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[PhreeZone 15]

When the business loses money when you make a skydive instead of someone else its not as much fun as it sounds huh?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[stratostar 5]

It's not worth the paper it's written on and adds no real value to a person looking to start up a DZ, unless your a total retard who has never set foot on a DZ let alone used a parachute and even then it's not going to tell you shit other then a few war stories and crap anyone who jumps with half a brain would already know or know where to look to find out.

One would be better off making sure they fully understand the FAR's that apply as well one's rights to accessing the national airspace and how to go about doing so.

The best thing USPA sells for a start up DZO type person is a video called "skydiving & parachute operations" it was co produced by the FAA & Jeppesen, PIA & USPA. This video also has a hand book that the FAA printed to go along with it, you should still be able to get copies via the FAA. These two together are a MUST HAVE to anyone wanting to operate on non towered at a general aviation airport, you will need the video and hand book to show to the morons who control the airport, it covers in detail "AC 90-66A Recommended Standards Traffic Patterns for Aeronautical Operations at Airports without Operating Control Towers"

It is wise to have a copy of the current SIMS, and be very up to speed on FAR 105 & 91, AC 90-66A

If you planing to use a "Public Owned Airport" (federal funded) then be up to speed on FAA order 5190A and AC 5190/150-6, AC 5190/150-7.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[SPAWNmaster 0]

Thank you for your replies.

[stratostar 5]

Sure. If you are thinking about trying to open on a public owned airport you might find this thread useful.

Good luck.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[skybytch 259]

From what I've seen, people who start new dz's and make them work long term usually have the ability to do just about everything required to make a dz work before they open one. They also own their aircraft instead of leasing.

Being able to do everything means having enough instructional ratings to jump with any student that might come through the door, a riggers ticket so you can maintain the gear, the necessary pilot ratings so you can fly the plane and maybe even an A&P rating so you can maintain the plane too. Not to mention the ability to make manifest run effectively (it's not just putting names on a list), do the books, juggle cash flow, deal with "interesting" personalities, etc, etc...

Eventually you can "grow" a staff that can take some of the workload off of you, but you need to always be ready to pick up the slack - whatever it takes to keep the loads flying and the money coming in.

Don't count on folks from your former home dz to come help you out or make your dz their new home. A few might come work for you and some may come by to fun jump on occasion, but most won't be coming out every weekend. Plan to grow your own skydivers; you're opening a dz in an area that lacks one, your biggest market is the non-jumpers who live there, not the jumpers who live elsewhere.

Good luck!

[riggerrob 558]

"

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From what I've seen, people who start new dz's and make them work long term usually have the ability to do just about everything required to make a dz work before they open one. ..."

.............................................................................................

Tee!
Hee!
That reminds me of DZO Van Pray Senior.
One weekend his packing staff decided to strike for higher wages, so he packed all the student gear himself!

• Quote

[skydived19006 4]

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From what I've seen, people who start new dz's and make them work long term usually have the ability to do just about everything required to make a dz work before they open one. They also own their aircraft instead of leasing.

Being able to do everything means having enough instructional ratings to jump with any student that might come through the door, a riggers ticket so you can maintain the gear, the necessary pilot ratings so you can fly the plane and maybe even an A&P rating so you can maintain the plane too. Not to mention the ability to make manifest run effectively (it's not just putting names on a list), do the books, juggle cash flow, deal with "interesting" personalities, etc, etc...

Eventually you can "grow" a staff that can take some of the workload off of you, but you need to always be ready to pick up the slack - whatever it takes to keep the loads flying and the money coming in.

Don't count on folks from your former home dz to come help you out or make your dz their new home. A few might come work for you and some may come by to fun jump on occasion, but most won't be coming out every weekend. Plan to grow your own skydivers; you're opening a dz in an area that lacks one, your biggest market is the non-jumpers who live there, not the jumpers who live elsewhere.

Good luck!

"There's iron in your words."

If you're starting from zero in an area that's never had a DZ, or you're going to compete with an established DZ, then you will have do do it all! If you're in an area which has had a DZ close down and there's a vacuum, you'll most likely be able to use existing talent. It'll require a minimum of two years to really grow the staff to run a small one Cessna DZ if starting from zero, probably more like five years.

I had a tandem student ask me last weekend what the minimum staff is to run my DZ. That was a first from a tandem student, the answer is three. Got'a have a pilot, and need two multi discipline instructors. For the traffic we do on a typical summer weekend, we need two TIs, one or two IAD Instructors, a Coach or two help but can operate without them, and someone to cover packing the tandem rigs. Fun jumpers and instructional staff assist with the manifest, answering the phone, and getting tandem students going on video and paperwork as they walk in.

I like this story and have posted it before. I think it was the first year I owned the DZ, the other TI was looking for me, the airplane was about to land and we had two tandem students going up. He found me in the rest room, tandem rig on my back plunging a load of shit down the toilet. He later told me that this was the point he came to understand what being DZO actually meant.

On the other side of that coin, I had a fun jumper upset with me that his load had been bumped up while he was gone to get lunch, he'd missed it, and was again on a two hour wait. He shit on the floor in the rest room and left. I was up at the time, and one of the fun jumpers did the nasty and cleaned up the mess (thanks again Dan!). I have a great bunch of fun jumpers and part time staff!

I guess the point is that as DZO you need to be prepaired to deal with the shit, figuratively and literally!
Martin

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[SPAWNmaster 0]

Quote

Quote

From what I've seen, people who start new dz's and make them work long term usually have the ability to do just about everything required to make a dz work before they open one. They also own their aircraft instead of leasing.

Being able to do everything means having enough instructional ratings to jump with any student that might come through the door, a riggers ticket so you can maintain the gear, the necessary pilot ratings so you can fly the plane and maybe even an A&P rating so you can maintain the plane too. Not to mention the ability to make manifest run effectively (it's not just putting names on a list), do the books, juggle cash flow, deal with "interesting" personalities, etc, etc...

Eventually you can "grow" a staff that can take some of the workload off of you, but you need to always be ready to pick up the slack - whatever it takes to keep the loads flying and the money coming in.

Don't count on folks from your former home dz to come help you out or make your dz their new home. A few might come work for you and some may come by to fun jump on occasion, but most won't be coming out every weekend. Plan to grow your own skydivers; you're opening a dz in an area that lacks one, your biggest market is the non-jumpers who live there, not the jumpers who live elsewhere.

Good luck!

"There's iron in your words."

If you're starting from zero in an area that's never had a DZ, or you're going to compete with an established DZ, then you will have do do it all! If you're in an area which has had a DZ close down and there's a vacuum, you'll most likely be able to use existing talent. It'll require a minimum of two years to really grow the staff to run a small one Cessna DZ if starting from zero, probably more like five years.

I had a tandem student ask me last weekend what the minimum staff is to run my DZ. That was a first from a tandem student, the answer is three. Got'a have a pilot, and need two multi discipline instructors. For the traffic we do on a typical summer weekend, we need two TIs, one or two IAD Instructors, a Coach or two help but can operate without them, and someone to cover packing the tandem rigs. Fun jumpers and instructional staff assist with the manifest, answering the phone, and getting tandem students going on video and paperwork as they walk in.

I like this story and have posted it before. I think it was the first year I owned the DZ, the other TI was looking for me, the airplane was about to land and we had two tandem students going up. He found me in the rest room, tandem rig on my back plunging a load of shit down the toilet. He later told me that this was the point he came to understand what being DZO actually meant.

On the other side of that coin, I had a fun jumper upset with me that his load had been bumped up while he was gone to get lunch, he'd missed it, and was again on a two hour wait. He shit on the floor in the rest room and left. I was up at the time, and one of the fun jumpers did the nasty and cleaned up the mess (thanks again Dan!). I have a great bunch of fun jumpers and part time staff!

I guess the point is that as DZO you need to be prepaired to deal with the shit, figuratively and literally!
Martin

Haha, great anecdote. Thanks.


This is all hypothetical right now is a thought that's rolling around in my head. There are talks of a local DZO retiring soon and it ocurred to me that this might be something I could be happy doing with my life.

For now I'm doing the corporate thing for work and just enjoying my hobbies...but Id like to settle down somewhere eventually where the sport is accessible to me as something I can devote myself to and where my passions and job could be one.

Just an idea...for now I'm doing the research and obviously working towards all the ratings.

Edit to add:

Thank you for all the nuggets and advice.

[riggerrob 558]

"... On the other side of that coin, I had a fun jumper upset with me that his load had been bumped up while he was gone to get lunch, he'd missed it, and was again on a two hour wait. ..."

.....................................................................................................

No sympathy for that Neanderthal!

[captain1976 0]

and was again on a two hour wait. ..."

.....................................................................................................

No sympathy for that Neanderthal!

[stratostar 5]

A one 182 dz with students and jumpers to handle, ya snooze you loose!

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[DeNReN 0]

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and was again on a two hour wait. ..."

.....................................................................................................

No sympathy for that Neanderthal!

2 HOURS? Wow. What is the reason for this long a wait anyway

[captain1976 0]

Yeah, guess I have. Just spoiled lately jumping at big DZ's.

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[JSBIRD 1]

As someonme who has held this postion on a busy DZ...

It will be the best of times...
and it will be the worst of times.

359

"Now I've settled down,
in a quiet little town,
and forgot about everything"

[airtwardo 6]

Some years back, Roger Nelson found himself in a position of having a lotta 'spare' time on his hands.

Redirecting his entrepreneurial skills more exclusively toward his skydiving interests, Roger authored several papers regarding areas of the sport that were in need of improvement in order to keep pace with where he believed the whole thing was headed.

One such endeavor was an 'A to Z' soup & nuts business plan on how to start and grow a successful commercial drop-zone...

I've never seen one, but have heard about some of the things contained within. I understand it's a fantastic road-map for someone with the right combination of motivation and resources.

I guess it pretty much lays out the how to from ideal locations, property procurement, facilities design, creative aircraft financing...everything one needs to know.

From what I understand it was conceived long before the current SDC, and that drop-zone is built on the business plan blueprint.

Those who've been to Spaceland as well as skydive Chicago can easily recognise the similarities.

Don't know if it's still available of how useful it might be considering the current business environment, but interesting someone would actually address the business of commercial skydiving operations...AS a business!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[skydived19006 4]

Quote

and was again on a two hour wait. ..."

.....................................................................................................

No sympathy for that Neanderthal!

2 HOURS? Wow. What is the reason for this long a wait anyway

[SPAWNmaster 0]

Quote

Some years back, Roger Nelson found himself in a position of having a lotta 'spare' time on his hands.

Redirecting his entrepreneurial skills more exclusively toward his skydiving interests, Roger authored several papers regarding areas of the sport that were in need of improvement in order to keep pace with where he believed the whole thing was headed.

One such endeavor was an 'A to Z' soup & nuts business plan on how to start and grow a successful commercial drop-zone...

I've never seen one, but have heard about some of the things contained within. I understand it's a fantastic road-map for someone with the right combination of motivation and resources.

I guess it pretty much lays out the how to from ideal locations, property procurement, facilities design, creative aircraft financing...everything one needs to know.

From what I understand it was conceived long before the current SDC, and that drop-zone is built on the business plan blueprint.

Those who've been to Spaceland as well as skydive Chicago can easily recognise the similarities.

Don't know if it's still available of how useful it might be considering the current business environment, but interesting someone would actually address the business of commercial skydiving operations...AS a business!

Thank you! Very interested...especially in the "creative financing" department lol.

[dninness 4]

Quote

Tee!
Hee!
That reminds me of DZO Van Pray Senior.
One weekend his packing staff decided to strike for higher wages, so he packed all the student gear himself!

According to Jr, they all came back with their tails between their legs and went back to work ;)

NIN
D-19617, AFF-I '19

[riggerrob 558]

" ... Also, the amount of fun jumper traffic is an eb and flow kind of thing. Right now it seems we have fewer fun jumpers, I blame it on all the carbon in the atmosphere. I'm doing my part though, trying to recycle all the beer and pop cans around the place. It may not help, but it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

[captain1976 0]

Quote

Quote

and was again on a two hour wait. ..."

.....................................................................................................

No sympathy for that Neanderthal!

2 HOURS? Wow. What is the reason for this long a wait anyway

Exactly what others mentioned. The DZ was really only that backed up through the peak season, and only on Saturdays from 10:00 am till 3:00 pm, and only when it was a really pretty day. So, if I had a second airplane, it would sit 50% of the time on the days when the DZ was really busy, and 90+% of the time over all.

I compromised, and spent a bunch of money on the one airplane I have, speeding it up. We went from flying 16 to 18 loads a day, to doing up to 24. Those additional loads are for the most part going to the fun jumpers and progressing students, since our tandem business is limited by the number of instructors (two) on staff. So, still one airplane, one pilot, one to maintain, but considerable more lift capacity.

Also, the amount of fun jumper traffic is an eb and flow kind of thing. Right now it seems we have fewer fun jumpers, I blame it on all the carbon in the atmosphere. I'm doing my part though, trying to recycle all the beer and pop cans around the place. It may not help, but it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

[skydived19006 4]

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You can't please everyone as much as you try...

Believe me, I don't try. Manifesting tandems ahead, and if needed "bumping fun jumpers up", as opposed to pushing loads down is one thing we do. For the most part, we do a great job with the customers paying $200 a jump, and the "twenty three dollar guys", are on they're own.

A small drop zone can be profitable, believe me if my DZ were breaking even I'd have sold out years ago!

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ