What Can We Do About Skyride II

[Amazon 7]

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Step away from the keyboard and have another cup of Kool-aid kid while I dig out bullshit boots.

I think that needs to be a full body condom..... but I guess some people like to do the full body immersion when they find a cesspool.

When I was a little girl my family told me something that has stood me in good stead for the last 50 years....

You are known by the company you keep.

When I travel.. I make sure I know who is at the DZ I will be visiting..and I check out their track record and if I find out they take Skyride certificates.... I will not jump there.. PERIOD.

[futuredivot 0]

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I want facts on the table, not wildly bias hearsay,

OK-Fact
The money funnels up so by supporting a DZ operated by the SR owner/owners you ARE supporting SR.
Fact-The entities that evolved in to SR practiced shady, sleazy business ethics before the SR scam started.
Fact-Very few people have issues with ASC funjumpers or staff as individuals. The few I've met have been pretty cool
Fact-You can tell yourself whatever makes you feel better but the rest of us ain't buying the snake oil

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[lauraliscious 0]

I was out at our new DZ today, Skydive East Tennessee helping them get set up for our opening day tomorrow. A potential student called up asking about AFF lessons. He asked if Skydive East Tennessee was the same as Skydive Knoxville. With a local area code, and directions to "Skydive Knoxville" on the site, it looks like it is a very strong possibility that they are the same thing. Only problem is, the directions on this website take you to ASC in Cedartown, GA!!! It just says to go south on I-75 until exit 288, not mentioning that exit 288 is in Georgia, not Tennessee, and not mentioning that the directions take you to a location that is 200 miles AWAY from Knoxville. This is deceitful and wrong, and I don't see how you can separate ASC from Skyride when the fake Skyride websites give explicit directions to ASC.

And it's not like you don't have options of where to jump, the Farm is 5 minutes away. I'm not saying all the people that work or jump at ASC are bad people. But this hurts our sport, and until Skyride stops re-directing customers under false pretenses to ASC, I won't be supporting ASC with my jumping dollars.

Oh yeah, and things like "For more information on becoming certified in Tennessee, call 865-246-0872 and a Skydiving Tennessee specialist will be glad to assist you." (which is a direct quote from the Skyride website which directs people to ASC) REALLY pisses me off!!!!!!!!

Enemiga Rodriguez, PMS #369, OrFun #25, Team Dirty Sanchez #116, Pelt Head #29, Muff #4091

[billeisele 122]

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...I have said i understand where they come from, how they do it, and why they do it, but i have never said i support em.
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- simply enough - you support them financially by participating at ASC, your money goes to corporate which is then used for whatever purpose they choose which includes Skyride advertising and Skyride lawyers
- apparently that is an ethical issue that doesn't bother you
- it does bothers me so I don't jump there
- I don't care if you jump there but don't try and convince others to jump there using the arguement that it is not Skyride related
- simple question - if another DZ opened up across the runway, everything being identical, and you had a chance to "rethink" your decision - which one would you patronize?

its all about personal choices and your own ethical/moral compass

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[billvon 2,396]

>Only problem is, the directions on this website take you to ASC
>in Cedartown, GA!

So how about it, BDashe? Will your ethical DZ stand up against such tactics? Or will they just take the money?

[BDashe 0]

I told this story before- but ill write and abridged version bill-

I fell for the same shit as a 2 jump wonder, one of which being a tandem. drove my ass in the middle of the night to the DZ that was supposed to be skydive nashville. took me over 3 hours in snow and ice in a mustang GT with a 3.73 rear end (non car people- that is NOT snow/ice friendly). i was a little mad when i showed up and realized this place was far away, but at the same time i was thinking, well, this is skydiving, not exactly like mcdonalds or starbucks. turned out to be the best drive i ever made.

There are whack advertisements for all the california dropzones- difference is- cali is a HUGE state and you dont cross state lines to get to the DZs.

The only complaint i ever have noticed @ ASC was the distance to drive based on advertisements. I'm on the record prior to now saying the exact same thing. Is it shady? yeah a little bit, is it unique in the industry? not in the least. would i do it the same way? probably not, but, the way i see it is that more people have gone skydiving and gotten into the sport because of it- me included. skyride is another story though, and that is probably where your energies are best focused.

I do not think the regulars on DZ.com are an accurate pool of people in this sport. Sad thing is, new people and whuffos dont know that. Overall I've noticed (and trust me, i ain't the only one) dorkzone.com attracts a certain type of jumper. That type of jumper tends to maintain heavy bias towards the accepting group's thought process without ever really thinking or caring to think for his/herself which is not so hot for ASC's public image. Yeah, this is my opinion on the site's demographics, but with that in mind I'll keep an eye out for shit that is important to me to shed different light from a different angle than is usually found here.

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983

[billvon 2,396]

>I fell for the same shit as a 2 jump wonder . . .

And now you pay to support that shit?

> That type of jumper tends to maintain heavy bias towards the accepting
> group's thought process without ever really thinking or caring to think for
> his/herself which is not so hot for ASC's public image.

Ironically, you seem to be doing exactly the same thing - except your heavy bias is to blindly support ASC no matter what the owners do, and to pretend that supporting those owners is an accident that you have no control over.

And again, that's your right. But it's a bit disingenuous to claim that you have no idea why anyone could possibly see anything wrong with ASC when you yourself admit to the owner's misdeeds.

[mnealtx 0]

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its all about personal choices and your own ethical/moral compass

Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[BDashe 0]

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>I fell for the same shit as a 2 jump wonder . . .

And now you pay to support that shit?

yyyyyyyyyup. apparently you forgot to read the part where i said it was the best drive of my life

> That type of jumper tends to maintain heavy bias towards the accepting
> group's thought process without ever really thinking or caring to think for
> his/herself which is not so hot for ASC's public image.

Ironically, you seem to be doing exactly the same thing - except your heavy bias is to blindly support ASC no matter what the owners do, and to pretend that supporting those owners is an accident that you have no control over.

disagree. youre putting words in my mouth. re-read what i've written... several times and maybe you'll be able to understand my POV- whether or not you agree with it. I get you guys, but you blind yourselves to the point you can't understand the ASC thing because all you see is red when a hint of skyride is in the air. You're living in a black and white world when there are actually many, many colors.

And again, that's your right. But it's a bit disingenuous to claim that you have no idea why anyone could possibly see anything wrong with ASC when you yourself admit to the owner's misdeeds.

Bill, seriously? How many times have I said i completely understand how and why you make the connections? HOW MANY TIMES in the last 2 pages? I understand completely, and im not trying to convince you otherwise (ive said that quite a bit too), I'm just trying to level the playing field by including the other side's P.O.V. w/r/t ASC.

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983

[popsjumper 2]

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That isn't what I am saying at all. I dont have a prob with B & C @ all, many of you do. Their business choices with skyride, however, are completely independent of the staff that works at ASC the dropzone which is operated in an ethical manner, and filled with good, moral people and fun jumpers... like me!!!

*cough*....*cough*...BS.
Happened just today:

Youngster comes in for AFF FJC.
Class begins and part-way through it's discovered that he meant to be going to ASC.

He had called and set up his training directly with ASC...not SR.

So, we sent him back over to ASC because they took his CC number on the phone and had already charged him for the course AND the first jump.

So the guy likes it here and calls ASC to get his money back so he can do his training here. Would you have guessed it? ASC refused a refund...never mind that they made no mention of any no-refund policy on the phone, nor anything about a cancellation fees or anything like that.

Does any of that sound familiar?

How about this one:
A few months ago a large group of people came to do tandems. Half the group made it here, the other half got lost and wound up a ASC. ASC told them they were in the right place and their friends were late. The group went ahead and gave their CC numbers and were charged for the jump.

Meanwhile, the group that was here got worried about the other group and called them. The ASC group said, "We ARE at the DZ, where are you?"

After the lie was exposed and cleared up the ASC group tried to get their money back...you can guess how that went...one of the "ASC reps" got really nasty with them.

In the end, they did get their money back because somebody got even more nasty about it than ASC was.

Sound familiar?

Oh...and again, just recenlty:
Husband/wife buy tandem at ASC. Price agreed, CC charged.

Getting geared up they were told, "For an additional $10 we'll take you all the way up to 13,500 feet!"

Husband says, "Wait a minute. that's what we bought in the first place...why the extra $10 now?

ASC rep says, "Oh, no. Your price was for 10,000 feet.

Husband says, "They didn't tell us that when we signed up."

Sound familiar?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[billvon 2,396]

>but you blind yourselves to the point you can't understand the ASC thing
>because all you see is red when a hint of skyride is in the air.

?? I've jumped at DZ's that take Skyride. I'll do so again. I don't like them, but that's not the only factor I use in deciding where to jump.

Now, if Otay were purchased by GQ, I'd think twice about jumping there. Sounds like you would not. That's fine; we just differ in the degree to which we are willing to put up with that sort of slime.

>You're living in a black and white world when there are actually many, many colors.

It seems like you're the one defending your DZ at all costs against people who are not attacking the DZ, but rather expressing their dislike of the owner. You lump everyone who has a problem with skyride into "you guys" who "see red when a hint of skyride is in the air." Most skydivers I know have a problem with Skyride but almost none of them fit your definition.

>I understand completely . . .

Cool, that's all anyone can ask.

[Cutaway68 4]

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There are whack advertisements for all the California dropzones- difference is- Cali is a HUGE state and you don't cross state lines to get to the DZs.

I have been lurking this thread for quite awhile off and on. Perhaps I have missed something along the way, but to what are you referring here? Seems to me that there have been numerous posts citing or linking to facts about miss-dealings with SR.

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I want facts on the table, not wildly bias hearsay, maliciously aimed at non-guilty and frankly, irrelevant parties to the topic.

Where are the facts to support your statement?

Don't Pull Low... Unless You ARE!!!
The pessimist says, "It can't get any worse than this." The optimist says, "Sure, it can."
Be fun, have safe.

[BDashe 0]

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There are whack advertisements for all the California dropzones- difference is- Cali is a HUGE state and you don't cross state lines to get to the DZs.

I have been lurking this thread for quite awhile off and on. Perhaps I have missed something along the way, but to what are you referring here? Seems to me that there have been numerous posts citing or linking to facts about miss-dealings with SR.

Yup, but not the DZ.

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I want facts on the table, not wildly bias hearsay, maliciously aimed at non-guilty and frankly, irrelevant parties to the topic.

Where are the facts to support your statement?

That's my point. There are just a bunch of made up stories like pops' current list of fairytales to support his argument. I can make up events to support my position as well- it's the intertron, everything you read is real right? There are 1000's of happy customers that can attest all is good in the hood in cedartown. I can't stand the petty personal squabbles that eventually take aim at more public and grander forums.

I'm hoppin' on a flight in 6 hours, see you crazy southerners on the flip side! Please clear the clouds and rain for me, as unlike some of you, I have some skydiving to do...

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983

[Cutaway68 4]

Again, I ask you to back up your claims with facts.

If there are other DZ's/companies out there (anywhere) that are guilty of doing this type of business then I would like to know so that I won't support them either.

Don't Pull Low... Unless You ARE!!!
The pessimist says, "It can't get any worse than this." The optimist says, "Sure, it can."
Be fun, have safe.

[billeisele 122]

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...I have said i understand where they come from, how they do it, and why they do it, but i have never said i support em.
--------------------

- simply enough - you support them financially by participating at ASC, your money goes to corporate which is then used for whatever purpose they choose which includes Skyride advertising and Skyride lawyers
- apparently that is an ethical issue that doesn't bother you
- it does bothers me so I don't jump there
- I don't care if you jump there but don't try and convince others to jump there using the arguement that it is not Skyride related
- simple question - if another DZ opened up across the runway, everything being identical, and you had a chance to "rethink" your decision - which one would you patronize?

its all about personal choices and your own ethical/moral compass

apparently no interest in replying to this simple question about ethics and morals

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[chutingstar 1]

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There are just a bunch of made up stories like pops' current list of fairytales to support his argument.

Those stories aren't made up.

Mike

ChutingStar.com

[JohnDeere 0]

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There are just a bunch of made up stories like pops' current list of fairytales to support his argument.

Those stories aren't made up.

Mike

Now come on dont mess him time up in lala land.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[marks 0]

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There are just a bunch of made up stories like pops' current list of fairytales to support his argument.

I have personally witnessed some of those stories when I was at the farm.

I have also personally witnessed the other stories when I was at ASC.

everything POPS posted, I have seen happen, more than once.

[LloydDobbler 2]

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That's my point. There are just a bunch of made up stories like pops' current list of fairytales to support his argument.

Dude - now I'm getting tired of this. I throw you a bone to try and see your side of it, and then you go and stick your head up your ass again. It seriously does seem that you're simply out to defend ASC, no matter what - and avoid anything that doesn't support your way of thinking.

Instead of addressing Andy's firsthand accounts - the likes of which have been backed up by multiple sources, both skydivers and non-skydivers - you avoid the topic (or even better - you attempt to discredit the source). Is it that uncomfortable for you to think that ASC might have some skeletons in its closet? Odd that you were just talking about how things aren't black-and-white, yet you seem to have a pathological need to see the staff at ASC as wearing a white hat.

Sure, there is something to be said about 'consider the source'...and the Farm is a competitor of ASC's...but given the previous behavior of the people who own ASC, I certainly wouldn't be surprised if that sort of thing went on.

There is such a thing as 'guilt by association', and in this case, knowing what I know firsthand about Skyride, I'm inclined to believe every word that Andy said. And by your choosing not to address the issues, but rather trying to discredit the person discussing them, that makes you even less credible.

This whole thing reminds me of an incident that happened while I was in college - a brother of the fraternity next door got drunk, angry, and backhanded his girlfriend at a sorority party. Within the next few minutes, all hell broke loose. The sorority sisters wanted this guy's blood. The entire party emptied out and marched down the street to the guy's frat house...where the whole fraternity (including some who were there when it happened) was defending the guy. "My bro wouldn't do that." "She's lying - it never happened." etc.

Nevermind that hundreds of people had seen it. "My bro told me he didn't do it, so I've got his back."

Unfortunately, the circling-the-wagons tactic worked - the lynch mob died down, and the guy was safe (well, for the time being. The girl was a little sister of another fraternity, who beat the snot out of him a few days later).

But the point is, when my fraternity brothers and I discussed the whole thing the next day, I realized that if I had hauled off and hit my girlfriend, my own brothers would be the first ones to beat the crap out of me. And I'd do the same to one of them. Because circling the wagons doesn't help the person being encircled...and more importantly, it shows no respect for them.

(Guess that's the reason I chose to be a member of my fraternity, instead of the follow-like-sheep fraternity next door.)

Dude - I'm all for you standing up for your DZ. And I'm sure there are a lot of great people there. But at least do them the honor of addressing things head-on. And if you're fine with those sorts of practices, hey - fair enough. But don't keep burying your head in the sand.

Signatures are the new black.

[popsjumper 2]

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Sure, there is something to be said about 'consider the source'...and the Farm is a competitor of ASC's...

Please do not think this is about Farm vs ASC.
It's strictly about SR-ASC business practices.
We really don't view ASC as a competitor. They are much more like feeders for us. ASC gets them initially on the quirky ads and we get them when they want to continue and look to find out about what's really going on in the skydiving world.

There are three other DZs in Georgia that we do, and have many times, recommended to those who live closer to them. I find it very hard to recommend SR-ASC to anyone.

The side issue of "what great guys we are at ASC" has already been debunked...notably by the comments of those making the claims in the first place.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Driver1 0]

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I think that situation sucks. I'm also not going to believe anything posted on a random website either. How many complaints do you think are actually valid versus complaints that are made up or over exagerated? Example: I listened to the manager of a DZ get berated by the father of a tandem student because his daughter was sitting on the ground waiting to jump while others were jumping and he wanted to know why his daughter paid money but was not jumping. He stated that he was making a formal complaint. The truth to that "complaint" is that there was a weather hold because of clouds and we had put up a few hop and pop loads to satisfy the fun jumpers that were chomping at the bit to jump. He saw this and figured he had gotten ripped off.

You cant always beleive what the internet says and that goes both ways too. If you dont trust some random Skyride site then why would you always beleive a site that opposes the Skyride site?

I think I may see why that dad was getting pissed. Maybe the weather was bad. These are a couple videos that show the Skydives that were done down at Clarksville. I'm pretty sure that we can't jump in rainy and/or cloudy conditions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhdZNR2xHtQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn40ialuINE

There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

[parabuteo 0]

not a skyride fan but i have to say that starting a war between jumpers isnt going to help anyone. Posting things like those youtube links are detrimental to the sport and quite frankly extremely hipocritical. I think you could find similar videos from DZ's all over the US. I found one when i searched "skydive the farm tandem". I also found them from other DZ's. I even found one with the golden knights busting clouds. If a jumper miscalculates a hole and hits the edge of a cloud you shouldnt get on here and use it as mud. How does hurting that pilot effect skyride?? I feel people that do this kind of thing should be black balled from the sport. would you want a rat like that jumping at your DZ...would you???

I'm hesitant to post this link, but given the date and the fact that i actually feel a little sorry for the fellow jumpers being attacked in the previous post, I feel like defending them a little.

Skyride can go suck it........but starting personal wars between jumpers is just bad karma. Sorry for posting this link but i feel its necessary to show as an example of how ugly this could get for the sport. I think there is little doubt that this is intentional disregard for cloud clearance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDPYqSaqCLc

[parabuteo 0]

sorry made it click



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDPYqSaqCLc


I think we should leave this to conversations about skyride.... not DZ antics or policies. Skydivers are the same at every DZ and every DZ has some skeletons and blemishes. I've seen DZ's charge for extra altitude at some other places as well. Ive even seen DZ's charge for people to watch skydivers land....

Skyride sucks......why dont we stick to that issue instead of allowing skyride to drive this sport to even a newer low. We are better than skyride, lets prove it. I think our hatred for skyride has blinded our love for this sport.

[billvon 2,396]

>If a jumper miscalculates a hole and hits the edge of a cloud you shouldnt get
>on here and use it as mud.

Agreed. But the second video showed a tandem exiting in a raincloud. Hard to defend that.

[parabuteo 0]

actually it looks like it is underneath a rain cloud. the lens is fogging some but you can still see that plane in the camera frame for hundreds of feet. If it was in the cloud you wouldnt be able to see the plane that long after the jumpers left it.

but whatever.....just saying