What Can We Do About Skyride II

[RIGGER160 0]

Brett nobody has ever said it any better! I look forward to hanging out with such a rational mind again this weekend. Lets do some drinking!

[Heatmiser 0]

I know all about separating companies on paper. If the MONEY is all flowing to the same place, then it is reasonable to boycott OTHER companies owned by the same entity, if you don't agree with the business practices of the parent entity. No, it doesn't mean that ASC is being run using defraudulent practices, but as a matter of course, it is reasonable that people would not want to fund those that they feel have acted fraudulently in another venture. I see what you are defending, that ASC acts as a respectable stand up company. On the other hand, you have to understand that most people will follow the money, and not make a distinction, if the profit is flowing to the same entity.

What you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo

Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama

[mklady 0]

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I doubt that either one of you know the legacy of 1800skyride ownership.

Let's hear it from you two.
Dates, owners etc.

.

I don't have a dog in this fight and I am certainly not going to set here and waste my time arguing about who's right, but It sounds like you do know about the legacy of the Skyride ownership, so with all due respect, I would like to ask you to educate us. I would like to know for myself if there is more to this whole thing other than the fraudulent websites and scammed customers.
Thanks, Lori...

[LloydDobbler 2]

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Managed by different people, different staff, different stucture, different organization. You fail, sir. Profit goes to the same place.

Hey, Brett -

We've talked before, and I still find you one of the most straightforward people from ASC I've spoken with online. As I said in the past, I appreciate your actually engaging in discussion, instead of the sophomoric approach of the majority of the ASC peeps we see on here.

I think that with the exception of a few vehement people, most of the posters on this board have nothing against the people at ASC. Heck, I have more than a few friends who've called ASC their home at one time or another. I'm sure the people there are great, and I wish them no ill will. (I'm sure the DZ is a great place, too - because a DZ is more about the people than it is the facilities or jump prices).

However, as you mentioned above, the ASC & Skyride profits go to the same place. And I refuse to give the people who put together Skyride any of my money. [Gross exaggeration here, to make a point] If Adolf Hitler started a non-profit organization to educate underprivileged children, I wouldn't donate money to them. I'd send my money to another similar organization with less-shady ties.[/grossly exaggerated analogy]

So should one of my friends ever invite me to jump at ASC, I won't join them...unless the ownership has changed to someone unaffiliated with Skyride.

It seems like a contradiction - I don't wish any of the staff/instructors/jumpers at ASC any ill will. But I hope like hell their dropzone fails miserably. I can see as how that message could easily get confused or internalized...but it's not intended as a personal attack.

I guess what it comes down to is, we're arguing the same thing. You're saying, 'The people at the dropzone aren't the people you should be pissed with'. And (with some exceptions) we're saying, 'The people at the dropzone aren't the people we're pissed with.' The difference is, you don't seem to have an issue with giving the people who own Skyride your money...whereas we do.

The problem is that most people from ASC have 'home DZ pride', and would take offense when I tell someone that I would never jump there because of what Skyride has done to skydiving. So while I can separate the two entities, it seems like the people who jump at ASC don't know how to not take it personally.

It puts me in an odd place when talking to an ASC jumper - I won't support your dropzone, and will discourage others from jumping there. But I'd love to jump with any of you at another non-Skyride-owned DZ, any day of the year.

It's nothing personal - it's just business. I'm not trashing ASC - I'm trashing the people who own it, and trying to make sure people understand that whether they patronize ASC or Skyride, their money's going into the same pocket.

Signatures are the new black.

[popsjumper 2]

How's Lancefrazier doing? Will he continue to post here now that he no longer has a dog in this hunt?

I'll miss that snorting laugh he had.....well, nah.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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...whether they patronize ASC or Skyride, their money's going into the same pocket.

"I don't care about all that stuff. I can make good money here!"

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[BDashe 0]

what you say makes perfect sense, as does heatmiser. And that philosophy of voting with your dollars is totally cool! I have no problem with that whatsoever.

A few things come up here every so often that are not simply voting with dollars. When, people start trashing the DZ/jumpers/staff and lumping them all into a pile of shit, I have a problem.

When it comes to this thread, everyone has a hair trigger, admittedly myself included. I think certain distinctions need to be made in order for the discussion to be fair.

With that in mind, i'll sit back and point out when something is not at all skyride related, even when some people try their damndest to make the connection just so they push their agenda.

Voting with your dollars and making slanderous and outrageous remarks about a DZ, however, are two separate concepts. I understand if you feel that shutting the DZ down (or trying to) somehow is winning a battle in the war then fine, just beware of other wars you could start from it that may not be worth it. That isn't a threat at all, just stating a hypothetical. And, if the goal is to ruin the DZs, go ahead and try, just do it legally and fair as you all are asking skyride to conduct business. If you (collective you) don't, or false things are being said or implied in order to reach the ends (shutting the DZs down), that is where I will try to correct.

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983

[Nutz 0]

At was at the auto parts store one day and I noticed a sign on the wall, "Arguing with a parts man is like wrestling with a pig. After a while you realize the pig enjoys it." I think it applys to ASC pukes, even if they are being civil. They just don't get it, or maybe they do.
Just my $0.02, again.

"Don't! Get! Eliminated!"

[MakeItHappen 15]

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I don't have a dog in this fight and I am certainly not going to set here and waste my time arguing about who's right, but It sounds like you do know about the legacy of the Skyride ownership, so with all due respect, I would like to ask you to educate us. I would like to know for myself if there is more to this whole thing other than the fraudulent websites and scammed customers.
Thanks, Lori...

I did post it before.
Here it is again.

1-800-SkyRide has never been a company in and of itself.
1-800-SkyRide has always been a DBA of another company.

Companies that have used the dba include (and may not be limited to)

CASC, Inc
USSO, LLC
IGOVincent, Inc

Other skydiving companies that are owned by CQ and/or BB include
Atlanta SC, Inc
Tandora Inc
CAB, Inc

CASC, Inc was the first company to use the dba 1800skyride. It was created 8/00 and dissolved 5/08.
It owned the DZ at Pell City, AL and became a USPA GM in 2002. The Pell City DZ moved to Prattville, AL shortly before closing up altogether. Many of the SR domain names were originally registered to CASC or CQ.

USSO, LLC used the dba until spring of 2007. It was created 11/03 and dissolved 5/08.
USSO started using the dba sometime before 10/05.

IGOVincent, Inc started using the dba in the spring of 07 and continues to use it today. CQ owns IGOVincent.

Atlanta SC was created 9/97 and was originally owned by BB and CQ. Today, CQ is the sole owner. It owns the DZ in Cedartown, GA.

Tandora was created 12/03 and owns the DZ in Perkasie PA. They became a GM in 2004. CQ owns Tandora.

CAB was a company that rented AC to DZs formed by Cary, Andre, Ben (CAB - get it?).

The settlement agreement between SR and USPA was between
Atlanta, SC, Inc ("ASC")
CASC, Inc. ("CASC")
Tandora, Inc. ("Tandora")
USSO, LLC, d/b/a 1-800-SkyRide, Inc. ("USSO")
Cary V. Quattrocchi
Benny W. Butler
and
USPA.

The check was sent to IGOVincent, Inc. Go figure that one out???
That is more about the slipshod work by the attorney representing USPA and the incompetent Executive Committee.

About a year ago Skydive Arizona had to go to great lengths to get IGOVincent, Inc added as one of the defendants.

FMI see http://funjumper.com/skyride/
There are also a whole host of names that have appeared in BBB complaints.

Thanks for asking. It is a convoluted story.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[BDashe 0]

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I think it applys to ASC pukes, even if they are being civil. They just don't get it, or maybe they do.
Just my $0.02, again.

Highlighted in bold is exactly the B.S. I'm talking about. Additionally, we can debate just the same (and we do) that in fact- YOU are the one(s) that don't get it.

Makeithappen- thanks for fleshing it out again

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983

[funjumper101 15]

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I think it applys to ASC pukes, even if they are being civil. They just don't get it, or maybe they do.
Just my $0.02, again.

Highlighted in bold is exactly the B.S. I'm talking about. Additionally, we can debate just the same (and we do) that in fact- YOU are the one(s) that don't get it.

Makeithappen- thanks for fleshing it out again

You are getting a real life lesson in the reality that who you associate with, matters. You and the other folks at ASC choose to stay with a part of an organization that has not been a positive influence on skydiving. The community consensus is that SR sucks, and should be stopped.
Once you have learned the truth about those that you are associating with, it then becomes decision time.
Do you continue to associate with an organization that has the scorn of the greater community, or not? If you choose to stay associated, and defend same, you will get dissed and scorned by the greater community. How could you rationally expect anything else?

ASC/Skyride = one and the same

even if you manage to rationalize otherwise.

Money to one is money to both.
You are free to make your own decisions. You are also responsible for the consequences of those decisions. You don't get one without the other. If you can't handle the consequences, revise the decision. That is how the real world works.

Defending ASC/SR, and jumping at or working for ASC, means you directly support immoral, unethical, and illegal business practices in the skydiving industry. Why should you, or any of the other ASC folks get a pass for that?

[BDashe 0]

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I think it applys to ASC pukes, even if they are being civil. They just don't get it, or maybe they do.
Just my $0.02, again.

Highlighted in bold is exactly the B.S. I'm talking about. Additionally, we can debate just the same (and we do) that in fact- YOU are the one(s) that don't get it.

Makeithappen- thanks for fleshing it out again

You are getting a real life lesson in the reality that who you associate with, matters.

Really? I had no clue I was to take responsibility for my actions! Thanks for pointing that out!

ASC/Skyride = one and the same

Fail

Money to one is money to both.

eh, sorta.


You are free to make your own decisions.

Thank you for permission!

You are also responsible for the consequences of those decisions. You don't get one without the other. If you can't handle the consequences, revise the decision. That is how the real world works.

way to tie it back to the top of your post! And thanks again for the life lesson!


Defending ASC/SR, and jumping at or working for ASC, means you directly support immoral, unethical, and illegal business practices in the skydiving industry. Why should you, or any of the other ASC folks get a pass for that?

defending ASC, not skyride. For some reason I need to keep clarifying. I don't care what skyride does. I don't care that by going to ASC means in some perverted way, helps skyride exist. By fun jumping at ASC, improving my skydiving, and visiting friends and good people I am directly supporting immoral, unethical, and illegal business? That type of over reaction and over exaggeration is exectly why I post here. If I was paying for skyride's lawyers or something maybe that would be direct support if any of that hocus pocus ever gets proven as fact. The REALITY, sir, is that I am doing no such thing by fun jumping at a successful, friendly, safe, and ETHICAL DZ. I get why you don't want to jump there, but it isn't enough of a reason for me to not jump there. My opinion is that you waste your time p*ssing people off about the DZ when your efforts could probably be more effective to your ends if focused elsewhere. But maybe that makes too much sense, I dunno.

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983

[futuredivot 0]

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If I was paying for skyride's lawyers or something maybe that would be direct support

You are. How do you think parent companies make money?

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[stratostar 5]

Step away from the keyboard and have another cup of Kool-aid kid while I dig out bullshit boots.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[pilotdave 0]

Quoted totally out of context:

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I don't care what skyride does.

And that's a difference between you and the people you're arguing with. That's why you're willing to jump at a DZ that is part of the same organization as skyride. Skydivers that feel that skyride is bad for skydiving don't appreciate those that support skyride's owners.

Dave

[billeisele 122]

...I have said i understand where they come from, how they do it, and why they do it, but i have never said i support em.
--------------------

- simply enough - you support them financially by participating at ASC, your money goes to corporate which is then used for whatever purpose they choose which includes Skyride advertising and Skyride lawyers
- apparently that is an ethical issue that doesn't bother you
- it does bothers me so I don't jump there
- I don't care if you jump there but don't try and convince others to jump there using the arguement that it is not Skyride related
- simple question - if another DZ opened up across the runway, everything being identical, and you had a chance to "rethink" your decision - which one would you patronize?

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[mnealtx 0]

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When, people start trashing the DZ/jumpers/staff and lumping them all into a pile of shit, I have a problem.

Which is normally directly after a dz/jumper/staff member comes on here lumping anyone that is anti-SL into a pile of shit - you can't have it both ways, dude...sorry.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[pirana 0]

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So when running SR they are unprincipled ripoff artists, but when running ASC they are responsible, ethical business owners?

Not buying that. It's like saying a person is kinda pregnant. Either a person has principles or they don't.

Managed by different people, different staff, different stucture, different organization.

If the owners are one and the same, and they engage in unethical activities in any of the ventures, then they are quite simply unethical people (the owners).

Are you saying they are good people because they only rip off people in one of their businesses instead of both (or all) of them?

A person either has integrity or they don't.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[BDashe 0]

That isn't what I am saying at all. I dont have a prob with B & C @ all, many of you do. Their business choices with skyride, however, are completely independent of the staff that works at ASC the dropzone which is operated in an ethical manner, and filled with good, moral people and fun jumpers... like me!!!

Now, if a DZ opened right there? Id jump where ever my buddies were jumping cuz i prefer social skydives. in all honesty, I'd probably alternate between the DZs to get the best of both worlds as I'm sure i could get along with both parties of people. As i said, I don't care what skyride does, all i give a sh*t about is ASC- and they aren't doing anything wrong despite being labled otherwise. I'm just clarifying when mislabeled.

If they took my jump tickets and then refused to let me jump, I'd go somewhere else. That doesn't happen, nor anything like it, so I will still jump there.

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983

[wmw999 2,116]

Quick question. Anyone here go to restaurants that are owned by Mob figures or other criminals? It's not uncommon; restaurants are great money-laundering tools.

If I lived in the Atlanta area, I most likely wouldn't jump at ASC; they are pretty closely tied to Skyride in a lot of ways (that whole "ASC is close to everywhere" thing). But there is a point at which the finger-pointing and name-calling says more about the caller than the callee.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Nutz 0]

Hold on, I gotta go pop some corn.

"Don't! Get! Eliminated!"

[airtwardo 6]

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ASC/Skyride = one and the same

Fail

Money to one is money to both.

eh, sorta.

Contradicting yourself makes the logic of your argument rather comical.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[BDashe 0]

catch yourself up on the last 10 pages of the thread, it's all fleshed out for you. As i said, keep picking apart my posts to benefit your agenda. Hopefully any neutral parties will read them in their entirety and make their own judgements.

Nutz- youre a few years late on your popcorn statement, but welcome. How is everything going back there near the millenium? FYI- avoid the twin towers, rumor is they're gonna get attacked.

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983

[airtwardo 6]

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catch yourself up on the last 10 pages of the thread, it's all fleshed out for you.

Catch yourself up on the last 10 YEARS of the SlyRide scam N00b, then make some intelligent comment regarding facts and agendas.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[BDashe 0]

True, I've only been around for 5 of em. The difference between me and the rest of you is i keep personal feelings to a minimum. Sure, I defend my friends and the DZ; but on fact based grounds and in an effort to keep the focus on the skyride issue which is what the thread is about- not bias against competing DZs, disagreement over boogie themes, or hatred towards individuals.

I may be newer to the issue than some, but I've got more experience than plenty of others as well as a different perspective than the angry mob of dorkzone.commers you associate with. Seems only fair and just to get a different perspective in the mix, EVEN IF IT ISN'T ONE YOU AGREE WITH.

Refresh me on the forum rules, but i don't think it states anywhere that I'm not allowed to dispute an argument or express my own opinion. Further, there are several different people on 'your side' that have noted they appreciate my angle, even if they disagree. I guess you are too seasoned on the matter to be included in that crowd, since you clearly are the God of the skyride debate.

Lastly, I'm not here to change your mind, or anyone I debate with. That is like talking religion. People unfamiliar with the issue should be able to see more than what is projected in the circle jerk mob mentality that are the .00001% of jumpers (or people that have made their 2 annual skydives to consider themselves jumpers) that post regularly here. I want facts on the table, not wildly bias hearsay, maliciously aimed at non-guilty and frankly, irrelevant parties to the topic.

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983