What Can We Do About Skyride II

[SimonBones 1]

Some say ASC is not necessarily Skyride and have some good points.

Some say ASC IS skyride and have some good points.

What if the Skyride folks decided to sell ASC because their Skyride business was much more profitable and they just didn't care about ASC anymore. Another person unrelated to Skyride buys ASC. Ownership on paper changes, all the staff, equipment, facilities, jumpers, all stay the same.

The day at ASC would go on as usual. Same planes with TIs doing tandems and some fun jumpers jumping with the same gang. You would walk in and notice nothing different.

At that point Skyride would be in absolutely no way related to ASC, but ASC would still be the same ASC.

So although I think some of the things that Skyride does are pretty rotten, I can't say that ASC is Skyride, and I would have no problem going there (and I have once). A DZ is more than just who owns it. It takes more to make a DZ be DZ than just a DZO.

108 way head down world record!!!
http://www.simonbones.com
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[wmw999 2,121]

Back in the 80's there were a lot of people protesting & boycotting businesses that operated in S. Africa (which still had apartheid at the time). Those businesses generally had other branches or divisions that did business in S. Africa, but they still got boycotted.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[mnealtx 0]

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Actually it is not at all like that since ASC is not skyride by brand, business, or service. That is the thought process that you all are pushing, knowing full well the distinction, but as long as you screw the 2 people you REALLY don't like, you're happy to spread as much slander as possible to reach those ends.

You're right - the better analogy would be, since Walmart ripped you off, you don't shop at Walmart OR Sam's Club, since they're both owned by the same folks and they both do discount sales.

Of course, the fact that you so willingly overlook that fact says volumes. Your Cerberus/Mervyn's/Albertson's analogy is flawed since neither Cerberus or Mervyn's do grocery business, while SR *does* do skydiving business.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[BDashe 0]

I never said it was spot on, just more accurate than Bill's, as yours is not spot on, but more accurate than bill's as well.

skyride is not in the skydiving business, they do referral sales (like a gateway to skydiving...with red tape), they are not competitors like sam's and walmart could be considered, which is what I was referring to in my analogy if you read it again.

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983

[billvon 2,400]

>Actually it is not at all like that since ASC is not skyride by brand,
>business, or service

?? Right. And Wal-Mart also offers services that differ by brand, business or service. Their retail stores are not the same as Wal-Mart Tire and Lube Express, or Wal-Mart Credit Services, or Wal-Mart Online.

But someone might choose to boycott all of them because they are all owned by the same people, and they figure if the same people are slimy enough to do that in one place they will do it in others.

[JohnDeere 0]

Paint it any color you want and you can even put a pretty little bow on it, but it still smells like shit! The problem is that both are owned by the same people. They knowingly screw people over by skyride and dont give a damn about it. Therefor they will not think twice about doing the same at there other company it the gain is big enought. Its not the companys that are worthless its the individuals! If ASC was sold i would have no problem going there. But i will not give money to someone that will screw people over so bad and doesnt even blink an eye.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[kelpdiver 2]

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skyride is not in the skydiving business,

oooh...verbal gymnastics!

Actually, I bet a lot of people wouldn't have such disdain for SR if their numerous websites (full of stolen images) didn't say they were in fact dropzones just down the street from every person in America. Fictional location websites is a pretty big component in the lawsuit with Eloy.

[billvon 2,400]

>skyride is not in the skydiving business . . .

Ah! Well, if they have indeed gotten out of the business of selling skydives, good for them. That will go a long way towards improving ASC's standing in the skydiving community.

[BDashe 0]

Bill, youre still scrounging. learn to admit your off once in a while, sheesh. you had a poor analogy, were called on it, two much better and more accurate ones from supporters on different sides of the issue were demonstrated, move on.

Everyone knows you don't like skyride, just as they know I post to save face for ASC when you all try to drag em through the mud. Don't worry- even though you missed the dart board this time, no one thinks any different of you!

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983

[billvon 2,400]

>Everyone knows you don't like skyride

And everyone knows you will defend ASC till the cows come home. That's fine; it's great that you're defending them, and I am sure you have fun at your favorite DZ. But to claim you just can't comprehend why some people think there's a connection between ASC and Skyride (just because they have the same owner) makes you look pretty silly.

[BDashe 0]

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>Everyone knows you don't like skyride

And everyone knows you will defend ASC till the cows come home. That's fine; it's great that you're defending them, and I am sure you have fun at your favorite DZ. But to claim you just can't comprehend why some people think there's a connection between ASC and Skyride (just because they have the same owner) makes you look pretty silly.

Bill-

I never defended skyride, in all my posts i have not once tried to justify what they do. I have said i understand where they come from, how they do it, and why they do it, but i have never said i support em. I have said I don't care, and still don't really.

I also have said, despite you thinking i cant comprehend it, that i understand where, how and why you guys insist on attacking ASC. I just, clearly and vehemently, disagree with it. I very easily lump you into the same tactical category as skyride for doing so- by you all doing shady, bordering illegal sh*t to push your agenda and achieve your ends.

I also have never said that 'there is no connection between ASC and skyride.' I have identified it numerous times. What you seem to miss, or try to make others believe, is that by ruining ASC and AST you have a victory against skyride. If you got your way, all you're doing is hurting the skydiving community. Sure, you take some money out of a couple guys pockets, but nothing happens to skyride, and you successfully p*ssed people off, as well as exacerbate an already touchy situation.

I post here, not to try and change all your minds, but in case someone new to the scanario, or the press, or whoever decides to spend the time reading through the threads for info; they will get another more accurate side to the story.

You can cut up, disect, and edit my posts all you want to fit your agenda, at the end of the day the truth of the situation doesn't change.

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983

[billvon 2,400]

> I very easily lump you into the same tactical category as skyride for doing
>so- by you all doing shady, bordering illegal sh*t to push your agenda and
>achieve your ends.

So you do precisely what you condemn others for doing. Apparently you therefore understand it!

>What you seem to miss, or try to make others believe, is that by
>ruining ASC and AST you have a victory against skyride.

?? I think people see exactly the opposite. By ruining Skyride, many people would see a victory for skydiving, which includes ASC. I'd commend GQ if he abandoned Skyride and concentrated his energies on the DZ you are defending so staunchly.

>they will get another more accurate side to the story.

The ASC people who have posted here (not you, but several others) have, unfortunately, done the opposite of what you intend - portrayed ASC as a bunch of squabbling children who will do everything and anything to smear other DZ's and make a buck. They then attempt to pass it off as "it's just a joke, man" or (even worse) as an attempt to support a charity. That creates animosity towards ASC, and reinforces the image of ASC being the "Skyride dropzone."

Now, there's nothing wrong with acting childish here; we have forums for that (provided you stay within the forum rules, of course.) But for many people, that childish behavior has become the "public face" of ASC.

And again, I am sure there are good people at ASC, a lot of good skydiving goes on there and you've had some great times there. Unfortunately, ASC's close association with Skyride and the online behavior of the people who jump there convey a different story.

[MakeItHappen 15]

I doubt that either one of you know the legacy of 1800skyride ownership.

Let's hear it from you two.
Dates, owners etc.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[BDashe 0]

We know youre one of the most intimately involved in the law suit, here's your big d*ck award. We know you want skyride and all affiliates to burn. I'm pointing out where bias and contempt take over.

Billv- you're right, my buddies don't do a great job putting a clean face on ASC- unfortunately you guys don't see things from their angle. They are the ones being attacked for ridiculous reasons, tied to something they're not even involved with. So, they'll counter with equally ridiculous antics- which crack me up personally and is one of the many reasons i spend so much money to get back there. I'm not saying that is the best way to handle the situation, or even a good way. It is certainly entertaining though.

I'll continue to do what I do when i feel like chiming in, they'll do what they do, and undoubtedly you and the rest of the angry mob will continue on that destructive path as well. I try and pick up the pieces you leave in your path that I don't think should have been broken in the first place. That's what the forums are here for anyway, right? foster differing opinions?

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983

[futuredivot 0]

Hey skippy, were you around pre-SR? These guys didn't get much notice except from us locals when they were only pissing in the metro-atlanta pool. Skyride was just a nationalization of the same slimey crap they were pulling back then.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[popsjumper 2]

With your head stuck in the sand for so long, one needs to periodically walk down the beach and give you a kick to see if you're still breathing.
*kick*
Brett, you OK, man? Still alive? Ok...just checking.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[BDashe 0]

I farted on you when you kicked me!

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983

[pirana 0]

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skyride's practices suck, ASC is only guilty by association.

Maybe I misunderstood, but aren't they owned by the same people?

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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>Actually it is not at all like that since ASC is not skyride by brand,
>business, or service

?? Right. And Wal-Mart also offers services that differ by brand, business or service. Their retail stores are not the same as Wal-Mart Tire and Lube Express, or Wal-Mart Credit Services, or Wal-Mart Online.

But someone might choose to boycott all of them because they are all owned by the same people, and they figure if the same people are slimy enough to do that in one place they will do it in others.

They are not competitors. If anything they are branches of a single organization; which is an even stronger relationship than say, . . . being partners.

They are separate outlets of a company that uses a couple different formats to bring slightly different goods to the consumer.

When Yumm publishes their quarterly statements, whether you spent your money at Pizza Rut or Taco Hell doesn't matter to the stockholders or the company's bottom line.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

So when running SR they are unprincipled ripoff artists, but when running ASC they are responsible, ethical business owners?

Not buying that. It's like saying a person is kinda pregnant. Either a person has principles or they don't.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[BDashe 0]

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So when running SR they are unprincipled ripoff artists, but when running ASC they are responsible, ethical business owners?

Not buying that. It's like saying a person is kinda pregnant. Either a person has principles or they don't.

Managed by different people, different staff, different stucture, different organization. You fail, sir. Profit goes to the same place. Anyone that has been to ASC in the last 4 years can attest it is business as usual for a DZ. Personal issues with owners and individual staffers doesn't mean the business is bad. That is personal, leave it as such. That's what I'm deciphering here.

edit- one can argue 'well since the profit goes to the same place, the business is just as corrupt!' The simple truth is, that isn't the case. Anyone who hasn't been there, go check it out. don't give em your business if you don't want to, but check it out and tell me what they are doing wrong. I'll bet you find nothing abnormal.

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983

[billvon 2,400]

>What if the Skyride folks decided to sell ASC because their Skyride business was
> much more profitable and they just didn't care about ASC anymore. Another
>person unrelated to Skyride buys ASC. Ownership on paper changes, all the staff,
>equipment, facilities, jumpers, all stay the same.

That would be great for ASC, I think.

>The day at ASC would go on as usual. Same planes with TIs doing tandems and
>some fun jumpers jumping with the same gang. You would walk in and notice
>nothing different.

Probably true! And they'd get a lot more support from the rest of the skydiving community.

That's true at almost every DZ in the world. The people on the DZ generally don't know the details of how the DZ is being supported, and often don't care. That, of course, doesn't make anything the DZ does OK.

[lippy 771]

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So when running SR they are unprincipled ripoff artists, but when running ASC they are responsible, ethical business owners?.

I'm curious as to how much the owners actually run the DZ. Do they manage it themselves or do they just happen to own it, but have a DZM run the show. If it is a DZM, how cloesely associated is he/she with Skyride?

I'm just curious. I don't have a dog in this fight, but this thread is interesting reading.


edit: I can't type very fast on the mini...Question was answered while I was trying to ask it

I got nuthin

[BDashe 0]

Quote

Quote

So when running SR they are unprincipled ripoff artists, but when running ASC they are responsible, ethical business owners?.

I'm curious as to how much the owners actually run the DZ. Do they manage it themselves or do they just happen to own it, but have a DZM run the show. If it is a DZM, how cloesely associated is he/she with Skyride?

I'm just curious. I don't have a dog in this fight, but this thread is interesting reading.


edit: I can't type very fast on the mini...Question was answered while I was trying to ask it

day to day ops are not run by the owners of ASC, despite what was implied in bold above. It is managed by a DZM that is a skydiver, has a PST card and such. Videographers fly video, TIs throw drogues, packers pack parachutes, AFFIs teach newbies, S&TA keeps bad things from happening... seems pretty fishy doesn't it! Almost as if they are posing as a legit DZ...

as far as i know they are all employed by ASC, not skyride. I just fun jump there when i can, never been employed.

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983

[futuredivot 0]

Corporate culture is a very real thing. A person's approach is likely affected by the behavior of who signs their check.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour