CYPRES saved my life!

[ghost47 18]

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for the sake of this post, I would say dude, man up! Your fear is in control of you and you are making excuses for it.

I'm not sure what that even means. Yes, I'm afraid of dying or being seriously injured. Yes, I take steps to minimize the risk of that happening. No, I don't feel that one jump (no matter the circumstances, unless they involve a crashing plane) is worth jumping without an AAD when I have an ability to get an AAD given a week or two (or three).

If that makes me less of a skydiver in your eyes, oh well.

[tetra316 0]

I do understand where you are coming from in your choices. I'm not thoroughly convinced though that choosing to not jump without an AAD regardless of the situation is not being device dependent.

I can see where one might not do certain types of dives, bigways or known zoo loads, if one doesn't have an AAD but to say you will not jump no matter what without an AAD is different. To me that is device dependency. If you are not device dependent why not do some two or four ways or a solo? You can still manage your risk without an AAD.

[in2jumping 0]

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Thats not an option I will jump, but will take almost every precaution I can to make sure I make the safest jump I can.

Sabre2 150 ft² (1.45 lbs/ft²)
PD Reserve 160 ft² (1.36 lbs/ft²)

Well those are not the safest of wing loading. Have a hell of a higher chance of mangling or killing your self under canopy than ever using your AAD.

[crustySCSA69 0]

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Normal exit yet could never get stable. Began spiral spin and I was out at about 2500 feet. The AAD deploed a deformed reserve at 650' and I landed on the run way. Only broke both ankles. Grateful for my life and grateful for CYPRES.

above is the original post

page after page of total 'AAD is good' 'AAD is wussy' nonsense ... along with, 'Cypres saved you, maybe you should quit'

the germane point here folks, is that NO ONE taught this guy how to get out of an unintentional spin...

the only student to answer the question said he was NEVER taught how to get out of one... (although he seemed to have good awareness of what to do in the air, good for him, even if he does land shitty)

are we all so modern now.... that it can't happen ?
you've done AFF (with people holding you) so how could you spin on your own ??
so why bother imparting how to immediately correct it ??

I agree with TWARDO from another thread... you guys don;t even know how to go in right....

[mjosparky 3]

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What you learn in the FJC isn't anywhere near what you eventually need to know. And what you need to know can't be taught in the FJC.

Thats why if you don't look at your whole time in this sport as continued education from the end of your first jump till you quit or die you have the wrong attitude.

That just about covers what several people have been trying to convey.

There are only 2 reasons not to know something about your gear. One is you are not aware it exist and 2 you can’t be bothered taking the time to find out. Drop zones a littered with knowledgeable people that are willing to spend time teaching. But you have to make the effort.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Reginald 0]

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Thats not an option I will jump, but will take almost every precaution I can to make sure I make the safest jump I can.

Sabre2 150 ft² (1.45 lbs/ft²)
PD Reserve 160 ft² (1.36 lbs/ft²)

Well those are not the safest of wing loading. Have a hell of a higher chance of mangling or killing your self under canopy than ever using your AAD.

What? A 1.45 on a medium performance canopy for a guy that jumps every week (is current) and has 700+ jumps? Oh, come on, those are not unreasonable numbers.

And to a prior poster, he has family, so what? Are we now going to start requiring that only people without any family can skydive?

I do think that JohnDeer should stop jumping for an important reason though. He drinks more than his fair share of beer on Friday nights! If he quits there will be more for me!

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[in2jumping 0]

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What? A 1.45 on a medium performance canopy for a guy that jumps every week (is current) and has 700+ jumps? Oh, come on, those are not unreasonable numbers.

I think it is for someone taking "almost every precaution I can to make sure I make the safest jump". He would be much safer under a 210 and a PDR218, if he was truly trying too "make the safest jump".

[billvon 2,379]

>CAN one become dependent on the CYPRES and have it affect one's
>own preparedness? Sure. But if someone won't jump without a
>CYPRES, does it mean that that MUST be the case? I wouldn't say
>that.

If you are willing to jump without a cypres, it is certainly not the case.

If you are not willing to ever jump without a cypres, it may be the case.

As someone else said, it's somewhat (but not exactly) akin to a motorcycle helmet. They are great safety devices. But if you won't even roll your bike into the garage without putting one on, you may be counting on it to do more than it can.

[Reginald 0]

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What? A 1.45 on a medium performance canopy for a guy that jumps every week (is current) and has 700+ jumps? Oh, come on, those are not unreasonable numbers.

I think it is for someone taking "almost every precaution I can to make sure I make the safest jump". He would be much safer under a 210 and a PDR218, if he was truly trying too "make the safest jump".

LOL. You can choose to parse his statements as much as you like to support your opinion but why stop at a 210? Why not put him under a NAV 260 instead of a 210, where does it stop? How about a Manta? He is a current skydiver under a medium performance canopy at a moderate WL for his experience. There is nothing unreasonably unsafe about it. (did I just put a triple negative in a sentence?)

And personally, I'm back to my position that he should stay home with his family to keep him from depleting the Dropzone resources; specifically beer. He drinks too much on a Friday night. And FYI he doesn't jump on Saturday.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[mjosparky 3]

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LOL. You can choose to parse his statements as much as you like to support your opinion but why stop at a 210? Why not put him under a NAV 260 instead of a 210, where does it stop? How about a Manta? He is a current skydiver under a medium performance canopy at a moderate WL for his experience. There is nothing unreasonably unsafe about it. (did I just put a triple negative in a sentence?)

Laugh all you want. Landing little parachutes is still the #1 killer in this sport. And I bet they all thought their wing loading was reasonable.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[JohnDeere 0]

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Thats not an option I will jump, but will take almost every precaution I can to make sure I make the safest jump I can.

Sabre2 150 ft² (1.45 lbs/ft²)
PD Reserve 160 ft² (1.36 lbs/ft²)

Well those are not the safest of wing loading. Have a hell of a higher chance of mangling or killing your self under canopy than ever using your AAD.

At least you kept the bolded part bold so its obvious your just ignoring what i typed. I don't do anything over 90's so I reduce the chance of my canopy killing me.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[billvon 2,379]

>I don't do anything over 90's so I reduce the chance of my canopy killing me.

I'd argue that that could increase your odds of being killed by a mistake under canopy.

The people who (IMO) are most at risk of being injured under a smaller canopy are those who have a policy of not doing any turns near the ground. Some day they get cut off and they turn to avoid the collision using the only method they know - pulling down a toggle. These sorts of incidents are often described by people saying "I don't get it - he never did hook turns!"

This isn't to say that you should hook turn on every jump, of course. But by learning to do higher performance landings, and practicing them at least occasionally under ideal conditions, you can learn more about handling your canopy near the ground, and that might help when the shit hits the fan.

[JohnDeere 0]

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LOL. You can choose to parse his statements as much as you like to support your opinion but why stop at a 210? Why not put him under a NAV 260 instead of a 210, where does it stop? How about a Manta? He is a current skydiver under a medium performance canopy at a moderate WL for his experience. There is nothing unreasonably unsafe about it. (did I just put a triple negative in a sentence?)

Laugh all you want. Landing little parachutes is still the #1 killer in this sport. And I bet they all thought their wing loading was reasonable.

Sparky

Yea that little ol 150 . Everybody watch out for the swoop master........ Watch out Jeb, you dont know shit about little canopy's.....

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[JohnDeere 0]

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>I don't do anything over 90's so I reduce the chance of my canopy killing me.

I'd argue that that could increase your odds of being killed by a mistake under canopy.

The people who (IMO) are most at risk of being injured under a smaller canopy are those who have a policy of not doing any turns near the ground. Some day they get cut off and they turn to avoid the collision using the only method they know - pulling down a toggle. These sorts of incidents are often described by people saying "I don't get it - he never did hook turns!"

This isn't to say that you should hook turn on every jump, of course. But by learning to do higher performance landings, and practicing them at least occasionally under ideal conditions, you can learn more about handling your canopy near the ground, and that might help when the shit hits the fan.

Bill,Bill,Bill can you please show me where I said I dont do speed induced turns? I do all the time when the landing area is clear (min. people) I start my turn higher than alot of people so it has plenty of time to naturally recover. I know now im gonna kill myself by hooken it in and im not being as safe as i can, you can twist my words and make me look however you want cause frankly I could care less (not directed just at you Bill, your not that special!) I have taken 2 canopy courses, and flock with others. I enjoy canopy work and practice new stuff all the time.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[mcordell 2]

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>I don't do anything over 90's so I reduce the chance of my canopy killing me.

I'd argue that that could increase your odds of being killed by a mistake under canopy.

The people who (IMO) are most at risk of being injured under a smaller canopy are those who have a policy of not doing any turns near the ground. Some day they get cut off and they turn to avoid the collision using the only method they know - pulling down a toggle. These sorts of incidents are often described by people saying "I don't get it - he never did hook turns!"

This isn't to say that you should hook turn on every jump, of course. But by learning to do higher performance landings, and practicing them at least occasionally under ideal conditions, you can learn more about handling your canopy near the ground, and that might help when the shit hits the fan.

Does that logic apply to driving? Does this mean that I should drift my car around corners every time I turn so that when I go into an unintentional skid I am more prepared to control it?

In regards to AADs. I don't have that many jumps, but I would much rather jump with an AAD than without. I know....I haven't been around long so I couldn't possibly have encountered many who were unconscious and saved by their AAD.....except for the unfortunate fellow at Lost Prarie I witness landing on his reserve and unconscious when I was there about 12 years ago. And I couldn't possibly know of a guy that collided with another guy in the air, both of which were unconscious for the rest of the jump. One had an AAD and the other didn't. For one jumper, he had vertigo for a while. For the other one, the jump lasted the rest of his life.

I wouldn't say an AAD is GOING to save my life, but I have a nice shiny new Cypres 2 so why not use it. For the record, I have two rigs and one doesn't have an AAD, but I'll still jump it. I just would much rather have one than not.

www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

[billvon 2,379]

>Does that logic apply to driving?

Yes - definitely!

>Does this mean that I should drift my car around corners every time I turn so
>that when I go into an unintentional skid I am more prepared to control it?

Uh, no. Like I said above: "This isn't to say that you should hook turn on every jump, of course."

Likewise, you shouldn't drift your car around every turn. But training to do that under ideal conditions - perhaps an abandoned parking lot, or a driving school, or on a track - will help you survive if you ever do lose traction during a panic turn.

[old_timer 0]

I started diving in 1967 Back in the day, you would have made your last dive! You made it don't quit now.
I had a landing go bad on me when I was first learning to jump---- spent four days in a hospital I had no idea who i was or where I was. But when I was better and away from doctors care i went back to the sky where I belonged.
Get better work on your stableity and get back in the sky! If you do not jump any more no you can not call yourself a skydiver! But you can tell people that you did that a few times and got hurt and quit the sport! In order to be a skydiver you must jump! I have been at it for 44 years now and love the sort, yes I have been hurt lots two dislocted shoulders both have been opperatied on one works fine the other not so good. But I still dive I will never be great or good b ut I do have fun and that is all that matters! I love this soprt and most of the people in it! So quit winng and get better and get back in the sky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How does that tee shirt go(shut up and Jump)

[mcordell 2]

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>Does that logic apply to driving?

Yes - definitely!

>Does this mean that I should drift my car around corners every time I turn so
>that when I go into an unintentional skid I am more prepared to control it?

Uh, no. Like I said above: "This isn't to say that you should hook turn on every jump, of course."

Likewise, you shouldn't drift your car around every turn. But training to do that under ideal conditions - perhaps an abandoned parking lot, or a driving school, or on a track - will help you survive if you ever do lose traction during a panic turn.

It was more in jest than serious. I drive for a living, often quite fast, and yes I do actually induce skids intentionally for training when I get a chance in an empty parking lot.....specifically when it's icy out.

www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

[in2jumping 0]

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At least you kept the bolded part bold so its obvious your just ignoring what i typed. I don't do anything over 90's so I reduce the chance of my canopy killing me.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3709400;search_string=stiletto%20150;#3709400

"Low turn, trying to get into the wind (8-10 mph). He really wasn't a swooper never turned more than 90s base to final.
He jumped a wings container with a Stiletto 150 wing loading around 1.2"

[slcooper 0]

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I started diving in 1967 Back in the day, you would have made your last dive! You made it don't quit now.
I had a landing go bad on me when I was first learning to jump---- spent four days in a hospital I had no idea who i was or where I was. But when I was better and away from doctors care i went back to the sky where I belonged.
Get better work on your stableity and get back in the sky! If you do not jump any more no you can not call yourself a skydiver! But you can tell people that you did that a few times and got hurt and quit the sport! In order to be a skydiver you must jump! I have been at it for 44 years now and love the sort, yes I have been hurt lots two dislocted shoulders both have been opperatied on one works fine the other not so good. But I still dive I will never be great or good b ut I do have fun and that is all that matters! I love this soprt and most of the people in it! So quit winng and get better and get back in the sky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How does that tee shirt go(shut up and Jump)

CLAPPING LOUDLY!!!!!!!!!!!

I couldn't agree more. Dude, it's your life, you are dead each time you jump out of a plane. It's up to YOU to save your life. You were saved by a Cypress but don't expect it to happen next time. If you want to try it again that is YOUR decision. I respect you for at least trying and not standing on the ground saying "why would anyone jump out of a perfectly good airplane?"

You must care about this sport or you wouldn't have posted the same shit 3X on a skydiving forum. Be a man and get back in the air, otherwise, don't call yourself a skydiver and take that closing pin neclace off.

Why would anyone jump out of a perfectly good airplane? Cause the door was open!

[mjosparky 3]

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"Low turn, trying to get into the wind (8-10 mph). He really wasn't a swooper never turned more than 90s base to final.
He jumped a wings container with a Stiletto 150 wing loading around 1.2"

And if Dear John wants to do the research he can find a 100 more that fit in the same category. But it is much easier to keep skipping along wearing those rose colored goggles.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[JohnDeere 0]

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At least you kept the bolded part bold so its obvious your just ignoring what i typed. I don't do anything over 90's so I reduce the chance of my canopy killing me.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3709400;search_string=stiletto%20150;#3709400

"Low turn, trying to get into the wind (8-10 mph). He really wasn't a swooper never turned more than 90s base to final.
He jumped a wings container with a Stiletto 150 wing loading around 1.2"

Maybe he should have done more cross wind and down wind landing's like I do just to do them. I feel conferable landing any direction, but nice try!

Edit to add. Your saying pretty much the same thing Bill said. Check post 139 were I commented on your post before you made it.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[JohnDeere 0]

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"Low turn, trying to get into the wind (8-10 mph). He really wasn't a swooper never turned more than 90s base to final.
He jumped a wings container with a Stiletto 150 wing loading around 1.2"

And if Dear John wants to do the research he can find a 100 more that fit in the same category. But it is much easier to keep skipping along wearing those rose colored goggles.

Sparky

Sparky boy put the pipe down! What part are you having a hard time comprehending? I know there are plenty low turn landing incidents. Hey if you hate HP canopy so much then goto the Canopy forum and you will have all kinds of people to talk shit to. I jump safely and anybody that knows me will tell you that, even if they dont like me. If you would like to come and watch me jump and tell me how unsafe I am then bring it the fuck on, cause you wont find much! Oh and pass the pipe cause you damn sure dont need anymore!

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[mjosparky 3]

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I jump safely and anybody that knows me will tell you that, even if they dont like me.

Does this sound familiar to anyone else? You stay safe John. FYI I don’t smoke.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[JohnDeere 0]

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I jump safely and anybody that knows me will tell you that, even if they dont like me.

Does this sound familiar to anyone else? You stay safe John. FYI I don’t smoke.

Sparky

Please I am not the 100 jump wonder skygod, and that is very ignorant of you to say such a thing with no proof What ever make you look cool almighty one!

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!