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ever been told you messed up someone's jump?

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i recently heard a couple of newer jumpers discussing a RW jump one of them had been on with some seasoned jumpers. and they mentioned being worried the other jumpers would tell them they messed up thier jump because they turned the wrong way for a point.

does this ever happen or was it the jumper's performance anxiety?
diamonds are a dawgs best friend

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It used to happen all the time. Debriefs were referred to as finger pointing sessions. Many people feel this was one of the main reasons freeflying took off as juniors were not willing to spend their money and time just to be treated like shit.
The best way to avoid it is a) be honest about your experiance and ability, and b) don't jump with assholes.

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The best way to avoid it is a) be honest about your experiance and ability, and b) don't jump with assholes.



Ding ding ding. I've heard newbies say that if I (or other more experienced jumpers) ask them to join a skydive. I like to reassure them that as long as we plan a safe, fun jump, there's no way that they can ruin the jump. If they get down and are beating themselves up for performance, I will quickly point out "you didn't do anything in the air that scared me, and we're all on the ground smiling about it, so it was a successful skydive." (Of course, if that wasn't the case we'd have a talk about the safety issue, but usually it's just a "feet on ass" or "reaching for grips" or "forgot next point" kind of problem, which can be fixed with more practice and feedback).
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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*note to self, dont jump with krisanne* i dont want no "safe" jump, the unsafe jumps are the most fun! :). there are a few people that i dont jump with belly anymore b/c of how they act after the jump, its actually one reason why i stopped doing belly for the most part. its too structured and people got to butt hurt when something didnt go perfect, i'm not here to be a monkey, i'm here to have fun! belly jumpers seemed to have lost how to do that. IMHO.
IHYD

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i'm not here to be a monkey, i'm here to have fun! belly jumpers seemed to have lost how to do that. IMHO.



I'm all for positivity, before and after the dive. Anyone who's been organised by members of world class teams will have noticed their upbeat and non-judgemental attitude to dirt dives and debriefs. There's no reason to come down on someone because they lack skill or experience, and we are all learning all the time.

But for me there's still definitely a line between not taking a jump too seriously, and putting in the effort to make it at least reasonably successful.

Ever since I started doing 'serious' teams, I do find myself getting frustrated when fun jumps don't go to plan just because people can't be bothered to prepare them on the ground, or do what they know they should in the air. I don't expect perfection, and God knows I'm not capable of it most of the time ;) - but to me the most fun jumps are the ones that 'work', not the ones with the most funnels.

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Could happen, but I haven't heard it often.

My DZ works hard to avoid that sort of situation. Every weekend we have load organizers. The organizers for the novice/intermediate level are selected, in part, for their ability to be positive and encouraging, while still providing the necessary feedback for improvement.

There a couple of local jerks who chew on novices. We work hard to steer the novices away from them! Fortunately there are so many positive, encouraging, welcoming belly fliers, that the novices don't need to jump with the grumpy ones.

Then of course on Fridays... the old guys jump. They are very explicit about being willing to jump with anybody. If you jump with them you had better be prepared.... TO LAUGH AND LAUGH. They have a good time and drag fellow jumpers into their good times!
The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

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i recently heard a couple of newer jumpers discussing a RW jump one of them had been on with some seasoned jumpers. and they mentioned being worried the other jumpers would tell them they messed up thier jump because they turned the wrong way for a point.

does this ever happen or was it the jumper's performance anxiety?



If it's me that does it, I hope someone tells me if I screwed up, since there are still times that I do something that I might not be aware is incorrect for the given jump/exit position/whatever. Can't learn if nobody tells me! Usually, it all seems to get done in a joking fashion, and everyone has a laugh and goes on to the next jump (unless as stated above, a safety issue ... then a bit more serious conversation ensues!).
As long as you are happy with yourself ... who cares what the rest of the world thinks?

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I like to reassure them that as long as we plan a safe, fun jump, there's no way that they can ruin the jump.



It’s all about payback. When I first started there were people willing to burn a jump ticket on me in an effort to make me better jumper. They never yelled at me or talked down to me. But they would offer advise if I wanted it. I tried to pass this on as I got better and now I see others are doing it also. Good on you Lady.

Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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>i'm here to have fun! belly jumpers seemed to have lost how to do that.

Or they just have fun in a different way. Getting 20 points in time, or pulling off a really nice 19 in 8-way, is really fun and rewarding for some people. For other people, it's fun to do more serious bigways. Other people just want to get out and make faces at each other. As long as you talk to people about what you want to do, it's all good.

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How bad can it get????

The worst I saw was at a post dive when the guy who went low on the formation showed up and immediatly got punched in the mouth by the LO.:o:o:o

I was lurking the DZ to check out the vibes see if I wanted to invest in new gear.:S:S

I didn't jump for another 8yr's & after I moved 1500 miles from that place.

after
One Jump Wonder

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Many years ago, I had a LO bite the back of my hand (he had the grip) so hard in freefall that he drew blood, through my glove... seriously.

He later explained he was pissed at somebody on the other side of the formation. He lost his job about 3 days later (unrelated incident). One of the last jumps I ever did as an active participant, He now organizes in Florida. And I just shoot video.

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he was pissed at somebody on the other side of the formation. He lost his job about 3 days later (unrelated incident).



You really think the two were unrelated?

Anyhow, I'm one of the guys who likes to jump with newbies to show them how to learn while still having fun. It's payback for certain assholes when I was coming up, and pay-forward for the good guys who were behaved like good guys.

I like RW, and I like careful RW, but I don't like it when it becomes anal RW. Too much like work. (Except for safety issues; I'm very anal about that.) If that makes me "not serious", well that's fine with me.

A fun jump ain't a fun jump if it ain't fun. At least not for me.

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i'm here to have fun! belly jumpers seemed to have lost how to do that. IMHO.



I think it's the jumpers you joined, not the fact that they were/are on their belly.

As a guy in the middle (way more skills than the newbies, way less skills than the true veterans) I experience both. When the vets invite me, they know what they are getting. When I invite newbies, I know what I am getting. It might come down to expectations.

If the newbie expresses concern they might "screw up" our dive I make it very clear that the expectation is that they be safe and learn something - everything else is icing on the cake - and we always have fun. I also really enjoy the opportunities for swoop practice.

Standard response to "I'm not very good" is "There is only one way to get better." Too many people fade away for other reasons; very poor form to lose future fellow skydivers because of unrealistic expectations on the part of them or the experienced jumpers.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

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Yes... but try to develop a thick skin, keep working to improve your skills, and eventually your skill set will surpass some of the loudmouths and people who seem to have a need to belittle others to make themselves look good.

Of course another way is to simply not jump with the hardasses.

Blue Ones!

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Here we have guys for whom it`s always someone else at fault for screwing a jump. Always.

OTOH, there are dudes that just think about themselves. One buddy of mine blew perfectly good dive (it was supposed to be record breaking dudeist 3-way) just to get a good photo of himself >:(. I was never that pissed after jump.
dudeist skydiver #42

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A point is a point, and anyone can miss a point. If the experienced guys wanted perfection, they wouldn't invite the newer jumpers on their jump, they'd make a team.

;)

Anyway it IS for fun, and it is a sport, so being a little generous and sportsmanlike goes with it, IMHO.
Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet.

I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you?

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...it does happen. Most try to soften it up though. What I can't stand is the "Captain Obvious" approach. "where were you on that one buddy...haha?" Some people are dickheads and I am not afraid to call one out on this type of shit. Usually they don't fuck with you anymore.

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Thanks for saying that, because I jumped by myself for probably 100 jumps after I finished the STP program with only a couple of jumps in between with another person.I was so worried about ruining someone elses jump that I chose to jump alone. I used the time to become more comfortable in the air; however, I wish I would have spent some of that time with other people.
Brian

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The only one to blame, is the person who organized the jump to begin with. If you don't have many jumps, they should assume the level won't be up to par with someone with 1000 jumps. So, to come off as "you blew my jump", is foolish.
Don't put together unrealistic jumps with newcomers. Even with many jumps, most people plan things that simply aren't happening. It's always a great plan on the ground, until you get in the air and realize...this shit is f*cking hard.

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100 jumps your self ? What was going on at your DZ ? Thats not right,,,,,are you overly timid ? Someone should have noticed and sucked you into the fold....[:/]



=1.... NO KIDDING!!! Where were the old dogs? Timid or not, we would have dragged this neewb into a group (despite kicking and screaming if necessary).
The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

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