Bill Dause is under the chopping block!!

[IanHarrop 41]

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The Court makes the following rulings on the Plaintiff's Motions In Limine:
[snip]
6) to exclude reference to any publication by Jan Meyers is granted.
[snip]

see Collision Course
That article was written in 1990.
It's my understanding that Dause's attorney did not find out about it until after some deadline related to discovery.

.

Thanks for the article. It helped me understand.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[timmyfitz 0]

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Fantastic news! Glad this was settled properly.

Not to be picky, but this was not a settlement. It was a verdict. It was a victory.

And it is fantastic news !

Not to be picky, but he said it was settled properly, not that there was a settlement.

[nshaver2 0]

I agree every exit is special but like I said the dangers of the exit should be determined by the type of the aircraft or the type of exit you are doing NOT by a careless pilot who doesn't level out.

[rehmwa 2]

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Even for those who don't like Bill, this is great news.

This is great news.

I've seen this form of the comment a couple times. I've met Bill and Kathy and like them both just fine. They are decent people.

I can see people that don't "know" Bill. But if you knew him, I can't imagine anyting worse than just neutrality, and most liking the guy.

Just like anyone else in the world. If you know them, they are likable.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[riggerpaul 1]

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I agree every exit is special but like I said the dangers of the exit should be determined by the type of the aircraft or the type of exit you are doing NOT by a careless pilot who doesn't level out.

The pilot was doing exactly what was expected - he was climbing past the exit point.

He was not being careless.

Why did the jumper not use an exit that would provide the safety required? This wasn't an RW exit, it was a solo exit. He didn't have to worry about staying with anybody, taking a chunk out, or anything like that. The only thing he had to be specially aware of was not hitting the tail, and he failed to make that adjustment.

In skydiving, we must ALWAYS be aware of the needs of the situation and take appropriate actions. We do it all the time.

If the dropzone wants my low pass to be done in a climb, I need to accommodate that, or I need to make a different jump.

Consider, there are occasionally accidents that involve people walking into propellers on the ground. Do you want to tell the dz that they must load the aircraft only when the engines are shut down? Of course you don't. But why not? The loading could be accomplished more safely if the props weren't turning. You accept that risk and you take appropriate actions to mitigate the danger. If you don't, and you walk into the turning prop, who was careless? Why should walking into a prop be different from hitting the tail?

[davelepka 4]

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I agree every exit is special but like I said the dangers of the exit should be determined by the type of the aircraft or the type of exit you are doing NOT by a careless pilot who doesn't level out.

The pilot in this case was determined NOT to be careless, reckless, or against industry standards by a jury of his peers, in accordance with the legal process of the US.

Please do not attempt to catagorize him as otherwise.

[Harmless 0]

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I agree every exit is special but like I said the dangers of the exit should be determined by the type of the aircraft or the type of exit you are doing NOT by a careless pilot who doesn't level out.

http://www.makeithappen.com/spsj/collisio.htm

Edumacate yourself

"Damn you Gravity, you win again"

[diablopilot 2]

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I agree every exit is special but like I said the dangers of the exit should be determined by the type of the aircraft or the type of exit you are doing NOT by a careless pilot who doesn't level out.

The pilot in this case was determined NOT to be careless, reckless, or against industry standards by a jury of his peers, in accordance with the legal process of the US.

Please do not attempt to catagorize him as otherwise.

I disagree. A jury of his peers would have been jumpers, pilots, and others who all have significant experience in the sport of skydiving as it relates to safety and aircraft operation. If the most widely recognized skydiving organization in the world (USPA) is on record as saying allowing exits without a cut is a bad idea, then one might just assume they know something.

The judgment did not simply say the pilot's actions were the safest, but rather that skydiving was dangerous and they had no ability to say otherwise.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[rhys 0]

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I disagree. A jury of his peers would have been jumpers, pilots, and others who all have significant experience in the sport of skydiving as it relates to safety and aircraft operation. If the most widely recognized skydiving organization in the world (USPA) is on record as saying allowing exits without a cut is a bad idea, then one might just assume they know something.

The judgment did not simply say the pilot's actions were the safest, but rather that skydiving was dangerous and they had no ability to say otherwise.

I take it you are dissaponted with the decision?

What one dropzone deems dangerous compared to another, allowing high performance turns etc...

What you use as an exampole is subjective, in england handicam is banned, in other places it is rife...

congratulations to Bill, Kathy and the whole Lodi crew. I bet projects will be mellow for at least a week!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[diablopilot 2]

Since you're biased and irrational, I really don't see the need to reply to YOU, however for those that may be reading this, I am mixed bag about the decision. In on respect I see it as support for the idea that skydivers should take personal responsibility for their actions. On the other hand there are now people that still honestly believe a no cut climbing exit in a low tail aircraft is acceptable.

Ed had it right when he said skydivers need to know what they are getting into, the problem with that lies in a DZ that has such a weak safety culture and has a handful of gung ho "cool kids" who seem to defy the rules as an example for the the new wave of skydivers to follow.

Who can expect someone with 100 jumps to be interested in learning about aircraft safety when no one tells them it's important? Simply telling someone "don't do that" is not effective. Creating someone who is looking for all the opportunities that might kill them is much more difficult, but also much more rewarding.

Oh. Wait. You probably were not listening just then. Too busy doing a "flip" with your tandem "punter".

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[jsaxton 0]

when I first started I read all oj Jan's articles AT LEAST twice.

[crustySCSA69 0]

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guys with 15 jumps don't do hop and pop's from the 99.

if i was Bill i'd say "fuck it, no one hop and pops"
sucks for everyone else but how can you blame him ?
blame the brainless leach that saw PAYDAY after he fucked up....

adding to this after reading more here ... if you EVER looked out a door, back at the tail and thought ANYTHING but a dive, straight down thru the door made any sense ... then you are a total fucking idiot and deserve to have your head removed by said tail ...

[rhys 0]

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Since you're biased and irrational,

that is a PA and it is also the pot calling the kettle black!

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Who can expect someone with 100 jumps to be interested in learning about aircraft safety when no one tells them it's important? Simply telling someone "don't do that" is not effective. Creating someone who is looking for all the opportunities that might kill them is much more difficult, but also much more rewarding.

So he wasn't warned and explained the peril of jumoin up on exot before the incident, do you actually read what you say as well as others?
The guys is an idiot and one we don't want in skydiving, it evey idiot could sue the DZO for thier own idiocy, then skydiving would be very expensive and slow, no hot loads, no back to backs, 5 hours training with each paunter...

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Oh. Wait. You probably were not listening just then. Too busy doing a "flip" with your tandem "punter".

Too busy focusing on me and what you dislike about me rather than seeing reason...

... Nice 1 [big thumbs up!]

i gotta go do 10 tandems, I havn't jumoed in 2 days feeloing a littel uncurrent, I might have to practice my front flips today!



Its a shame(for you) you didn't gain finacially out of this law suit, but it seems customers will be driving past your DZ to jump for half the price for years to come.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[mjosparky 3]

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Since you're biased and irrational,

that is a PA and it is also the pot calling the kettle black!

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Who can expect someone with 100 jumps to be interested in learning about aircraft safety when no one tells them it's important? Simply telling someone "don't do that" is not effective. Creating someone who is looking for all the opportunities that might kill them is much more difficult, but also much more rewarding.

So he wasn't warned and explained the peril of jumoin up on exot before the incident, do you actually read what you say as well as others?
The guys is an idiot and one we don't want in skydiving, it evey idiot could sue the DZO for thier own idiocy, then skydiving would be very expensive and slow, no hot loads, no back to backs, 5 hours training with each paunter...

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Oh. Wait. You probably were not listening just then. Too busy doing a "flip" with your tandem "punter".

Too busy focusing on me and what you dislike about me rather than seeing reason...

... Nice 1 [big thumbs up!]

i gotta go do 10 tandems, I havn't jumoed in 2 days feeloing a littel uncurrent, I might have to practice my front flips today!



Its a shame(for you) you didn't gain finacially out of this law suit, but it seems customers will be driving past your DZ to jump for half the price for years to come.

Did you read through your response before hitting the "post reply" key? After reading through some of your recent posts it appears that your ability to express yourself in a coherent manner is diminishing. Some of the topic you bring up and the way you response to others seem to be scattered and disorganized. While I very seldom agreed with you at least your posts were clear and concise. Not knowing you it is hard to determine what is going on with you. It could be you are standing to close to the bottle or even the pipe. You might want to consider getting some outside help while it is still your decision. Not meant to flame just an observation.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[jumpwally 0]

+1......nice

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[rhys 0]

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Did you read through your response before hitting the "post reply" key?

probably not!

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After reading through some of your recent posts it appears that your ability to express yourself in a coherent manner is diminishing. Some of the topic you bring up and the way you response to others seem to be scattered and disorganized. While I very seldom agreed with you at least your posts were clear and concise. Not knowing you it is hard to determine what is going on with you. It could be you are standing to close to the bottle or even the pipe. You might want to consider getting some outside help while it is still your decision. Not meant to flame just an observation.

Sparky

So my typing is no good and I was probably tired when I typed it. whoop de fucking doo!

The message still stands, calling me irrational is a personal attack and against the forum rules.

diablopilot is consitently badmouthing Lodi and turns any positive conversation about the place into a negative one.

I used to take more pride with my spelling and punctuation but sometimes I could care less!

This is not about me anyway and I would rather the discussion stayed on topic.

Learn to read between the lines, these distractions stray away from the topic...

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[jimmyh 0]

Bwahahahaha! OMG! Seriously?

At this point my better sense is telling me to stay out of this "conversation," but, mate, or is it broo?, you're just making it way too fun!

First of all, go back through this thread and see how many times you called my friend and "idiot" before you talk about personal attacks.

Then go stand in front of a mirror, make a really serious face, and say "woop de fucking doo" without cracking a smile. Hahahahahahahahaha! Maybe it sounds tougher with your accent....I just think it sounds ridiculous.

The whole thing about Lodi is that it's unapologetic about how it operates. When monkeys like you pound on keyboards trying to defend it, the sweater unravels...so just stop.

You are making me wish for the first time since I left 2 1/2 years ago that I still worked there: I'da had you twisted in a week. hehehe ;)

Oh, one more thing: go back to taking pride in ur spelling and punctuation cuz you'll be doing yourself a favor. As of right now I'm pretty sure you've never even had a thought worth spelling correctly.

Woop de fucking dooo HAHAHAHAHAHA! Thanks I really needed to laugh tonight.

p.s. if you're tired, try getting some rest.

[jimmyh 0]

And considering the place you are trying soooooooo hard to defend, I'd say that Jimi Hendrix quote doesn't suit you.

[rhys 0]

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At this point my better sense is telling me to stay out of this "conversation," but, mate, or is it broo?, you're just making it way too fun!

First of all, go back through this thread and see how many times you called my friend and "idiot" before you talk about personal attacks.

I am actually banned from a certain forum (SC) for calling someone an Idiot.

they are an idiot but i'm not allowed to call them that, know that now.

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Then go stand in front of a mirror, make a really serious face, and say "woop de fucking doo" without cracking a smile. Hahahahahahahahaha! Maybe it sounds tougher with your accent....I just think it sounds ridiculous.

whoop whoop de doo!

means I could care less, but you probably didn't work that out!

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The whole thing about Lodi is that it's unapologetic about how it operates. When monkeys like you pound on keyboards trying to defend it, the sweater unravels...so just stop.

I spent a month training there in 2008 I witnessed how the place worked, was invited multipule times to come and work there, and the following year I did.

I watched many people come and go, some were made to leave and some simply passed through. I never saw anyone that stormed out unsatisfied.

You have/had the choice to be there or not, my skydiving improved signifiacantly while I was there, I made many friends and enjoyed my time immensly.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[stratostar 5]

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I spent a month training there in 2008 I witnessed how the place worked, was invited multipule times to come and work there, and the following year I did. (edit)I watched many people come and go, some were made to leave and some simply passed through. I never saw anyone that stormed out unsatisfied. (edit) my skydiving improved signifiacantly while I was there, I made many friends and enjoyed my time immensly.

All that is fine a dandy, but it don't mean you know shit about what is really going on there or at any dz, your washing and cleaning the airplanes each week don;t make you an expert on how well maintained the AC is or is not maintained, or you standing around seeing happy TDM people leave, don't mean you know that Bill is no longer hiding cash from the books under his bed. (not that he is doing that, or at least no reports someone has ripped off his bed again)

Point is a person has to be involved in the very inter workings to really know the dark side of anyplace or operator, a simple passing by or a season of instructing is not going to provide you with the insight of people who have spent 10, 15 or 20 years working on site.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[diablopilot 2]

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diablopilot is consitently badmouthing Lodi and turns any positive conversation about the place into a negative one.

To me more accurate I have a problem with Mr. Dause and the way he operates.

I support most jumpers at the Parachute Center, as they are USPA members and that's what I'm supposed to do as an S&TA.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[rhys 0]

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Point is a person has to be involved in the very inter workings to really know the dark side of anyplace or operator, a simple passing by or a season of instructing is not going to provide you with the insight of people who have spent 10, 15 or 20 years working on site.

They wouldn't have worked there so long if they were that opposed to what was going on, the 'real' piont is that no one forces anyone to be there. And bill has been doing ot longer than anyone out there.

My 2 year old sticker on my helmet says 44th anneversary, so the parachute centre has been around 46 years now!

Whoe to say who has to do what?

he won that trial and his planes are on the waiting list to be ran through, speculation does noone any good.

John was working on the planes full time the whole time I was there and planes that had any probelems were in that hangar until they were fixed. Niether you or I can say whether John was up to scracth with the work, it will take the FAA report, but that has not happened yet!

You paint such a bad picture of a great thing, Bill either likes you or not, and I see that it is bad for people he doesn't like, as eccentric as he is there is method to his madness. fortunately for my wife and I he likes us alot and we were treted well.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[mjosparky 3]

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My 2 year old sticker on my helmet says 44th anneversary, so the parachute centre has been around 46 years now!

The Parachute center might be that old but Bill hasn't owned that long. In the late 70's or early 80's he was a regular at Perris.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[rhys 0]

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The Parachute center might be that old but Bill hasn't owned that long. In the late 70's or early 80's he was a regular at Perris.

Sparky

when did it become his then? it would be interesting to know, who owned it before him?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[topdocker 0]

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The Parachute center might be that old but Bill hasn't owned that long. In the late 70's or early 80's he was a regular at Perris.

Sparky

when did it become his then? it would be interesting to know, who owned it before him?

I just called Bill to get the word from someone who really knows:

He started training students in '64, that becomes the start date, then moved to Alta as the Alta Parachute Center. After a few moves he stopped with the location on the moniker and just became the Parachute Center. He move to Pope Valley in '76 and then its current location in Lodi in '81. Bill said he didn't jump much at Perris, but a bit at Elsinore when he would pass through the area.

Now back to our regularly scheduled thread...

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