12 hours. Finally. But no badge...

[Airman1270 0]

In November I reached my 12th hour of freefall, just a few weeks and 30 years since my first FJC. Last week I learned that USPA will not recognize my achievement because I don't have a "D" license. I guess this means I didn't really reach 12 hours, eh? I never bothered with the SCR, SCS, Falcon, Eagle, etc. but, damn, it would be nice to have some tangible recognition of my sky career.

Some nice people at headquarters suggested I ask the BOD to consider fixing this problem, and I contacted the appropriate folks. But why is this rule in place at all? Why does our leadership appear to give kneejerk support for this whole notion of requiring a "D" for its various ratings? If someone can meet the practical requirements for working with students, demo accuracy, or competition he should be able to get the appropriate ratings and/or compete at the Nationals regardless of what license he holds.

Please don't tell me the primary reason for this system is to "encourage" member to purcha$e the "D" license.

Cheers,
Jon S.

[DiverMike 5]

It makes absolutely no sense to require a 'D' license for a certificate of recognition that is strictly based on experience and has no other intrinsic value. I can understand making people have a 'D' license for some ratings, but it makes no sense whatsoever for a "certificate of recognition". I almost didn't believe you until I looked at the USPA application http://www.uspa.org/Portals/0/Downloads/Form_badges_app_2008_08.pdf and it does require a 'D' license. I would have lost that bet.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[MakeItHappen 15]

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Please don't tell me the primary reason for this system is to "encourage" member to purcha$e the "D" license.

Ok I won't because you already know that.
Try again with the Membership Services comm to get it changed.
The last time it was requested, July 03 (pg 21), it was defeated.

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[pilotdave 0]

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would be nice to have some tangible recognition of my sky career.

If the A-license in your pocket isn't enough recognition, get the D!

I have no idea why they require a D, but I also don't see the big deal. Whats your reason for not getting it?

Dave

[diablopilot 2]

Agree with your assessment. Will see if I can put in a word of support at the next BOD meeting, and at least see if I can get an understanding of why it is so.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

Maybe a person doesn't want to meet one of the requirements (i.e. night jumps). It still should not invalidate the accomplishment of 12 hours of freefall, IMO.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[MakeItHappen 15]

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Maybe a person doesn't want to meet one of the requirements (i.e. night jumps). It still should not invalidate the accomplishment of 12 hours of freefall, IMO.

The rules are silly. Recently there was someone who was night-blind that want to put in for an achievement award only she did not have a d license because of the night dive requirement. So she put in for a restricted d license, so that she could get the achievement award.
FMI pg 21

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[topdocker 0]

It might be too close to this BOD meeting to get on the agenda for full action, but I'm sure this will get discussed.

On the surface it does sound a little silly to me, but I would like to delve into this a bit and find the reasoning behind it.

Thanks!
top

Jump more, post less!

[DiverMike 5]

Interesting that there was nothing in the meeting minutes about the discussion or why the proposal was defeated. From the meeting minutes:" The committee chose to make no change to the current award requirement." Was there any justification for the choice? Usually there is a reason why you choose. Possibly because there can't be more than a handful of 'A' license holders with 12 hours freefall and it isn't worth the time and energy to change the requirement for a couple people. Sucks to be you

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[davelepka 4]

30 years and that's what you get. How long have you been a member of the USPA? The whole time? Even half of that should be enough to get you a badge.

I'm qualified for a 12 hour badge, but never put in for one. I've got my 'D', and if you want it I'll get a bagde and send it to you, no license required. I'd be happy to recognize your achievement.

[jimmytavino 16]

way to go Jon.....and congratulations on accomplishing 12 hours of freefall !!!!!

it is NO small feat....

i have followed with interest, over the years,,, your sentiments regarding folks who began jumping decades ago.... who share the same love and longing for the sport as any 10,000 jump Enthusiast....
who survived and hung in there all these years... despite some jumpers and DZs who might have snickered, at "old gear", or who scratched their heads, if you indicated that your reserve was Round......
Your A license, your adherance to the BSRs and your steadfast pursuit of that milestone is to be admired.....
and I do.....
good job...
remember,,, "illigitimi non carborundum"
"don't let the Bastards wear you down".
bravo to davelepka for his meaningful and considerate offer....he tooo is one of the good guys...

Think of How many people who don't even have 12 Minutes in freefall,,,,often pass themselves off as 'i'm a skydiver',, having made one or two tandems...

You Sir!!! ,, are the real deal....certificate or Not.

jimmytavino
A 3914

[hjumper33 0]

Dont give in!! I had a special little pride in having only my A for a long time. Then one bored day at the dz, I took the B,C,and D. I now have my D, but feel dirty, and still like to sign stuff with my A license number. Im pretty sure I can get my 12 hour now too, and ill also volunteer you mine.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Why does our leadership appear to give kneejerk support for this whole notion of requiring a "D" for its various ratings?

Smart leaders would get people to contribute voluntarily so that they're not faced with the choice of raising membership dues (which could get some non-current skydivers and people with non-USPA home DZs to drop their memberships) or cutting services.

Octa-nona-diamond awards are one example. Requiring a D-license is another.

I saw through what they were doing and didn't bother getting a license (D) until I had about 1500 jumps and was moving where I wouldn't have friends to vouch for me so it would be inconvenient to not have one.

[moonglo 0]

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In November I reached my 12th hour of freefall, just a few weeks and 30 years since my first FJC. Last week I learned that USPA will not recognize my achievement because I don't have a "D" license. I guess this means I didn't really reach 12 hours, eh? I never bothered with the SCR, SCS, Falcon, Eagle, etc. but, damn, it would be nice to have some tangible recognition of my sky career.

Some nice people at headquarters suggested I ask the BOD to consider fixing this problem, and I contacted the appropriate folks. But why is this rule in place at all? Why does our leadership appear to give kneejerk support for this whole notion of requiring a "D" for its various ratings? If someone can meet the practical requirements for working with students, demo accuracy, or competition he should be able to get the appropriate ratings and/or compete at the Nationals regardless of what license he holds.

Please don't tell me the primary reason for this system is to "encourage" member to purcha$e the "D" license.

Cheers,
Jon S.

I discovered this several years ago when I tried to get my 12 hour, and have since passed 1000 jumps and 24 hours. I don't have my D because I haven't been able to make my 2nd night jump over the last several years - everytime I try I'm injured or have gear issues, or weather, or aircraft issues, or I can't participate due to work/school preventing me from making a daylight jump before hand, or everyone else night jumping has to do solos, etc. my local S&TA contacted USPA on my behalf years ago and I was told to get my restricted D then upgrade when I make my night jump. As an unemployed student, I can't afford to pay for my license twice (my husband and I work at the dz to pay for jumps) , and I too would like to know why USPA will only formally recognize your accomplishments if you hold a D!

[jimjumper 25]

My wife is night blind and never got her "D'. She has 12 hr and Gold Wing quals plus had over 30 years in USPA. She quit USPA a few years ago without any awards. I was told by a USPA National Director that the "D" requirement was a money maker for USPA and wouldn't be changed. Of course that was about 8 years ago.

[skybytch 259]

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I can't afford to pay for my license twice (my husband and I work at the dz to pay for jumps)

Who told you that you'd have to pay twice?

All you need for a night jump is darkness, a Cessna, a pilot and someone to jump with. You work at a dz with your husband and you can't manage to get a two way night jump done? You aren't trying real hard.

[billvon 2,384]

> If someone can meet the practical requirements for working with
>students, demo accuracy, or competition he should be able to get the
>appropriate ratings and/or compete at the Nationals regardless of what
>license he holds.

Many of the practical requirements for instructors, doing demos, and/or competing are covered by the requirements for the licenses. It's like asking why a flight instructor should have to get a pilot's license before he can become a CFI - because he does have to know how to fly first, even if he's a really good instructor.

However, if you meet the requirements for the awards, there's no reason to not give them to you. Bringing it up to the BOD would be a good idea.

[kallend 1,621]

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> If someone can meet the practical requirements for working with
>students, demo accuracy, or competition he should be able to get the
>appropriate ratings and/or compete at the Nationals regardless of what
>license he holds.

Many of the practical requirements for instructors, doing demos, and/or competing are covered by the requirements for the licenses.

And some license requirements are completely unrelated.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kimemerson 7]

I don't see the word "required" anywhere. It just looks like having a D is assumed. So cross out the "D" and just put in your A, B, or C # and let them sort it out. Then tell them - don't ask - that it is apparently NOT a requirement and is obviously a clerical error. Mind you, people tend to get "required" and "recommended" confused. As an example, a lot of people believe a "B" license is required for night jumps. No license is required for a night jump. It's just considered sage advice. I would doubt USPA could defend a policy requiring a D license for a badge, at least not to anyone here. So wing it - so to speak - and put in for the badge anyway. For all you know the lack of a D won't be noticed.

And to beat a dead horse again, what's the point of a license anyway? Ok, it proves a certain level of proficiency and it is probably a good idea for Instructional ratings. But for competition and achievements? I think we've all known skydivers with 1,000's of jumps and no license who can still fly circles around the rest of us. They can't compete, instruct or, apparently, get recognition from the same association they pay dues to. The logic is lost on me.

[popsjumper 2]

Is it just me or what...seems everytime I turn around its the USPA hosing us in one way or another with little common sense behind it nor any lube.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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...I was told by a USPA National Director that the "D" requirement was a money maker for USPA and wouldn't be changed. Of course that was about 8 years ago.

Please explain. I am clueless on how a D generates any more than any other license...unless it's viewed as nothing more than a stepping stone to a Pro rating....but that's no different than going from one license to the next.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[billvon 2,384]

>I think we've all known skydivers with 1,000's of jumps and no license who
>can still fly circles around the rest of us.

Absolutely. I know a few 10-14 year olds who are far better freeflyers than I am. Doesn't mean that it's smart or safe to have them compete at Nationals, or teach skydiving.

[fasted3 0]

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I don't see the word "required" anywhere. It just looks like having a D is assumed. So cross out the "D" and just put in your A, B, or C # and let them sort it out. Then tell them - don't ask - that it is apparently NOT a requirement and is obviously a clerical error. Mind you, people tend to get "required" and "recommended" confused. As an example, a lot of people believe a "B" license is required for night jumps. No license is required for a night jump. It's just considered sage advice. I would doubt USPA could defend a policy requiring a D license for a badge, at least not to anyone here. So wing it - so to speak - and put in for the badge anyway. For all you know the lack of a D won't be noticed.

And to beat a dead horse again, what's the point of a license anyway? Ok, it proves a certain level of proficiency and it is probably a good idea for Instructional ratings. But for competition and achievements? I think we've all known skydivers with 1,000's of jumps and no license who can still fly circles around the rest of us. They can't compete, instruct or, apparently, get recognition from the same association they pay dues to. The logic is lost on me.

I applied for the 12 hr badge, and the USPA sent me a letter stating that a D was required. When I reached 500 jumps and got the D license, I got the award. No, it didn't make any sense to me either.

But what do I know?

[psf 1]

where do you jump that you got 12 hours of freefall before 500 jumps????

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ignorance is not bliss

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[riggerpaul 1]

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I don't see the word "required" anywhere.

In the 2009 SIM, Section 8-2.C.1.d, on page 174

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be the holder of a current USPA D license or its accepted foreign equivalent