Nightingale 0 #1 March 9, 2004 in the "incidents" forum, there is a story of a girl who, after having an open container problem "fixed" in the plane, was hesitant to jump, and got out anyway because of pressure from the other jumpers in the plane. She had a mal. When I was having a lot of anxiety issues on my level 2 AFF (switch of Otter to Skyvan and change of JMs in the last five minutes before boarding, combined with some anxiety issues to begin with), the jumpers in the plane put a lot of pressure on me to jump, even after I'd already declined. I still didn't jump (which was the right choice for me... I was not in the right headspace to make a safe skydive at that point) but the folks in the plane made it a lot harder for me to make the right choice. encouragement is one thing, pressure is another. We have to know where to draw the line. If a jumper says that something feels wrong and they're not jumping, I think the best course of action is to respect their choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #2 March 9, 2004 You're right. If you don't feel it, don't jump. What's a lost ticket compared to lost self-confidence.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #3 March 9, 2004 You actually have a very good point. Being encouraging is one thing, saying that the person will be fine, just to relax, etc., but it's another thing to keep pushing after the person flat out said "No". Quite frankly, I'm glad my AFI encouraged me on my Level 5 (first non-tandem skydive), cuz I don't think I would have gone had he not. And damn, look what a difference that made in my life!! Still, if he had said "STFU, quit being a puss and get out of the plane", then it would have been a different story. SHUT UP, JUMP, YOU LITTLE WUSSY!!! Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygirl1 1 #4 March 9, 2004 I totally agree with you................after having lived at a DZ and learning to pack.....I decided to learn to skydive............at times it was awful........I remember many a time I felt like I was being pushed into doing things above my progression level.....I almost quit......one incident happend that sticks out in my head very clearly......I was going on my 2nd...10 second delay in the static line program..I boarded the plane and was psyched to jump........my JM and good friend told me I was going all the way to the top.......I told him No....I was on a progression for a reason.....argument starts in the plane.......I refused to jump.......landed with the plane......he made apologies to me and is still a good friend........... Some consider me anal when it comes to my jumping.......maybe it is because I lived there before I jumped and heard all the horror stories.... If I am totally uncomfortable with a situation I will not jump.......if every instinct is telling me not to get out of the door....I won't. Good topic Nightingale skygirl1" Mean people SUCK!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luv2Fall 0 #5 March 9, 2004 ....totally agree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murphyka 0 #6 March 9, 2004 I agree as well. I think that this topic can be expanded to not only jumping when you are hesitant, but also hesitant to make certian types of jumps. Everyone has there own routine. Some people are not comfortable with trying new things on a whim. Right after I got my license there was a jumper trying to get me to do a Rodeo jump with him when I didn't feel like I could pull it off with the amount of experience that I had, plus I had never jumped with him before and had no idea of how "skilled" he was. Finally, I told him assertively that I just wasn't comfortable rodeoing him. Of course, he thought I was being a beeotch, but I could care less. I didn't put myself in a situation where I was not comfortable. Know when to say No and be ready to deal with the reactions of ignorant people.Blue Skies!!! Kimmy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyyhi 0 #7 March 9, 2004 Great post Kris. . .I haven't had this ever come up yet, but if I do, I will just say NO. . . People, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER let someone push you into doing something that is beyond your comfort level. . .that is how people get hurt. . .and it applies to ANYTHING in life, including skydiving. . .________________________________________ Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ FGF #6 Darcy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SarahC07 0 #8 March 9, 2004 I completely agree as well. If you don't want to jump, then you shouldn't be pressured into it. However, I had the opportunity to jump from a 'cooler' type of aircraft and when we got to altitude I was completely scared... almost to the point of refusing to jump. I don't know what got to me, but fortunately, I had another jumper in the aircraft with me who gently persuaded me to jump and I'm sure as hell glad he did. I jumped and all was well... I had a blast. Here is a quote I'm sure has been quoted here before... but regardless.. it fits well: "I'd rather be on the ground wishing I were in the air, then in the air wishing I were on the ground." Personally, I have never voluntarily decided to ride down with the plane... and I don't plan on it, unless other circumstances make it necessary.... Sarah Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #9 March 9, 2004 Personally I make my go/no go decision before I get on the airplane. The only reason I can think of that I would land with the plane when the majority of the load isn't would be a gear problem - and in a case like the one you mentioned nobody would be able to talk me into jumping. I do agree that no one should be pressured into making a jump that they aren't comfortable with. I've had people give me shit on the ground for not jumping because I made what I consider a "safety call" on myself. Something along the lines of "why yes, as a matter of fact, I am a wussy" seems to work well to get them to STFU. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #10 March 9, 2004 Very good topic and it is simply common courtesy to allow a fellow jumper to decide if they would like to exit for a skydive or not... For sure anyone planning a personal skydive has that right...( and responsibility) However what is the right approach ?? when a tandem student starts to get second thoughts... I know all situations vary,,, but to what extent should the Tandem Master, other staff persons or onboard solo jumpers go.......toward helping that person overcome the uncertainties which can occur during a climb to altitude.....especially first timers and "one and only " timers.. I sometimes feel that a person may really, really want to complete such a "life adventure" and would maybe feel Bad if they changed their mind.....But then again... it would depend on the person's words, attitude and composure level at that very moment.... I am not a TM,,, but a few times have worked with a TM to create the encouragement needed in the student, for them to make the decision to accomplish the jump... .... THEN the smiles all around,,, upon landing, seemed to show,,, that we did the right thing.........any thoughts on this scenario????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TheBachelor 4 #11 March 9, 2004 Your post should apply to both students and experienced jumpers alike. If you're not comfortable with making the jump, go ahead and ride the plane down. Although some people disagree, I apply this to spotting as well. (With the green light on) If I look out the door and don't think the spot is O.K., I'll wait to go. If the pilot wants to talk to me about it on the ground, then so be it. That being said, on the rare occasion when I've waited to go, I've never been talked to. Yes, everyone else in the plane is yelling to go, but they have no idea where we are -- they just see the light. Just my .02.There are battered women? I've been eating 'em plain all of these years... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyyhi 0 #12 March 9, 2004 Quotewhy yes, as a matter of fact, I am a wussy Lisa, great line. . .I will have to remember that should I ever need it. . .________________________________________ Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ FGF #6 Darcy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #13 March 9, 2004 personally, if a tandem looks terrified and I'm sitting across from them, I'll tease them and try to get them to laugh, or talk about something irrelevant to the jump to take their mind off it. Ultimately, though, they're the TM's responsibility. Students should be left mostly to their JMs, I think, if they're having anxiety issues. Once I said I wasn't jumping that day, the JMs just said "okay. its your call." the people pressuring me were the sport jumpers who were not my instructors. The JMs both said I'd made a good call. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kris12 0 #14 March 9, 2004 Quotewhy yes, as a matter of fact, I am a wussy Works well when the winds are higher than you are willing to jump in (or if it's just too cold) and you're asked why aren't you jumping. I like using some form of that line. kristen swooo #3 MB #3587 P.M.S. #66 "so let go, jump in...what're you waiting for? it's all right 'cause there's beauty in the breakdown" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AV8OR7 0 #15 March 9, 2004 ***Students should be left mostly to their JMs, I think, if they're having anxiety issues. Once I said I wasn't jumping that day, the JMs just said "okay. its your call." the people pressuring me were the sport jumpers who were not my instructors. The JMs both said I'd made a good call. _________________________________________ Totally agree..............most of my problems with extreme pressure were from other skydivers....not my JM.....example.... The first cold day in wisconsin.........about 10 degrees at 10,000 feet. I was supposed to do my first 30 second delay from 8,500.......my JM told me I needed to wear gloves.........I told him I was really uncomfortable jumping with gloves for the first time in the cold weather........and told him I would like to make the jump the next day....giving me time to practice pulling and exiting the aircraft on the ground. He completely agreed. I got a bunch of crap from some jumpers about getting over my fear .....to me it was not a fear.......it was a safety issue..............the next day came and I was gearing up for my jump.......still really nervous about the gloves.............and before I knew it I was getting yelled at by another skydiver about my fear.......my skydive went right out of my head.......I did not get on the plane that day......... skygirl1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pccoder 0 #16 March 9, 2004 Yea, I hear ya. Now shut up and jump. PcCoder.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #17 March 9, 2004 LOL! I'm jumping on Friday... I PROMISE!!!!! Its been too damn long! I'm going crazy. even my roommate is giving me dirty looks and telling me "go throw yourself out of a plane, already!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuteless 1 #18 March 10, 2004 if ANYONE is not comfortable enough to make a jump, for WHATEVER reason, then they should NOT jump. Pressure from other jumpers should be directed at NOT forcing someone to jump when they are not comfortable in doing so. I think there are too many skydiving fatalities, and undue pressure on someone will only endanger their life because they are not functioning at a mindset for the jump conditions, either weather, psychological, or equipment. If you do not feeling like making a jump, go down with the aircraft, and let those who bad mouth you go take a jump in the nearest lake. Stay Safe.....Stay ALIVE. Bill Cole D-41 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FrflyPimpDaddy 0 #19 March 10, 2004 YO skygirl1.......whats up with all the........ You know......1 dot works just as wel........as 10? Does anyone else.......find this annoying? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 259 #20 March 10, 2004 QuoteDoes anyone else.......find this annoying? No more or less annoying than bad spelling, typos, lack of punctuation, lack of capitilization, inability to break a long post up into paragraphs, run on sentences and/or the use of too many words that end in "ly." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FrogNog 1 #21 March 10, 2004 QuoteYO skygirl1.......whats up with all the........ You know......1 dot works just as wel........as 10? Does anyone else.......find this annoying? Nobody makes you read it. And I just look at the dots as an indicator of the pauses while the writer is thinking. Slowly. To stay on the thread topic, I hate pressure to jump now. I'm still trying to figure out this big part of the exit timing thing: if a a Twin Otter is full of solos, how do I take as long in the door as I think I should (my rule of thumb is if I can see the eyes of TWO groups that left before me, it isn't time to go yet), and not be responsible for forcing the jumpers after me to require a go-around. That's the pressure I hate. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lee03 0 #22 March 10, 2004 No onw should be pressured to jump! Your right, encouragment is one thing, pressure is quite another. If it doesn't feel right to a person, they need not to jump!-------- To put your life in danger from time to time ... breeds a saneness in dealing with day-to-day trivialities. --Nevil Shute, Slide Rule Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites champu 1 #23 March 10, 2004 I think a lot of people take personal decision making skills for granted when razzing other skydivers about choosing not to jump. It's kinda a knee-jerk response to say, "relax you'll do/be fine" because butterflies come up in this sport so often. If someone had a gear issue come up that was making them uncomfortable, I'd definitely try and reassure them riding the plane down was the right thing to do. Tandems are completely fair game though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyhi 24 #24 March 10, 2004 QuoteI was not in the right headspace to make a safe skydive at that point I assume you were in the right headspace when you got on the plane, so I would be interested to know what caused you to not be in the right headspace at jump time. Bad spot, clouds, increased winds are a couple of things I came up with. Just wondered what caused your change.Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #25 March 10, 2004 Go/No Go is a personal choice. I NEVER try to force people to jump. Great post."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
TheBachelor 4 #11 March 9, 2004 Your post should apply to both students and experienced jumpers alike. If you're not comfortable with making the jump, go ahead and ride the plane down. Although some people disagree, I apply this to spotting as well. (With the green light on) If I look out the door and don't think the spot is O.K., I'll wait to go. If the pilot wants to talk to me about it on the ground, then so be it. That being said, on the rare occasion when I've waited to go, I've never been talked to. Yes, everyone else in the plane is yelling to go, but they have no idea where we are -- they just see the light. Just my .02.There are battered women? I've been eating 'em plain all of these years... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyyhi 0 #12 March 9, 2004 Quotewhy yes, as a matter of fact, I am a wussy Lisa, great line. . .I will have to remember that should I ever need it. . .________________________________________ Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ FGF #6 Darcy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #13 March 9, 2004 personally, if a tandem looks terrified and I'm sitting across from them, I'll tease them and try to get them to laugh, or talk about something irrelevant to the jump to take their mind off it. Ultimately, though, they're the TM's responsibility. Students should be left mostly to their JMs, I think, if they're having anxiety issues. Once I said I wasn't jumping that day, the JMs just said "okay. its your call." the people pressuring me were the sport jumpers who were not my instructors. The JMs both said I'd made a good call. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kris12 0 #14 March 9, 2004 Quotewhy yes, as a matter of fact, I am a wussy Works well when the winds are higher than you are willing to jump in (or if it's just too cold) and you're asked why aren't you jumping. I like using some form of that line. kristen swooo #3 MB #3587 P.M.S. #66 "so let go, jump in...what're you waiting for? it's all right 'cause there's beauty in the breakdown" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AV8OR7 0 #15 March 9, 2004 ***Students should be left mostly to their JMs, I think, if they're having anxiety issues. Once I said I wasn't jumping that day, the JMs just said "okay. its your call." the people pressuring me were the sport jumpers who were not my instructors. The JMs both said I'd made a good call. _________________________________________ Totally agree..............most of my problems with extreme pressure were from other skydivers....not my JM.....example.... The first cold day in wisconsin.........about 10 degrees at 10,000 feet. I was supposed to do my first 30 second delay from 8,500.......my JM told me I needed to wear gloves.........I told him I was really uncomfortable jumping with gloves for the first time in the cold weather........and told him I would like to make the jump the next day....giving me time to practice pulling and exiting the aircraft on the ground. He completely agreed. I got a bunch of crap from some jumpers about getting over my fear .....to me it was not a fear.......it was a safety issue..............the next day came and I was gearing up for my jump.......still really nervous about the gloves.............and before I knew it I was getting yelled at by another skydiver about my fear.......my skydive went right out of my head.......I did not get on the plane that day......... skygirl1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pccoder 0 #16 March 9, 2004 Yea, I hear ya. Now shut up and jump. PcCoder.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #17 March 9, 2004 LOL! I'm jumping on Friday... I PROMISE!!!!! Its been too damn long! I'm going crazy. even my roommate is giving me dirty looks and telling me "go throw yourself out of a plane, already!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #18 March 10, 2004 if ANYONE is not comfortable enough to make a jump, for WHATEVER reason, then they should NOT jump. Pressure from other jumpers should be directed at NOT forcing someone to jump when they are not comfortable in doing so. I think there are too many skydiving fatalities, and undue pressure on someone will only endanger their life because they are not functioning at a mindset for the jump conditions, either weather, psychological, or equipment. If you do not feeling like making a jump, go down with the aircraft, and let those who bad mouth you go take a jump in the nearest lake. Stay Safe.....Stay ALIVE. Bill Cole D-41 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrflyPimpDaddy 0 #19 March 10, 2004 YO skygirl1.......whats up with all the........ You know......1 dot works just as wel........as 10? Does anyone else.......find this annoying? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #20 March 10, 2004 QuoteDoes anyone else.......find this annoying? No more or less annoying than bad spelling, typos, lack of punctuation, lack of capitilization, inability to break a long post up into paragraphs, run on sentences and/or the use of too many words that end in "ly." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #21 March 10, 2004 QuoteYO skygirl1.......whats up with all the........ You know......1 dot works just as wel........as 10? Does anyone else.......find this annoying? Nobody makes you read it. And I just look at the dots as an indicator of the pauses while the writer is thinking. Slowly. To stay on the thread topic, I hate pressure to jump now. I'm still trying to figure out this big part of the exit timing thing: if a a Twin Otter is full of solos, how do I take as long in the door as I think I should (my rule of thumb is if I can see the eyes of TWO groups that left before me, it isn't time to go yet), and not be responsible for forcing the jumpers after me to require a go-around. That's the pressure I hate. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lee03 0 #22 March 10, 2004 No onw should be pressured to jump! Your right, encouragment is one thing, pressure is quite another. If it doesn't feel right to a person, they need not to jump!-------- To put your life in danger from time to time ... breeds a saneness in dealing with day-to-day trivialities. --Nevil Shute, Slide Rule Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #23 March 10, 2004 I think a lot of people take personal decision making skills for granted when razzing other skydivers about choosing not to jump. It's kinda a knee-jerk response to say, "relax you'll do/be fine" because butterflies come up in this sport so often. If someone had a gear issue come up that was making them uncomfortable, I'd definitely try and reassure them riding the plane down was the right thing to do. Tandems are completely fair game though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhi 24 #24 March 10, 2004 QuoteI was not in the right headspace to make a safe skydive at that point I assume you were in the right headspace when you got on the plane, so I would be interested to know what caused you to not be in the right headspace at jump time. Bad spot, clouds, increased winds are a couple of things I came up with. Just wondered what caused your change.Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #25 March 10, 2004 Go/No Go is a personal choice. I NEVER try to force people to jump. Great post."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
