IS this safe/legal ??

[Squeak 17]

rwieder

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The legality of this jump doesn't matter to me. It IS NOT a wise decision.

I'm sticking with what I know.

Best-
Richard

Skydiving is not a wise decision.
You pay your money you take your chances.
As long as all involved knew what was happening, and accepted the risks and possible consequences, Then I have no issue with it.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[rwieder 0]

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Skydiving is not a wise decision.

Man am I ever glad you brought that up, or I'd have thought wrong. And SkyDiving being not wise is an even better reason to be as safe as possible at all times, do you agree with that?

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You pay your money you take your chances. As long as all involved knew what was happening, and accepted the risks and possible consequences, Then I have no issue with it.

From your mindset, your not a safe person if your good with this stunt. I'm sticking to my guns. It isn't a wise decision to have a "Pole Clown" on the reserve pack tray of a tandem rig. People are whining and complaining about a non USPA rated TI taking passengers out on sky dives, and there's a few good with that. Are you?

Best-
Richard

[rwieder 0]

Hello Greenies / Mods. Shouldn't this post be moved to the Tandem section? I'm afraid if we don't get a handle on this it'll expand until deaths are suffered and families suing people to death.

Best-
Richard

[holie 0]

rwieder

Hello Greenies / Mods. Shouldn't this post be moved to the Tandem section? ...

It is there already ;-)
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4541447;

[AdD 1]

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Impressive to do it yes !!!!,

I disagree, this takes minimal flying skill and a large dose of stupid.

Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

[buckwheatzulu 0]

I think the photo is fake (photoshop), and someone is trying to wind us up.

[yeyo 1]

buckwheatzulu

I think the photo is fake (photoshop), and someone is trying to wind us up.

It's been done, I dont think its fake.
I've seen videos of this kind of jumps. With someone on top pole riding like in this picture, another jumper hanging under the passenger like a hybrid, and several stingers docking everywhere.

HISPA #93
DS #419.5

[rwieder 0]

In case you haven't noticed, this is the "Safety & Training" Forum.

PS: I checked, it's a double post. The other one in the Tandem section just has a pic, and maybe 4 responses. The Mods don't generally let this fly. Hmph...Well? Their business, not mine.

Best-
Richard

[wolfriverjoe 1,462]

yeyo

***I think the photo is fake (photoshop), and someone is trying to wind us up.

It's been done, I dont think its fake.
I've seen videos of this kind of jumps. With someone on top pole riding like in this picture, another jumper hanging under the passenger like a hybrid, and several stingers docking everywhere.

That video showed up a few years ago. Sangi thought it was a cool stunt and wanted to see it. Jump was done in Europe, IIRC.
The discussion in that thread was very, very similar to this one. Including some of the same people with the same opinions.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Arvoitus 1]

rwieder

From your mindset, your not a safe person if your good with this stunt. I'm sticking to my guns. It isn't a wise decision to have a "Pole Clown" on the reserve pack tray of a tandem rig. People are whining and complaining about a non USPA rated TI taking passengers out on sky dives, and there's a few good with that. Are you?

Best-
Richard

What skydiving 'stunts' do you deem acceptable beyond a solo, belly to earth, pull at 4000 feet jumps?

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[JohnMitchell 16]

normiss

I'll take your analogy and translate it to real world.
Ask Tex about zero-g rolling a 707

A bit of a mis-title. It was a 1 positive G roll. Aerodynamically, the plane didn't even know it was upside down. I've done that in a Twin Beech and kneeled on the floor the whole time. A zero G roll would have been a bit trickery on the equipment, hydraulic pumps uncovered, etc.

[rwieder 0]

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What skydiving 'stunts' do you deem acceptable beyond a solo, belly to earth, pull at 4000 feet jumps?

I've had 3 very close friends die in this sport. Doing stunts and uncool things, low ground turn, deploying at 800', swooping the ditch and not having enough experience to pull it off. You name it, I've seen it. I'll tell you like I told Shane Richertz, He used to refer to me as the "old man," I used to tell him (he was 26 I was 40) "I'll outlive you Shane, and I'll be reading about you in the incident forums" Bigger than Dallas, 2 months later.....gone. So YOU tell me, who's safer? I'm still here, the other 3 aren't. To this day, I relive that moment, and I have really bad dreams about it. I wish I never would have told him that, but I did. Until you go through that same thing while trying to avert being a statistic yourself you'll never know how that will change your mind about how things should be, and how they are.Think.

Best-
Richard

[billvon 2,738]

>and that was a demo flight with no fare paying passengers on by a company test pilot.

Good analogy. And to extend it, if that tandem was done by two expert TM's, one expert freeflyer and one expert videographer, with no paying passengers and with everyone knowing what to expect, then it might be acceptable.

Safe? No. Will the manufacturer like it? No. But it's up to those four people and the airplane pilot/owner as to whether or not it's safe enough for them to do.

[halorob 0]

Good job with the curse, Way to be a Dick Richard.
How is the parachute suppose to come out without the guy on his back to pull it out? Clearly its a PC in tow right? Stop being so serious all the time. Looks safe to me :)

[BMFin 0]

billvon

Safe? No. Will the manufacturer like it? No. But it's up to those four people and the airplane pilot/owner as to whether or not it's safe enough for them to do.

Why exactly would the manufacturer not like it? Shoudnt they rather be thankful for any test pilots doing any kind of product testing on their gear?

Is the manufacturer of my normal harness system going to get mad if I decide to make a mister bill on my rig?

[skytribe 16]

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Why exactly would the manufacturer not like it? Shoudnt they rather be thankful for any test pilots doing any kind of product testing on their gear?

If you'd really like to know if the msnufacturer think that these clowns are being productive test pilots and if the like these activities then why don't you send a mail to each of them.

[BMFin 0]

Yeah, most likely I would recieve the same kind of response if I were to ask about how manufacturers feel about doing mr.bill´s on their sport rigs.

IMO it´s my gear, I paid for it, so I can do what ever I want with it.

It never even occured to me how would mirage feel if I were to make a mr.bill on my own gear. To be honest, its none of their business.

[normiss 723]

If they were repeatedly sued for bad Mr. Bill's, I wouldn't be surprised if a waiver became part of buying the gear.
Like tandem rigs and ratings.


Reminds me of when I was a sponsored knee boarder.
HO Sports came out with a compression molded 720 board, about 3/8 thick, neutral buoyancy. With a three-flap Velcro strap, with a double d ring to increase the force against your legs.
That strap was IMPOSSIBLE to get out of under water.
So the system came with a waiver.
I LOVED that strap. Completely impossible to shred the board off during tricks. If you didn't know how to properly recover, breathe, relax, and then release the system, you could very easily drown.

Thing is, Strong was almost sued out of existence thanks to a few retarded TI's that killed their students through incompetency.
Survivors and their attorneys don't just sue the TI as there is typically no money to be had.

If there were enough fatal Mr. Bills on certain manufacturer, I would be damn near positive they would in fact care a great deal.
I'd be pretty disappointed if I couldn't buy a new rig because the manufacturers cannot assume the legal risk and are there no longer making rigs for civilians.

So enjoy your barber pole antics while you can.
Just don't document it please.

[billvon 2,738]

>Why exactly would the manufacturer not like it?

Because they fear lawsuits.

>Shoudnt they rather be thankful for any test pilots doing any kind of product testing
>on their gear?

Wouldn't exactly call that "product testing." I mean, you can do toggle hook turns all day long on a Stiletto and claim it's "product testing" but if you asked John LeBlanc he'd tell you it wasn't such a good idea.

[BMFin 0]

It seems you are mixing two totally different things together.
A)Doing this stunt with a wuffo customer
B)Doing this stunt with an experienced skydiver as a passanger

Now I would be interested to hear about a lawsuit against a manufacturer that was filed because two experienced skydivers used a piece of tandem gear in a way it wasnt ment to be used in the first place and they accepted the risks involved.

Obviously tandem gear mfgs have been sued because tandem students have been killed, but you shouldnt confuse this matter in this discussion IMO. Im sure you understand the difference

[normiss 723]

I understand the difference although I'm pretty sure you do not.

[rwieder 0]

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Now I would be interested to hear about a lawsuit against a manufacturer that was filed because two experienced skydivers used a piece of tandem gear in a way it wasn't meant to be used in the first place and they accepted the risks involved.

Why would a law suit be of interest to you? To my knowledge there haven't been any law suits, YET. But if this behavior doesn't get addressed quickly, you can bet it's just a matter of time before it hit's the fan. You can bet your bottom dollar the USPA is all over this, and they should be. And Mark does know what he's talking about.

Best-
Richard

[JerryBaumchen 1,271]

Hi Mark,

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I wouldn't be surprised if a waiver became part of buying the gear.

I know that this is being worked on as I type.

JerryBaumchen

[skydiverek 61]

http://skytube.com.pl/video/258/Banan-zgubi%C5%82-Denisa

[cpoxon 0]

BMFin

It seems you are mixing two totally different things together.
A)Doing this stunt with a wuffo customer
B)Doing this stunt with an experienced skydiver as a passanger

Now I would be interested to hear about a lawsuit against a manufacturer that was filed because two experienced skydivers used a piece of tandem gear in a way it wasnt ment to be used in the first place and they accepted the risks involved.

Obviously tandem gear mfgs have been sued because tandem students have been killed, but you shouldnt confuse this matter in this discussion IMO. Im sure you understand the difference

Maybe not tandem, but families of experienced skydivers have sued manufacturers before (and anyone else they could target) most likely against the deceased's wishes.

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live