TSA & traveling with rigs as carry on

[NWFlyer 2]

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It can be an issue on some of the smaller commuter planes on account of (lack of) availability of in-cabin stowage space.

Very true. But at least those will let you check plane-side. I'm okay with that because I've shepherded it through security, and I can watch it go into the cargo hold, and it's right there when I get off the plane. It's having to give it up so it can go through security and the whole baggage claim mess without me that worries me the most, though I have checked my rig a couple times with no problems.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[dannydan 0]

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them not being allowed to open it unless they detect trace explosives,

As I am reading through these posts, I need to STOP here and ask; what if we ARE carrying a rig that just went through a recent FIREing of the AAD??? hummm! Where do we goto to find out about getting any "trace" residue off the componets of our rigs???

[btvr 0]

Went to Eloy a couple weeks ago. I flew out of Raleigh. The rig went thru then the guy grabs my shoes and said "sir gonna do a test on these" I said sure. Was laughing inside on that one. Not one Question asked about the rig. On the way back, my brother and I both had our rigs. They just called the Supervisor and she did swabs on them. She was nice and made small talk and asked.. " Did you guys go to Eloy"? We said yes and said we had a great time. She zipped up the gear bags, said thank you and we were on our way. I figured Phoenix would be very familiar with Rigs. I expected to be questioned more at Raleigh and that was the second time I flew out of there with not one question asked. Funny thing was when my cigarette lighter went thru and the guy in back of me asked with a nervous look, "you're allowed to bring lighters"? I said Apparently. Like you could bring a plane down with one of those.

[brettski74 0]

Sitting in the departure lounge at LAX, now, pissed off and a little worried. The TSA folks here had apparently never seen a parachute before and the supervisor that looked at it wanted me to open it to show him what's inside. When I enquired as to what he needed to see, he said that there was an "opaque object" in side and indicated the approximate size. He didn't indicate where in the rig, but from the size and description I figured he's most likely talking about the Vigil control unit inside the reserve container. That said, as I'm sitting here and searching through the posts, I did realize that there is a hook knife on the leg strap that I would have been OK with losing, although from the size and description, I don't think that's what they were looking at. Unfortunately I didn't think of this at the time - I barely even think about the hook knife being there and nobody asked about it in Buffalo. You'd think with all the dropzones down here and the number of events that go on at Perris, LAX would see a lot of parachutes. I didn't have the Vigil X-Ray card with me as I couldn't find it before I left, however, that said, I don't think this guy would have cared. I mentioned that I could show him the manufacturer's website where they have x-ray images of Vigil equipped rigs but his response was this this would not be official and he'd still need me to open it. He also didn't care that I'd need an FAA certified rigger with appropriate tools in order to close the reserve container. I can understand his point. That said, I'm still rather unhappy about the whole thing.

End of story, they made me check it. There's nowhere to buy a bag on the ticketting side of the airport according to the people I asked, so my rig has now been checked in a flimsy plastic bag that was the best the check-in agent could do for me.

I guess the lessons to take away from this are:

remember your hook-knives if you have any on your rig.

carry the rig on inside a bag, just in case they are insistent on opening the reserve container so you can check it with some peace of mind that nobody's going to activate the reserve or rip off the cutaway handle.

[DSE 3]

I was in LAX only two days ago flying internationally, had no problems at all.
Half of it, IMO, is in how you present it. When I've not told them in advance what it is (as I'm coming to the conveyor) I've had issues. When I'm not smiling, cordial, funny, I've had issues.
Carried my hook knife, etc through both Terminal 5 (Delta Domestic) and Terminal 3 (VAustralia International) on Thursday night and Friday morning. No troubles, but I made jokes with both places, and had them smiling.
I do carry the Cypres Xray card, but no one has ever asked about it nor have I offered.

In addition to your tips, I'd suggest having a friendly, not talkative attitude, and help them see that you're not in any way wanting to make their day more difficult. They're assholes for the most part, so you've got to try to show them that you're in the game with them, not against them.

[brettski74 0]

I thought I was friendly and tried to be helpful. I was understanding of their need to be comfortable with it not being a security risk and I was chatting with the guy who escorted me back out. He said he was actually cool with it, but he's not the supervisor, so... It was during this conversation that he mentioned that none of them had seen a parachute before, and he's been there for 6 years. I tried to get them to describe what they thought they saw so that I could either show or explain it to them. The supervisor guy was really not very forthcoming with details. I did open up some flaps to show some of the metal components, but once we got to the reserve pin I explained that I don't have the training or tools to close it if it's opened. I don't think I was being difficult with him. I was stating a fact, because I'm not a rigger, nor was I carrying tools for closing a reserve container. Hell, I didn't even have a pull-up cord on me, so closing the main would have needed some improvisation, too.

I am really kicking myself about the hook knife. It's too late to know if maybe that's what it was. Like I said, what he described made me think of the AAD control unit, but with the vagueness of his description, who knows. At this stage, if it does get damaged, I'll just have to deal with it, now.

[ast4711 0]

I have the gut feeling that issues like this have more to do with the day to day mood of the personal at the airports and less with actual regulations or other hard facts...

Once (barcelona, yes the one near empuria, I am shure they saw parachutes before!) I got the answer "the security officer of the day does not allow parachutes as carry on items". Before and after that specific flight it was no issue at all.

On another travel a whole group of skydivers were refused to even check-in their equippment at baden-baden airport (Ryan-Air)....

Maybe he/she did not get laid (or to much) the night before...? :-)


alex

--
www.tandemmaster.net
www.skydivegear.de

[DSE 3]

It's certainly possible to run into "that guy" and I have on one occasion, needed to pull the TSA article on parachutes to share with a TSA supervisor.
I do have a rather low opinion of most of em', they're like 6th grade hall monitors (which is why humoring them usually works).
All in all, they *do* have the final say.
Interestingly enough, I flew thru Ben Gurion earlier this year, and my rig wasn't a problem for Israeli security, but my production camera was. They held me over my flight...and when they dropped it...let's just say it wasn't pleasant for anyone. When it was all over, it was "Well, sorry...your camera equipment presents a security risk that we're not going to allow." But my rig wasn't. No amount of humor, documentation, smiles, nor showing printed and internet credentials made any difference. If I wanted to fly, my camera gear had to be shipped.
It happens. And it surely sucks.
BTW, Delta (and I assume most airlines) have ski boxes in the back room that cost 12.00. They also have replacement luggage that they'll usually sell you cheap if necessary...

[Amazon 7]

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I do have a rather low opinion of most of em', they're like 6th grade hall monitors (which is why humoring them usually works).

Boy ain't that the truth....

[Baksteen 84]

When I went to Perris I didn't have any problems either way.

Both when arriving and departing I carried my rig in a gearbag and checked everything (including altimeter, hook knife and dytter) except my papers and helmets. They didn't ask anything, so I didn't offer any information, though I had the TSA-letter from the USPA website in my pocket and the cypres card in my wallet.

What I didn't have was a pull up cord, but I figured that I could close my main with a shoelace if necessary. Same for the reserve, though obviously I would have to have it repacked.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[brettski74 0]

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BTW, Delta (and I assume most airlines) have ski boxes in the back room that cost 12.00. They also have replacement luggage that they'll usually sell you cheap if necessary...

It was North West Airlines, which is now a Delta subsidiary. I did ask the guy if they had anything else or if there was anywhere this side of security that could sell me a bag or something. Maybe it's just a Delta thing or airlines that more routinely do freight?

It's all done now. I arrived in Buffalo this morning and my rig came out undamaged and all handles intact and in place, although the flimsy plastic bag didn't make it. On reflection, the plastic bag was useless against much more than dust, but I was tired and frustrated and desperate for anything that might protect my handles in transit. I'll just chalk this one up as a learning experience.

[brettski74 0]

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What I didn't have was a pull up cord, but I figured that I could close my main with a shoelace if necessary. Same for the reserve, though obviously I would have to have it repacked.

I've not tried to do it myself, but I suspect that it would be extremely difficult to close the reserve container with bare hands and a shoelace alone. The pilot chute spring makes it a little trickier to close than the main container, so you might find yourself needing something more than just bare hands and a shoelace.

[rdufokker 6]

Next time if you do have to pull the reserve make sure the TSA dumbass has his face right over it so he gets a pilot chute in the kisser.


You just can't fix stupid!!!

BS

Irony: "the History and Trivia section hijacked by the D.B. Cooper thread"

[brettski74 0]

I know it sounds like a good idea, but I'm rarely in the mood for a body cavity search, particularly when it's being done by a surly, broad-shouldered man.

[Halfpastniner 0]

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What I didn't have was a pull up cord, but I figured that I could close my main with a shoelace if necessary. Same for the reserve, though obviously I would have to have it repacked.

I've not tried to do it myself, but I suspect that it would be extremely difficult to close the reserve container with bare hands and a shoelace alone. The pilot chute spring makes it a little trickier to close than the main container, so you might find yourself needing something more than just bare hands and a shoelace.

Maybe you could just tie the grommets together with the shoelace, just enough to keep the pilot chute contained. Might make walking to the gate more interesting...

BASE 1384

[nerd137 0]

I'm leaving tomorrow morning to fly to Atlanta for the Good Vibes boogie and will be taking my rig as a carry on, sans gear bag. Hopefully I won't have any problems. I'm flying out of John Wayne in Orange County.

I did the same thing when I flew to Virginia 2 years ago and had no problems. On the way back the security guy said "Is that a parachute?" I told him it was and he just replied "Cool." That was it.

[pwln 0]

Every time I fly on an airline I carry my rig with me. I have NEVER had a problem. I have had a few minor delays. I Always have my Cypres Card AND the TSA document printed out.

I walk up and tell all of the TSA agents within earshot that I have a parachute and reach my cypres card across to the person behind the machine, even if they do not want it I keep handing it in that direction until they take it (or call a supervisor).

Here are the minor delays that I have had. Keep in mind that when I travel with my rig I allow 2 hours before my departure on domestic flights. I've never done international.

1. Leaving Lubbock, TX after working all week.
They did not have X-ray for checked bags so they hand search everything. No big deal. I let the TSA agent searching my checked bags know that I had a parachute and was heading for the machine for carry on bags in a few minutes. She said great, I will let everyone know so they can come over and take a look.
My rig was x-rayed about 6 times as ALL of the agents took turns looking at it and comparing to my cypres card. My Rig is a Racer (2 pin) so it does not exactly match the card but they were surprised at how close it was to the card.

That has happened at other airports on a smaller scale, a few came to look.

2. Leaving JAX after jumping in town and rushing to the airport with my rig NOT packed, just shoved in the gear bag. The TSA agents were not going to let it go. I followed my procedures of handing them the card, then I handed them the document. Still no go.

I TOLD the supervision to get out HIS manual and look up the information about parachutes as carry on items. (There was also someone with a big gun standing there). After a few more minutes and some radio calls someone came up that was X-military and a rigger, told them to swab the gear bag and let me go.

3. One time an agent wanted to open my gear bag (may have been at JAX) and the supervisor told them they were not allowed to, to just swab it and if there was a problem I was to open it for inspection.

I've always been nice to them, but firm, making sure they follow their procedures. If anyone has problems with the TSA they should tell them to have a supervisor look in the manual.

I have no problems having them look more than once, I hope it helps the next jumper going out of that airport.

At some airports they just look for that red box or alarm on the screen, I don't think they even look at the stuff because the belt is moving too fast.

A shoelace works to repack the main, and if requested I would repack the system right there in the middle of the way (as they are required to give me room to repack it) after I made someone vacuum the floor in the spot that I would be packing. I really hope that never happens.

[sundevil777 93]

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If anyone has problems with the TSA they should tell them to have a supervisor look in the manual.

Tried that, and the TSA idiot told me the letter I produced that should be in their manual had been superseded (lying of course).

I think carrying a rig on with no gear bag is asking for trouble. I know many do it without incident, but it only takes one nervous whuffo to express their fear to security and not only might you be forced to check it, but it could easily cause trouble for us long term (a real revocation of the current guidelines). What would you use when they someday make you check it (it is always their decision if they want to do it, no matter what the manual says is standard procedure)? You will really wish you had your own gear bag instead of the clear plastic bag they'll give you (think baggage handlers wanting to check out the cool backpack). Why is it important to have the rig out in the open for all to see?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[nerd137 0]

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Why is it important to have the rig out in the open...?

Convenience.

And saves $$$ on a gear bag. Seems kinda silly to me to buy a bag for something that was designed to fit over your shoulders already. Kinda like a backpack for a backpack or something. But that's me.

[sundevil777 93]

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Why is it important to have the rig out in the open...?

Convenience.

And saves $$$ on a gear bag. Seems kinda silly to me to buy a bag for something that was designed to fit over your shoulders already. Kinda like a backpack for a backpack or something. But that's me.

It won't be convenient when you are forced to check it. It doesn't matter what the TSA manual says, they can make that decision any time they want. You are more likely to be asked to check it if is is out in the open. I don't care how many times you haven't been hassled, be prepared for it to happen.

Your rig is not just a backpack. It is something that would likely give a lot of overly nervous whuffos heartburn if they realize what it is. Some will think you're cool, some will have an anxiety attack.

Come on people, we've been very fortunate to have an agreement with TSA to allow rigs as carry on. If enough nervous nellies cause a big stink, some asswipes at a TSA supervisors meeting somewhere will conclude the benefit for us isn't worth the pain in the ass for them, all because of the bad publicity from an incident involving Jane Q. Nervous and Joe Skydiver.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Amazon 7]

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Why is it important to have the rig out in the open...?

Convenience.

And saves $$$ on a gear bag. Seems kinda silly to me to buy a bag for something that was designed to fit over your shoulders already. Kinda like a backpack for a backpack or something. But that's me.

DUUUUDE... just get a cheap carry on... and put your rig inside... Why get into a fight with morons if you can avoid it....

[NWFlyer 2]

I'm of the opposite opinion - it's inconvenient *not* to have a gear bag.

For that stop in the airport restroom before or after the flight ... hmmm, nowhere to put it down and it's a little awkward having it on my shoulders for this.

So that when I put it in under the seat I don't have to worry about the gum someone stuck under there, or the guy in front of me spilling his drink and having it drip back onto my rig.

So that if I put it in the overhead, some yahoo with his too-big-for the overhead bin bag doesn't decide to move it by pulling on that convenient silver handle.

And the reasons others have mentioned ...

I already had a roller bag into which my rig fits perfectly, so I didn't have to buy something, but using the roller bag also leaves my arms free for a small backpack to carry on.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[timmyfitz 0]

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Why is it important to have the rig out in the open...?

Convenience.

And saves $$$ on a gear bag. Seems kinda silly to me to buy a bag for something that was designed to fit over your shoulders already. Kinda like a backpack for a backpack or something. But that's me.

Convenience= I want to look cool in front of the whuffos and let everybody know I'm a cool skydiver

[brettski74 0]

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It doesn't matter what the TSA manual says, they can make that decision any time they want. You are more likely to be asked to check it if is is out in the open. I don't care how many times you haven't been hassled, be prepared for it to happen.

I don't know that carrying it in the open is any more or less risky with regards to clearing security, but it seems that some people have inflated ideas of what the TSA policy guarantees you. Firstly, you're not guaranteed to be allowed to take any item, whether it's a parachute rig or anything else onto the plane as carry on until it's cleared by security. The TSA policy promises three things:

That they will make every effort to clear the rig through security without opening it.

If they do need to open it, you will be permitted to assist.

If the rig is opened, you will be given sufficient space to repack it.

Everything else is at the discretion of the TSA officer/s involved. They're not required to acknowledge any printed information you bring with you, including print outs from the TSA website or x-ray images provided by your AAD manufacturer. If you've never had a problem and you don't want to spend money on a bag for your rig, then great. I hope you never have problems, but if you have a problem someday and are asked to check it, I suspect you'll be wishing that you'd brought a bag to help protect it during transit. The clear plastic bag I was given by the check-in agent was pretty much useless and didn't make it to the other end.

[Amazon 7]

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Why is it important to have the rig out in the open...?

Convenience.

And saves $$$ on a gear bag. Seems kinda silly to me to buy a bag for something that was designed to fit over your shoulders already. Kinda like a backpack for a backpack or something. But that's me.

Convenience= I want to look cool in front of the whuffos and let everybody know I'm a cool skydiver

It used to be fun to look at the questioning wuffo's when they saw a parachute worn as a backpack.... and say...
What.... they didn't give you yours at ticketing???


Now... with scared people and the TSA on a nice little powertrip.. its just best to suff it in something non descript. Those who want to be A type personalities.. and demand their rights with TSA... might just want to take the TSA letter.. and the cypres card... and for those very special types who like to argue with the /TSA rocket scientists...... a nice big tube of KY might come in handy.


They have the power to screw you for hours on end.