cocheese 0 #1 March 30, 2010 This thread is for those that like to argue against AADs. Go ahead. Scare/imbalanced? This isn't FOX news. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tjm 0 #2 March 30, 2010 Quote This thread is for those that like to argue against AADs. Go ahead. Scare and inbalanced? This isn't FOX news. For the chance I might get to be on Fox News for worlds biggest human crater, Duh.If you're not living on the edge; you're taking up too much room! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #3 March 30, 2010 Doing my part to keep the landfills free of all those hazardous dead batteries...you know for KIDS! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #4 March 30, 2010 Doesn't really seem that this thread is taking off that well BTW.. I have a new cypres 2 in my new rig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #5 March 30, 2010 You don't have to worry about getting a reserve repack, when you go low.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topdocker 0 #6 March 30, 2010 I do CRW. I do not have $1000 burning a hole in my pocket. I once had one malfunction on my gear- the display was blinking, counting up and down, and I couldn't get it to shut off.top Jump more, post less! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #7 March 30, 2010 Because sometimes new jumpers need a little while to get together all the money they need for gear, so they don't immediately buy one, even if they really want one. Because its a big investment if one has a rig that is worth less than an AAD. Because the effective annual cost it is a big proportion of one's skydiving expenses in years where someone only makes 10 to 20 jumps a year. Because it is hard to fit an AAD onto my belly mount that uses cones and pins. Because it is expensive if one owns a bunch of rigs, where those rigs only occasionally get used. Because AAD's aren't made to be easily swapped from rig to rig without repacking them. Because for some types of jumping, they aren't nearly as useful, such as for accuracy. (You can still kill yourself hitting the tail of the airplane... so they aren't totally useless.) Because some argue that they don't want an AAD fire during a CRW wrap. (Others argue that if you are going down really fast at 750-850', you're already in deep shit.) Because sometimes the DZO just wants to cover his own ass from lawsuits by making you buy extra equipment that cost him nothing. In effect, he gets you to buy his insurance. Because it pisses off some of modern jumpers who want to impose their newer values on others. Because it gets expensive if you smoke it low. (I try to avoid that low.) Because some AADs are no good if you get them wet in a pond. Because I started skydiving when you were expected to pull on your own and die if you didn't. Because I don't want to have to pay for other people forgetting to pull on time. Still, I have a Cypres 2 on my main rig. And when I was a newbie, Tommy Piras took me under his wing for a jump. So don't think I don't know the value of an AAD. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacked 0 #8 March 30, 2010 Reasons not to buy an AAD? Ah, trick question. There is no reason not to buy. Points?The end result is directly connected to the effort applied Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #9 March 30, 2010 Is pointing out that having an AAD can increase your risk in some ways and that they are completely useless in many situations that can cause death considered to be arguing against them or being realistic about what they can and can't do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rover 9 #10 March 30, 2010 I don't buy into the 'I do CRW' arguement. If you are at 750 feet doing 78 mph you are donkey deep in shit and probably need all the help you can get. Why is it that CRW jympers think they are immune?2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cocheese 0 #11 March 30, 2010 Quote Is pointing out that having an AAD can increase your risk in some ways and that they are completely useless in many situations that can cause death considered to be arguing against them or being realistic about what they can and can't do? Do you have a reason not to buy one? Or do you just like to argue? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billeisele 122 #12 March 30, 2010 Takes the fun out of a low pull contest.Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cocheese 0 #13 March 30, 2010 We have a winner! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tjm 0 #14 March 30, 2010 Quote Takes the fun out of a low pull contest. ,and if your AAD pulls for you, that does not count. You would be disqualified.If you're not living on the edge; you're taking up too much room! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Will_Evo 0 #15 March 30, 2010 QuoteI don't buy into the 'I do CRW' arguement. If you are at 750 feet doing 78 mph you are donkey deep in shit and probably need all the help you can get. Why is it that CRW jympers think they are immune? I agree....AAD's aren't always on...they have an on and off. Just like an RSL. I have one, but when I do crw, it's not connected. The two compelling arguments against an AAD are expense, and multiple rigs. I can see that a jumper only making 10 jumps a month, would not want sacrifice those jumpers for many months to be able to afford an AAD. I can also see that someone jumping in excess of 3 rigs, having an AAD in each one would be extremely expensive and hard to keep maintained especially if they are a cypress. Also, I mean what are the odds of someone having a mal on one of 5 rigs they use, and it happens to be the one with the AAD. The chances just aren't there, they are more likely to need to deal with a bad situation than to be saved in one. So I can see this argument. -EvoZoo Crew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topdocker 0 #16 March 31, 2010 QuoteI don't buy into the 'I do CRW' arguement. If you are at 750 feet doing 78 mph you are donkey deep in shit and probably need all the help you can get. Why is it that CRW jympers think they are immune? I am not immune. I exit at a minimum of 6k for two-way CRW. I only get out if the plane is cut and configured properly. I wear a hard helmet. I jump with very experienced jumpers, and if I don't, then I control the situation. If I am doing CRW and have ended up doing 78mph at 750 feet, then I have cut away and should be getting a reserve out already or I am in such a tight spiral/wad that cutting my reserve loop is probably going to have no affect on the outcome. My reserve will be nicely contained along with all my appendages. I, too, was raised in the era of undependable AAD's, watching people get drug of planes at 13K by their reserves, open in the cessna when the pilot opened his window, fire when radios were used, etc. Trust me, I am more worried about the thousand other things that can happen to me in the plane, on exit, flying in competition mode for the two and a half minutes after exit, landing, and trying to walk back to the hanger while others try and kill me with their landings. Do we have an incident in the last 25 years where a crw jumper would have been saved by an AAD? topJump more, post less! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,121 #17 March 31, 2010 I have an AAD, and am glad. I'll replace it when it dies in a year or so. But the only necessary reason not to buy one is "I've thought about it and I don't want to." It's not essential for jumping. It's an added safety feature, and has reduced fatalities. It increases overall system complexity, and has to be taken into account. But it's a choice. If I were to die because I didn't have an AAD it wouldn't really be any sillier than if I were to die because I mishandled a malfunction. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #18 March 31, 2010 Quote Takes the fun out of a low pull contest. Sorry wrong thread. You may want to goto the "Reasons not to turn your AAD on. You can have an AAD and still be good at low pull contestNothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aykay 0 #19 March 31, 2010 QuoteDo we have an incident in the last 25 years where a crw jumper would have been saved by an AAD? top I recall reading about a cypres save when a dude doing crw thought he deployed his reserve but it was someone elses canopy on him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #20 March 31, 2010 QuoteTakes the fun out of a low pull contest. All you need is a hook knife, man, you can still win if you try....If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #21 March 31, 2010 QuoteQuoteDo we have an incident in the last 25 years where a crw jumper would have been saved by an AAD? I recall reading about a cypres save when a dude doing crw thought he deployed his reserve but it was someone elses canopy on him. Yeah, I remember reading about that. Maybe a decade back?? Guy tracked for a lake, figuring it was worth a shot, after someone hacked a canopy away that wasn't his reserve as he thought. Still, the original question is a valid one when it comes to the usefulness (or danger) of AAD's for CRW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kuai43 7 #22 April 1, 2010 QuoteI have an AAD, and am glad. I'll replace it when it dies in a year or so. But the only necessary reason not to buy one is "I've thought about it and I don't want to." It's not essential for jumping. It's an added safety feature, and has reduced fatalities. It increases overall system complexity, and has to be taken into account. But it's a choice. If I were to die because I didn't have an AAD it wouldn't really be any sillier than if I were to die because I mishandled a malfunction. Wendy P. NOW, we have a winner.Every fight is a food fight if you're a cannibal Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #23 April 1, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteDo we have an incident in the last 25 years where a crw jumper would have been saved by an AAD? I recall reading about a cypres save when a dude doing crw thought he deployed his reserve but it was someone elses canopy on him. Yeah, I remember reading about that. Maybe a decade back?? Guy tracked for a lake, figuring it was worth a shot, after someone hacked a canopy away that wasn't his reserve as he thought. Still, the original question is a valid one when it comes to the usefulness (or danger) of AAD's for CRW. ______________________________________________ I guess in that case the aad really did interrupt the process of natural selection. It's one thing to run out of time. It's another thing to give up.If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robinheid 0 #24 April 1, 2010 Quote This thread is for those that like to argue against AADs. Go ahead. They interfere with natural selection. SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #25 April 1, 2010 Because no device is infallible. And I'm a cheap bastard.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
