Sierra Thomas

[Sierrasmom22 0]

On Sept.22 2009 I lost my 22 year old baby girl to a horrible skydiving accident in Portage County Ohio.She wasn't even suppose to jump that day in fact this was her 1st and only jump,she went to watch her brother but decided after she got there to jump.She was soooooo beautiful,inside and out and I just want her memory to live on.Alot of things went wrong with the jump . I just dont understand why any instructor would put their life let alone his students in someone elses hands by letting someone else pack their chute?

[JohnDeere 0]

I am very sorry for Sierras friends and family!

First off I question who you are and your motives! The accident you speak of happened 9-19-09 not 9-22-09. I dont think a mother would forget that. If im wrong im sorry but you look very fishy!

Second we all take chances when we jump, everbody knows that and its obvious. Every first just student signs a waver that states the dangers of this sport and what can happen. Also parachutes being packed by other people is not out of the norm or is there anything wrong with it. I would say 90%+ of our reserves are packed by someone other than who is jumping the rig. Accidents happen, please troll elsewhere!

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[ordie1 0]

JohnDeere I think you hit the nail smack on the head!!

[Andy9o8 0]

If you are who you say you are, we're all very sorry for your loss.

Whether the instructor did or did not pack the main parachute probably had little or nothing to do with the accident. That being said, there is at least one piece of information about the accident, which has been published publicly, that suggests that the main parachute may in fact have been packed by the instructor on the jump (who, as you know, also died in the accident).

When a serious skydiving accident occurs, there are almost always multiple factors involved. That was certainly the case with this accident. Please understand that since you are a non-skydiver yourself, your lack of familiarity with skydiving is causing you to have incorrect presumptions about skydiving and its equipment in general, and to draw incorrect conclusions about the cause of this accident in particular.

If you really want to understand the causes of this accident, you need to educate yourself in a little bit of depth about skydiving, and then learn all of the facts - not layperson's guesses or presumptions or biases, but facts - about what occurred on this particular jump.

Finally, the simple fact is that skydiving is dangerous. While risks can be mitigated and managed, they simply cannot be eliminated entirely. Skydiving can never be made perfectly safe; the risk of a serious or fatal accident exists for every single skydiver on every single skydive. That is why people who are about to make a skydive sign a waiver indicating that they, as adults, realize this and are willfully assuming the risks inherent in skydiving when they make their jump. And that's why courts of law pretty much universally tend to uphold these waivers as legal and binding.

Again, we're very sorry for your loss.

[thrillstalker 0]

sorry for your loss.

skydiving is a dangerous sport, and each skydiver takes the leap on every skydive knowing death or serious injury is a possible outcome. we sign our life away literally.

"Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be."

[JohnRich 4]

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I just dont understand why any instructor would put their life let alone his students in someone elses hands by letting someone else pack their chute?

Federal law via the FAA requires that reserve parachutes be packed by a certified parachute rigger. Since most skydivers are not certified parachute riggers, that means that every time they jump, they're depending upon that reserve parachute, packed by someone else, to save them if their main parachute malfunctions.

[Sierrasmom22 0]

I will troll anywhere I desire! As for me bein Sierras mom I am and I know what day my baby died on.I also know when I got there that night I didnt even get one condolence or a sorry or nuthin the owner just shuffled his feet past me as I collapsed on the ground.Hope ur families dont ever have to go thru the pain I have endured.I have done research and I have met a few skydivers but I really dont think u know all the details ,have u seen the video have u talked to the experts?

[JohnDeere 0]

Sorry to question you but if you know the date then why are you 3 days off? Sorry we dont feed lawyers around here much! Dont you think the DZo had alot on his mind? Not to question how much Sierras mom had on hers but the DZO had just lost a TM and a very good chance that he lost a very good friend at the same time. He also lost a customer. Some people deal with things in diff ways, who are you to question the DZO's way of handling a very bad situation? If you want to learn about skydiving then goto a DZ. If your just trying to strengthen your case, then just start reading cause we are not going to help you. What happened to Sierra was an accident! Once again sorry to Sierras friends and family.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[JohnDeere 0]

Also you act as if you know all the details that none of us do. Then point them out and make me wrong!

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[Andy9o8 0]

Ma'am, I think JohnDeere reacted that way because it's not unusual for people to come on these boards after an accident claiming to be one person, but are really another person with a particular agenda beyond just a search for information. If that doesn't apply to you, then fine. But I think his suspicions were aroused because you did make a mistake about the date of the accident in your post: it really did occur on September 19, 2009, not September 22.

Several separate links on the following Google page do reflect this:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q=sierra+thomas+skydiving&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&num=100&lr=&as_filetype=&ft=i&as_sitesearch=&as_qdr=all&as_rights=&as_occt=any&cr=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&safe=images

The skydiving community is very sorry for the loss of Sierra and her instructor Dan. Both of them are a deep loss to all of us.

Maybe we should ALL just take a deep breath now, please?

[Sierrasmom22 0]

I see there was a typo error .,on the date.I am her mom and I just wanted to know why u dont pack ur own chutes? I'd wanna be safe than sorry.My son that was with her that night did go and jump afterwards for his sister and he liked it,but where he went seemed to make sure all the equipment and alot of things were handled differently even the weather.My daughter decided to go that day at the spur of the moment,the little daredevil she was.I have a copy of the video and I have watched it many times tryin to figure out what went wrong.Dan told her to arch her back again and seems to lower her down u can hear him tryin to do the cut away and velcro peeling then he hollers help and the video ends.My baby girl was pronounced dead at 7:30 pm.I thank you for ur condolences .

[suzyellow 0]

Upload the Video, let us watch it! It'll help us learn and be safer for ourselves and others.

Love Life

[billvon 2,380]

>and I just wanted to know why u dont pack ur own chutes?

Often we do. Sometimes we get other people to pack for us, depending on things like time, training schedule etc.

>I'd wanna be safe than sorry.

Most people do. Sometimes that involves letting someone experienced do things like packing a main parachute (or a reserve.)

[NovaTTT 1]

Condolences to the family of Ms. Thomas.

Not to feed a troll, if this is the case, but a bit of fact here won't hurt.

The main parachute of a dual-parachute system used for intentional jumping must be packed within 180 days prior to use by a certificated rigger, a person under the supervision of a rigger or the person intending to use the parachute system.

The reserve parachute of a dual-parachute system used for intentional jumping must be aired, inspected and packed within 180 days prior to use by a certificated and type rated FAA rigger.

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[skymama1 0]

Hello,

Unlike some, I will give you the benefit of the doubt in your identity and intent. in grief and in typing quickly, I can see how it would be easy for anyone, if she was 22 years old and you had just created the screen name "sierrasmom22" to type "22" instead of "19" as the date.

It seems that there was a thorough inspection of the gear and the situation by qualified professionals- if you have not already read the details in this post: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3678886 It may help you to understand- though some of the terms may be over your head (glossary may help too: http://www.dropzone.com/safety/resources/handbook/gloss2.shtml)

It seems clear that the instructor *did* pack his own parachute and did it right as far as we know- sometimes accidents happen. The reserve, or back-up parachute, is packed by someone with specialized training (a "rigger"), thus it would generally be less safe for someone without this training to pack a reserve him/herelf, and against regulations at that.

Now in this case it appears that the reserve WAS packed incorrectly, and the report states that the tandem instructor/TI, or aka Tandem Master/TM, DID cut-away the malfunctioned/spinning main parachute in a timely manner and instructed Sierra to arch while he performed EPs, but due to an error in the packing of the back-up aka reserve parachute system, was unable to adequately get the reserve open.

This is very rare but it does happen- I am so sorry for your loss, and I know that non-skydivers may have difficulty understanding some aspects of the sport- I just recently started my training and in choosing to skydive, one has to accept the inherent risks- but it is always hard for many of us to accept the death of a tandem student on their very first skydive- rare, and hard to accept, because at that point they are putting their faith in the safety record and competence of the instructor, and tandems are advertised as a safer way to go about a skydiving experience.

That said, any and all participants, as legal adults, sign a waiver and consent to risks, and in this case, the TI, while it does not sound like he made any errors, lost his life also. I am 22 almost 23, so I am around your daughter's age- it is far too young to lost your life, and no parent should have to bury their child :(

I am also so sorry to hear that the owner of the drop zone was not understanding or supportive of you in such a time of grief. That should really have been handled better though of course he was under stress.pressure, I do feel it was inconsiderate, though I do not know the person or the circumstances.

I wish you peace and healing- maybe reading up on these forums will help you gain a better understanding of some of these things, but really other than the details posted towards the end of the incident report linked, it sounds like you may already have this info on the accident itself, or more- I understand you want closure, and may just be seeking whys that may never fully be understood, as are so many things in life. I am so sorry, I cannot imagine the pain of losing a child (and as a mother myself, it goes both ways- the pain of losing my child, and the pain of a child losing his or her mother- it sounds like Sierra had a young child as well at the time of the accident. Are you raising her child/your grandchild? Or is his or her father? I hope you are able to spend time with your grandchild..)

Again, taking your post at face value, I am so sorry for your loss. Reading around these forums may give you some insight, but it sounds like seeing the video (and yes, this could be an instructional tool and helpful for riggers packing reserves and TI/TMs in terms of thinking through how to handle such a situation (as you will see some of this discussion on the incident report thread linked)- if it is too painful I also understand, but yes, I agree it could be helpful.

I believe that the TI/TMs I have met have all gone through vigorous training and while sometimes mistakes are made, skydiving has become remarkably safe compared to what it could be, and my experience has been that they take their responsibility for safety and the lives of their passengers/students very seriously. I know it is no condolence, but sometimes people take risks that another person might not deem acceptable; sometimes the odds, while statistically showing a tandem to be very safe intro to the sport, can still go wrong, and some people do have the midset of, it can't happen to me.

But, when an adult signs that waiver, they are accepting that there is a chance of injury or death. I have not yet known anyone who has been severely injured or died while skydiving, but have a friend severely impacted by a brain injury from a car accident, one died from cancer, and I have lost several friends to drug overdoses or suicides over the years. Again, I cannot imagine the pain of losing your daughter and am so sorry, but some things in this world are hard to understand, and sometimes it just doesn't make sense.. we never know when it is our time, so we have to make the most of it, and take what we deem to be acceptable risks with the information available to us.. I am so sorry that this decision to pursue a first tandem resulted in the death of both your child and her instructor. My heart goes out to you.

Again, to answer your main question, if one is not a certified rigger through USPA (there is actually great oversight and ratings and such through this centralized governing body for the sport in the US), it is much safer to have a rigger do the reserve re-packs than to do them yourself. But on the other hand, the report does mention a modification with velcro that was made, which was not an approved/safety-tested modification, and this should serve as a warning and learning tool- do NOT modify gear in ways which are not approved and tested! I don't know anything other than what is posted in the threads, but I do read incident reports because I think it is a way we can learn and I think awareness of the risks is important.

Hugs and may you find peace mama.
Robyn

Tandem 4/4. FJC and AFF-2 completed 4/9. Rescheduled AFF-3 and 4 due to winds for this next weekend.

"Be the change you wish to see in the world..."

[DigitalDave 0]

While I can't imagine the pain of losing a child this way, I think you should understand that skydivers are acutely aware of every significant skydiving accident. We share the sadness/hurt/anger/loss in our own ways.

I was just starting out in the sport when Sierra's accident happened. Even though I didn't know her or Dan, I remember it very well. I had just come from jumping that day when I read the incident report on this site. I spent the next couple days scouring the web for information about it. Being a newbie myself and having lived off SR88 in G-Ville for a few years, I felt somewhat attached.

Some people here get very defensive when non-jumpers post with what seems like the blame game. The common perception is that we're a lawsuit or two away from losing our freedom to skydive and we're being asked to help with the prosecution. While the sport is statistically pretty safe, most fatalities are due to human error.

This is a relatively small community. Know that here were thousands of people that grieved with you in Sept of 2009 and still do.

Blue skies Sierra and Dan.

[elightle 8]

Sierra's Mother:

Words cannott begin to describe the pain you are going through. I know because I lost my 13 year-old daughter 6 years ago. It looks like you stepped into a hornet's nest on this forum and I apologize for that. Skydivers tend to become very protective of their sport and their fellow skydivers. They become very close knit and think of the skydiving community as their family, sometimes forgetting that their are real lives and real families that are more important. Skymama1's reply was a good one and I would listen to her.

I do agree with some of the posters that sharing the video of that terrible jump might help us all learn how to be safer. But I don't agree with the way some posters practically demanded that you do so.

Losing a child is the worst pain on earth but it is manageable if you can focus on the wonderful memories and the joy that Sierra gave you during her 22 years with you. And, NO MATTER WHAT PEOPLE SAY, keep her memories alive. It's not like the old days where you put way all her photos and pretend like she never existed. My wife is writing a book about the 13 wonderful years we had with Shaina. She hopes it might help other mother's grieve; but, mostly, she wants the whole world to know what a wonderful person Shaina was. If some people think that's morbid, they don't have to read the book. But I am sure a lot of people will want to read how despite being harrassed and bullied in middle school, a gorgeous 13 year-old beauty was still able to march to the beat of her own drum and maintain a straight-A average. Shaina wanted more than anything to be a writer.

Sorry about the long post but I wanted you to know that as far as I can tell, I can come closer than anybody in this thread to understanding the pain you are going through.

God Bless,
Ed Lightle

[likestojump 3]

You are "unlike some" because you have not sifted through these, very similar in content threads that pop up every now and again.

Grieving parents should be comforted. But scumbag lawyers should be chased away with pitchforks.

Lastly, riggers are FAA rated. USPA is just a name, they have no legal authority.

[NovaTTT 1]

Quote

I just recently started my training

...and yet you say so much.

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[Sierrasmom22 0]

I just want everybody to be safe, my daughters death could of been prevented! I'm all for having fun and my son said his jump in memory of Sierra was awesome,but honestly I HOPE and pray he never does it again!You guys tell me what ur family would do in r situation.

[likestojump 3]

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I just want everybody to be safe, my daughters death could of been prevented! I'm all for having fun and my son said his jump in memory of Sierra was awesome,but honestly I HOPE and pray he never does it again!You guys tell me what ur family would do in r situation.

As unfortunately as it is, it has been pointed out that skydiving has inherent risks. So does bungy jumping, SCUBA diving, snorkeling, riding motorcycles, climbing, etc and many other activities that people choose to do to have fun.

The best way to prevent accidents/mishaps in those risky activities is to avoid participating. No one needs none of the above listed to survive.

What would my family do ? Bitch and whine and accept the fact that I was aware of the risk and entered the activity with eyes wide open.

[Amazon 7]

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I just want everybody to be safe, my daughters death could of been prevented! I'm all for having fun and my son said his jump in memory of Sierra was awesome,but honestly I HOPE and pray he never does it again!You guys tell me what ur family would do in r situation.

I have been scaring the hell out of my mother since I was little and took it to new levels in 1972 when I started jumping, but I think I have her convinced of my love for doing the things that make me happy in life. I have managed to survive 8 cutaways of main parachute canopies that were trying to kill me at the time.

There are other things I have done that I consider to be far more dangerous such as back country skiing. I have managed to survive being in 3 avalanche's with the last one coming VERY close to killing me. I have had a failure of a regulator while SCUBA diving that deprived me of air at 120' while in a position inside a wreck that I could not immediately return directly to the surface, that scared the crap out of me.

Life................... is dangerous and there is not a single one of us who is going to stay alive past our time. Some of us manage to survive to old age and some of us do not. Along the way I have lost many good friends to all kinds of accidents, suicides , drug overdoses, war and even a couple who were murdered.

My only hope in life is to live it to its fullest and arrive at the end of my life having actually experienced all that I could in that life, and for those around me to see that it has been a good life.

[skymama1 0]

Quote

Quote

I just recently started my training

...and yet you say so much.

Off topic much??

I have a right to share my thoughts (free speech anyone?) and I am not sorry if you don't like it, it's a free country.

Just because I am new to the sport does not mean that as a mother and human I cannot try to give some basic info to a mother who is grieving, or share info from what I have read and learned on these forums and from my instructors to spare her having to spend hours searching that info out.

This is the only forum I have ever been on where people flame away so openly and hatefully at times, but thank goddess for the kind, civil ones who more than balance it out.

More importantly, thank goodness for the kind, civil people at the DZ I have been training at and in my life and on other forums, who are willing to engage in discussions and not make smarmy digs at a poster for no reason and which are completely off topic.

Crazy indeed.
-----------------------------------------

ON TOPIC: If Sierra's mother is posting here, again, my heartfelt condolences to you. I cannot begin to imagine your pain and can understand your need to search for answers and closure. My heart is with you.
--------------------------------

Maybe I am naive, maybe not. But it does more harm to hurt someone posting honestly than to assume the best and console someone even if they are not.. what is wrong with this picture when we reverse it? And JohnDeere, I think your post was clear in pointing out that you acknowledged that it may or may not be legit and apologized for questioning her if she is who she says she is, I am not accusing you of being disrespectful. it just seems some posts on this thread and moreso on some others I have read lately jump to attack people or question motives without any level of restraint or kindness (which you did seem to display so again not blasting you! just makes me sad to see these threads especially since I have gotten similar PMs and replies when I first joined due to username issues- see below)

But yeah, in general-- Empathy? Compassion? (And again no digs intended at the skeptics in this post, or those who have posted similarly kind or neutral replies to OP, or not responded at all (always an option right!?) or at anyone really, but seriously, I am not the kind of person to tolerate smarmy ridiculous sh!t spewing at me which is completely off topic and offensive in a thread of this nature which is sensitive as is for all involved.

I felt that the questioning of her motives had been covered and wanted to make a post simply presuming she is who she claims to be and speaking from that perspective.

Your comment NovaTTT was totally NOT necessary and is offensive. The reason I clarify my own limits of experience and knowledge in such a post is so that OP/others reading are aware of where I am coming from (CONTEXT is essential) and can read the post as such.

And speaking to a non-skydiver or someone new to these forums I do often know more or have more info about the related issues than they would and there is nothing wrong with trying to share it or offer support to someone, even though of course I acknowledge many posters here have vastly greater knowledge and experience. It takes time to learn anything in life, sometimes people act as though it is not okay to be part of this online community unless you are a skygod with thousands of posts- well every one with a D license, thousands of posts, etc. at one point started with AFF, IAD, or static line, or tandem progression, and everyone started with 0 posts. There is, and should be, a mix.

I don't take well to such comments as the one above. I imagine a mother coming here to ask questions about her child's death wouldn't either, since it is totally irrelevant to her post and my reply. Even if this thread is not what it seems to be, your comment seems highly provocative, unnecessary, and downright rude.
----------------------

@likestojump--

Quote

You are "unlike some" because you have not sifted through these, very similar in content threads that pop up every now and again.

Grieving parents should be comforted. But scumbag lawyers should be chased away with pitchforks.

Lastly, riggers are FAA rated. USPA is just a name, they have no legal authority.

If indeed OP is a lawyer, you are right that it would not have been my first assumption, but online, YOU NEVER KNOW and you accept that, right?

That said, I really do not see how anything legal could come of this, there are far more details in the incident thread anyways and there was a thorough investigation and report given. OP's main question as I read it was how someone could allow someone to pack a parachute, since she obviously believed (correctly it seems) it was mis-packed (is that a word? ) (and, the underlying question- why and how could my daughter have died like this!?)

I told the OP in my post, which I understand is accurate, that it is likely safer to have trained riggers do the reserve packing than those with less experience (and sometimes people can choose to observe a reserve re-pack, I would think for myself at least I will be learning about my gear and observing, doing checks on my own to the extent I am able, etc. as this makes sense to me) but *nothing* is going to be 100% safe/error-proof as we are human.

Thanks for pointing out the AFF/USPA switch. USPA certifies tandem instructor ratings etc. and licenses and such/sets standards in the US. But FAA (federal government organization, Fed Aviation Administration I believe) certifies riggers who pack the reserves every 180 days. I believe that is how I should have explained it. Sorry for any confusion and thanks for clarifying that for me/OP/others!!

Quite possibly so, in that as you state, the reason I differ from some posters who think this post is fake is indeed that I have not had the time/experience on this board to see similar threads and outcomes. I am sure I could become more cynical with time if this really does happen often.. but I also think there are some cases where people need to put away the tin foil hats ;)

That said, I don't claim to understand the politics of this board or the sport in full or anywhere close to it, but I feel I can chime in to offer comfort- at the worst, I have done nothing harmful, at best maybe I have helped console a grieving parent.

I suppose if anything if they identify the rigger who mispacked the rig and conclude this was true beyond reasonable doubt that it was incorrectly packed, they could go after him or her (??) I don't know. BUT, I personally don't think so (in my limited knowledge- I just know from reading and discussing so far that it seems in this sport, the waivers signed legitimately are generally upheld in court, in my understanding), and yes we have to acknowledge the inherent risks of all aspects before making the choices we make, all of us.

I appreciate the reasonable/respectful tone of your post and information given, and again I am sure that I may become more jaded if this truly is a common and legit phenomenon. But I think a lawyer would also be smart enough to post using proper grammar/punctuation/date of death, etc. and ask more specific questions? They are paid BIG bucks for that kind of thing

The post, to me, had the tone of a grieving mother- but again, we all look through different lenses as we learn and grow in the present and based on our past experiences, genes, personalities.

I guess I just don't understand how any lawyer could get anything incriminating by posting here, or why they'd try, knowing that she signed a waiver, and that the TI did try EPs and died WITH her, another loss for another family sadly and the whole community-- but again, as you say, I may change that perspective and am happy to learn from those more experienced (when they are genuinely trying to help and/or educate)

Thank you again, and I do sincerely apologize if my comment of being "unlike some others" implied that I was superior to those who questioned the authenticity or have more experience on this forum and its uses/abuses- I just think that in general and online counts too, it is best to be wary of potential harm/offense when it is not needed, and that some posts could do more harm than good as stated.. even if there is only a one in a hundred chance this is legitimate (I have no clue)- if it is even remotely possible that it is, wouldn't one rather say nothing at all, respectfully ask a question to clarify motives, etc.? I just wanted to put a post out there taking it at face value and addressing the questions and emotions, since it seems that had not been done very much at the point I saw this thread.

I guess I just realize it is easy for people to make mistakes (riggers making a mistake packing, a grieving parent mistyping 22 instead of 19 after she just got done typing 22 a bunch of times in creating the account and the first sentence of her post, etc.)

I know myself, making the mistake of having read here a few months without posting or registering, I read posts but didn't really look at profiles or usernames, and registering found that my name was very similar to the moderators (skymama). My intro post explains this mistake when realized, but there were people who jumped on me, scolded me, assumed I was a troll via PM or the thread (I think one or two may have been deleted)- point is, I know how it feels to be attacked for a simple mistake, it's rather silly in my case and I am over that (I did contact sangiro about changing or deleting per suggestion/request but it has not been addressed or responded to so I assume the staff here has decided that it should stay, I could care less one way or the other what my username is here), but the point being, as a grieving parent, it could cut very deeply to be attacked or questioned harshly or judged to have bad motives without a chance to discuss it rationally within the community that surrounded your child at the time of her death and who you perceive may have answers or insight for you.

I guess I just try to err on the side of kindness and benefit of the doubt. But I can also see that if this kind of thing happens often and is truly a nuisance at best and a threat at worst, jumpers would be upset by it and want to reply in kind- it's just important to me not to make assumptions, but again maybe I am naive on this one, and I apologize if there was any sort of perceived or implied superiority in the tone of my post, I really just wanted to have some balance and some words of basic information and support to answer the OP's question, provide links to info, and most importantly, offer support to someone who may be grieving deeply.

--------------------------------
Finally, yes I am new to skydiving but feel I have already gleaned much wisdom from these boards and my wonderful instructors, but obviously have much much more to learn. However, most of my posts or opinions come from my LIFE experience alongside my limited skydiving experience, nothing exists in a vacuum- I have lost loved ones to death, and have been in the case of wondering if my best friend (and my son's aunt) was going to survive a coma and brain injury after a horrible car accident, sitting by the hospital bedside day after day until she finally woke, relearned to walk and talk and eat and drink, etc. I have given birth naturally and parented a child as a single mother. I have overcome severe addiction/dependency issues in my past as well as several medical problems. I have had a lot of learning and growing in my near 23 years, and that is a lifelong process, but I simply don't appreciate being discounted simply because of jump numbers or post numbers or age or stage of skydiving training or whatever else.

I am a parent and know what it is like to love a child as a mother, and this post was relevant to me. I have had the experience of skydiving, though obviously much less than many here- you have to start somewhere right?

Sometimes it seems that newer posters are not welcomed here by some (a small but often vocal and crude minority?), though I do feel the majority are kind and helpful and I am forever grateful for those who have helped me online and IRL to get off the ground so to speak in my goal of attaining my AFP and A license thus far, and look forward to talking and learning and meeting more friends and mentors.

People can read my posts, ignore my posts, evaluate them based on my profile, history, jump numbers, post numbers, *content* (preferably take this into account, obviously?) whatever they like- but I am in AFF and am pursuing very seriously the goal of achieving my licensing this season, so I guess I don't understand why, speaking (theoretically I guess) to a parent who has never skydived but lost someone in the sport, as someone who clearly has more info on certain aspects of the sport than she does and spent time reading all the available info on the incident, cannot share the basic info that I know or offer words of comfort- and by all means, if I say something inaccurate correct me- I want to learn or I wouldn't be here.

I read far more than I post, so yes my post numbers may not be huge, but I also just joined recently after reading/not registering for a few months. A potential grieving mother and a tandem fatality are issues that I wanted to comment on, and provide some balance to the thread as well- the great thing about online forums is that you have people all across the spectrum in abilities, ages, locations, knowledge, perspectives, and experiences. There is nothing wrong with multiple perspectives or types of replies; that is the POINT :)

I also think there is nothing wrong with questioning things and not always taking everything online at face value, but if you are not sure (and online, you are not often certain beyond reasonable doubt in most cases) it's best IMHO to be tactful when possible to avoid harm (not directed at you, but I have seen some posts here/elsewhere that have a very rude tone when it seems unnecessary and it does bother me- why be rude or condescending when you can be neutral or kind?)

So, take it or leave it guys, but I've a right to post it, and I do appreciate feedback that is reasonable and civil.

And really, you won't see me giving advice or feedback to experienced licensed skydivers on things beyond my knowledge or scope of experience, but I feel I have a right to weigh in when I choose to do so, while clearly letting people know where I am coming from so they can weigh what I have to say and where I am coming from if relevant..

Especially when talking to others who are around my level (AFF students, first time jumpers/tandems, non-skydivers or family members of a skydiver) then yes, I do probably have a bit more info and experience and don't see why I should not share that when I feel appropriate.

This is an odd place indeed.. guess I just need to let people sort their own ridiculousness and engage with those who actually want to discuss things like civil human beings. I'm over it.

Tandem 4/4. FJC and AFF-2 completed 4/9. Rescheduled AFF-3 and 4 due to winds for this next weekend.

"Be the change you wish to see in the world..."

[NovaTTT 1]

Holy fuck. Write much? Man, if you jabber like you post, I'd hate to be in a life raft with you!

If your epic posts are designed to prevent people from responding to you, it's going to work.

If your ridiculously long-winded ramblings are designed to prevent people from reading the same, it is working.

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[likestojump 3]

loooooooooong post.

once again, USPA ain't shit. They have no legal authority. The tandem ratings are given by the manufacturer. USPA does in fact have a Tandem Instuctor rating, but one can just as easily go to a non-USPA DZ and do tandem as long as they are rated on the equipment.

What was pointed out to you is that you wrote a long post, but yet had given some incorrect info.

Lastly, part of an attorney's job is research. Lots and lots of research. DZ.com is not necessarily a valid source, but as we are all skydivers, we are very likely to have better knowledge of all the tricks of skydiving, and perhaps some insider info. Such information is much harder to obtain for an outsider with no subject matter knowledge. If you have a friend with Lexis-Nexis/Westlaw access have them run a search for skydiving and you will be surprised at how few results pop up.

So yeah, I do think the OP is not who they say they are and is fishing.