Prodigus 0 #1 April 24, 2010 I'm going to be downsizing from a 300 to a 280 which will take me from a wingloading of .82 to a .88 The question that I have (and yes, I'm aware that my instructor will let me know all about this and that's who I am ultimately going to listen to) is how will downsizing affect lift when I flare? Just curious as to what to expect is all. /duck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cocheese 0 #2 April 24, 2010 With a parachute that big, you might not notice any changes at all. It's sort of like the difference between a 300 foot boat vs a 280 foot boat. The parachute may fly different as no two are alike. Learning when and how fast to flare is something you have to learn on your own. I used to wait until my feet were 10 feet high then stab it. Just make sure you finish the flare before you hit the ground. This tip might help: Take some of the slack out of the lines before you flare. Then tap your feet together (this sends a signal to the brain that you have landing gear to use and protect)....get ready and flare all the way.. in one smooth fluid motion. Flare speed can vary with head winds etc. Practice up high and feel what is going on up there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cocheese 0 #4 April 24, 2010 My pleasure. It's hard to teach the flare. Ask or pay someone to video your landings. Video is a great learning tool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #5 April 25, 2010 Quote I'm going to be downsizing from a 300 to a 280 which will take me from a wingloading of .82 to a .88 Holy crap. Bounce bingo anyone? (Mandatory: ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris-Ottawa 0 #6 April 25, 2010 You know...I realize you're joking, but... Everyone on here gets pissed when people downsize too quickly, then we see posts like yours making a joke of his perfectly reasonble downsize...Would it be better if he went to a 150? Can anyone make the right decision as per the skygod's rules?"When once you have tasted flight..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #7 April 25, 2010 Don't overreact. It was humor to an opportune straight line, nothing more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blamey 0 #8 April 25, 2010 Make sure you are adding the weight of your gear to your wing loading calc. Gear should weight around 30 pounds. If your wing-loading calc is correct, you are about 250 out the door and somewhere around 220 without gear on. I was about that weight when I started and started on a 240 Navigator and would switch between that and a 260 depending on what was not being used at the DZ. there wasn't a big difference between the two. At our size canopies under a wing loading of 1 are pretty docile so the downsizing can be a bit more aggressive than for a lighter jumper. Your instructor will be best to advise on what you should be jumping but don't be surprised if you are downsizing faster than other (lighter) students. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #9 April 25, 2010 The change in flare will be affected more by what KIND of canopies your changing from and to. If your going from a 0-3 cfm (non-zp) 300 sq. ft. canopy to a 280 of similar design and fabric not much reason to, not much difference. If your jumping a 300 sq.ft. non-zp 9 cell and are going to a zp canopy of newer design you may very well be able to make a bigger jump. (Did I just say that?!) I was very experience but after a bad injury I had a 288 Manta (non-zp) and a 190 Sabre (zp higher performance design and airfoil). When I wanted a guarenteed soft landing I grabbed the 190. Look at the articles on PD's website. Why are you down sizing? To go faster or to manuver faster? Go faster change size. Manuver faster change design. All that being said the slower you downsize and the more experience you have the less risk of dangerous control error. (Still can't believe I wrote this post, but few people are worried when going from 300 to 280.) I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #10 April 25, 2010 its nice to see someone taking a small step on the path to downsizing, large canopys can teach you a hell of a lot about control - most people skip steps in their quest to be cool but end up fighting to have good landings or to land where they want everytime later on... you may notice slightly faster turn speed, less toggle pressure, more altitude loss on those turns, more drive in winds, but I doubt it will be a drastic change - you didnt say whether its also a different type of canopy *ie semi eliptical/tapered/eliptical that you are going to - these changes from a square would produce a much more drastic change than the square footage would suggest. have fun with it, and for what its worth - nice landings with a bigger chute are more impressive than shitty ones under a small one... I am a canopy nazi and admit it, I dont ever want to see or hear another person hit the ground at the same time as their parachute does simply because they had to be cool and managed to get the instructors/s&ta to give the ok... Roy PS: check out billvons checklist, doing everything on it is a great idea prior to downsizing, I did everything on it with my current canopy but am UPsizing :-D *(getting old is awesome) ---not!!! :-PThey say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thrillstalker 0 #12 April 25, 2010 i recently downsized to a 230 from a 260. the biggest difference for me was a few mph faster. practice flares up high will help you greatly. you really wont experience much difference except the differences in the canopies."Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Prodigus 0 #13 April 26, 2010 2 Jumps today on the 280. A lot more canopy work today than the previous since I'm to the point of training on using the rear risers etc now. Barrel rolls and front/back flips were the exciting part of the day. Awesome day! You all were correct that there wasn't a huge difference in the canopies although I did feel like I descended a little faster with the 280. That could have been other factors though I guess. I liked it better and didn't feel like I was just hanging up there forever. Thanks for all your comments. I appreciate all information and expect to be on the receiving end of a few jokes/barbs right now being a noob. It's all good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #14 April 26, 2010 Quote Quote I'm going to be downsizing from a 300 to a 280 which will take me from a wingloading of .82 to a .88 Holy crap. Bounce bingo anyone? (Mandatory: ) Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #15 April 26, 2010 Quote You know...I realize you're joking, but... Everyone on here gets pissed when people downsize too quickly, then we see posts like yours making a joke of his perfectly reasonble downsize...Would it be better if he went to a 150? Can anyone make the right decision as per the skygod's rules? Get over yourself man!Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #16 April 26, 2010 Quote Quote You know...I realize you're joking, but... Everyone on here gets pissed when people downsize too quickly, then we see posts like yours making a joke of his perfectly reasonble downsize...Would it be better if he went to a 150? Can anyone make the right decision as per the skygod's rules? Get over yourself man! some others could use that advice too, dont they!? “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DigitalDave 0 #17 April 26, 2010 I just started jumping a new Storm 230 after using older Navigator 240/260 student rigs since my first jump. I'm about 200 naked. I noticed a huge difference in speed, controlability and flare power. It's much more responsive to input and seems to have a stronger flare from full flight. There's a much different feel to it then when I went down from the Nav 260 to the Nav 240. I didn't expect such a radical change by going down just 10 square ft. But, I think the combination of canopy design and newness makes for the drastic difference. And before the wingload nazis attack ..yes, my Aff instructor recommended that canopy size for me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thrillstalker 0 #18 April 26, 2010 i think the change had more to do with the cut of the canopy, not necessarily the size. i could be wrong though, i dont know shit yet."Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrbiceps 0 #19 April 29, 2010 If i could offer any advice with downsizing then what i struggled with was flaring. I was flaring too late and landing hard because i wasnt finishing off my flare. This was due to the extra speed i was moving and that i was starting my flare too late and therefore i didnt have enough height to finish it off. I doubt that you will notice any difference going from a 300 to a 280. cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
