beginners morbid curiosity - main chute malfunction

[alp27 0]

Hey all,

I will be starting my aff course this summer after an awesome tandem skydive a few weeks ago. I'm hooked and have not stopped thinking "skydivng" since the jump. I like to be well informed and as such have been reading up, watching youtube videos, etc to try and prepare myself for the upcoming course. I cant wait to be under the canopy after my first aff jump - I found the canopy ride to be the most peaceful place on (or above) earth...

I was curious to know how common main chute malfunction is. Be it a tangled line, complete failure to leave the container, etc. Can these malfunctions usually be resolved without the need to cutaway and deploy the reserve, and how many of you guys have had to deploy your reserve.

Please accept my apologies for this slightly morbid topic but I was curious to know...

Thanks

alp27

Everyone dies.... not everyone lives!!

[jakee 1,254]

The normal definition of a malfunction is something that does require you to cut away the main canopy. Generally quoted numbers are something like 1 in 750 to 1000 on average for a full on malfunction.

Other small, fixable nuisances are much more common, expecially when you're a student, but you will be taught about them and what to do to fix them before you get anywhere near the aeroplane.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[alp27 0]

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The normal definition of a malfunction is something that does require you to cut away the main canopy. Generally quoted numbers are something like 1 in 750 to 1000 on average for a full on malfunction.

Other small, fixable nuisances are much more common, expecially when you're a student, but you will be taught about them and what to do to fix them before you get anywhere near the aeroplane.

hi jake, thanks for the reply. I beleive most of these will be covered during ground school on day one of the course.

Everyone dies.... not everyone lives!!

[azureriders 0]

exactly 1 out of 602 as determined by DZ.com

Welcome to the sport and this is not a morbid question at all.

[alp27 0]

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exactly 1 out of 602 as determined by DZ.com

Welcome to the sport and this is not a morbid question at all.

Thanks for the info mate.

Even if it was 1 in 250 it still wouldnt stop me going up and jumping out, although I always have a health respect for preparation of equipment, ect. As im constantly reminded its not just my life on the line up there.

I loved it and cant wait to have more than 1 on my number of jumps... roll on the summer!!

Everyone dies.... not everyone lives!!

[BillyVance 34]

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exactly 1 out of 602 as determined by DZ.com

Welcome to the sport and this is not a morbid question at all.

Thanks for the info mate.

Even if it was 1 in 250 it still wouldnt stop me going up and jumping out, although I always have a health respect for preparation of equipment, ect. As im constantly reminded its not just my life on the line up there.

I loved it and cant wait to have more than 1 on my number of jumps... roll on the summer!!

I have friends who had a malfunction and cutaway on their very first jump, and friends who have never had one in 3 or 4 thousand jumps. I've only had one malfunction caused by an unclean deployment (tension knot with linetwists), but I do have 3 total cutaways.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[jsaxton 0]

there are two kinds of skydivers, those that have had a reserve ride and those that will.

[virgin-burner 1]

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there are two kinds of skydivers, those that have had a reserve ride and those that will.

^^nice one!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[robinheid 0]

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exactly 1 out of 602 as determined by DZ.com

Welcome to the sport and this is not a morbid question at all.

Keep in mind that this number is skewed by the higher rate of malfunctions on high-performance canopies.

As another poster said, there are people with thousands of jumps and not one total or partial malfunction.

And being one of those guys who flew Para-Commanders in the early days when you had to have at least 100 jumps before you could even jump a square, it was an amazing thing to see how malfunctions dropped precipitously after everyone started jumping squares. I remember when weeks and even months would go by without a single malfunction at the DZ.

And I remember when that trend reversed as first high-aspect ratio canopies (long span, narrow "chord") - then teeny-tiny high-aspect ratio canopies started appearing.

So your chances of having a malfunction on the bigger, lower-aspect-ratio canopies you'll be jumping as a student and low-timer will be much less than the 1-in-602 figure... unless of course you flail a lot on opening, because a major factor in partial malfunctions is an asymmetrical and/or unstable body position at pull time. Then all bets (statistics) are off.

SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.)

"The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

[jumpinguy 0]

I was thinking the number was skewed as well for two reasons. The number of cutaways from high performance canopies loaded up over 2.0 is greater. I know this from experience. Then there is the young jumper that cuts away anything that looks funny. IE chop a stable line twist at 3,000 feet or because the slider did not come all the way down.

I suspect the cutaway numbers by jump experience may show a reverse bell curve. Just my opinion.

[alp27 0]

Hey guys, just wanted to say thanks for all the info, as a beginner starting aff soon it's nice to get the benefit of advice from people with 100's of jump under their belts... Appreciate it!!

Everyone dies.... not everyone lives!!

[robinheid 0]

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I was thinking the number was skewed as well for two reasons. The number of cutaways from high performance canopies loaded up over 2.0 is greater. I know this from experience. Then there is the young jumper that cuts away anything that looks funny. IE chop a stable line twist at 3,000 feet or because the slider did not come all the way down.

I suspect the cutaway numbers by jump experience may show a reverse bell curve. Just my opinion.

+1

I watched one of those too. lady with 300 jumps opened at 3K in a spin (blown toggle from what i could see) but instead of taking even two seconds to assess, she just chopped it after two revolutions -- and then her still fully inflated canopy rotated slowly all the way to the ground.

and i have a photo of a completely open T-10 canopy (had cross connectors) landing in the pea gravel in Colorado after a student cut it away for no reason (Tim Monsees got mucho props for spotting THAT one).



p.s. OP, you're welcome. Glad we could help. Enjoy your jumping!

SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.)

"The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

[jtval 0]

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exactly 1 out of 602 as determined by DZ.com

Welcome to the sport and this is not a morbid question at all.

ALP27,
This poll is skewed because:
-not all skydivers are members of dz.com.
-not all members of dz.com answered that poll.

This is a sampling that represents what it represents.
1:602 is not a hard fast number.

as others said:
we all know jumpers who have mulitple cutaway-type malfunctions and some who have none.

Good for you for doing research and asking questions. Use this sight for its intended purpose(education diffusion of knowledge) and you'll get a hea start.
HOWEVER, DO NOT take the things you read in these forums as truth until you speak to someone who can verify.
There's a lot of noise in the foreground to sift through.


I also agree with Azureriders. It is not a morbid question. You are about to enter a sport that can kill you. If you have a question, ask it.

My photos

My Videos

[alp27 0]

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Good for you for doing research and asking questions. Use this sight for its intended purpose(education diffusion of knowledge) and you'll get a hea start.
HOWEVER, DO NOT take the things you read in these forums as truth until you speak to someone who can verify.
There's a lot of noise in the foreground to sift through.


I also agree with Azureriders. It is not a morbid question. You are about to enter a sport that can kill you. If you have a question, ask it.

Hey thanks man, I always take what i read, replies I get, etc and use it to better me as I progress into AFF. However i'm not naive enough to assume everything is gospel.

Do people actually cutaway for fun at times. I read a lot in the main post that people "experimented" lots as they were learning. Surely cutting away for fun is not advised, or maybe i'm misreading the use of the word "experiment"!!

Everyone dies.... not everyone lives!!

[timmyfitz 0]

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and then her still fully inflated canopy rotated slowly all the way to the ground.

Canopy's don't stay fully inflated after they are cut away. Nice try though.

[scholarkyle 0]

Welcome to the sport! At least in the U.S., you're supposed to always jump with one more canopy than you intend to use. There are rigs out there designed for 3 'chutes that folks will use when doing that kind of thing for any number of reasons--fun, testing new canopies, etc...

Had my first (and only--so far) cutaway real early--jump 52 on a pretty big and tame canopy. Never know when Murphy will get a hold of you. And not a morbid question either. Personally I get a kick out of watching cutaway vids on Youtube...

[broncoty 0]

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Personally I get a kick out of watching cutaway vids on Youtube...

As do I. Generally when I am supposed to be doing something productive.

“The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires."-William Arthur Ward

[robinheid 0]

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and then her still fully inflated canopy rotated slowly all the way to the ground.

Canopy's don't stay fully inflated after they are cut away. Nice try though.

As long as we're nitpicking... nice try on proper spelling and punctuation. I fixed it for you:

Canopies don't stay fully inflated after they are cut away; nice try, though.

I also notice you didn't excerpt the T-10 comment; are you going to gainsay that one too - or just the one for which I don't have a photo?

SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.)

"The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

[timmyfitz 0]

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and then her still fully inflated canopy rotated slowly all the way to the ground.

Canopy's don't stay fully inflated after they are cut away. Nice try though.

As long as we're nitpicking... nice try on proper spelling and punctuation. I fixed it for you:

Canopies don't stay fully inflated after they are cut away; nice try, though.

I also notice you didn't excerpt the T-10 comment; are you going to gainsay that one too - or just the one for which I don't have a photo?

Canopy's don't stay fully inflated after they are cut away. Nice try though.

[FreeFlyer2100 0]

Hey Billy are those other 2 cutaways from wrapping someone doing CRW? I had my first cutaway on jump 300 and it was wrapping someone doing a CRW jump. Always funny to say that the first cutaway is out of the way but it was not due to an opening malfunction. Guess I still have that to look forward to.

[dks13827 2]

cutaway for fun ? well, not many do that. I would not suggest that unless you are experienced and have the proper 3 chute setup. I practiced so many times in my mind that when I had to, hey, it was a no brainer, so to speak.

[jtval 0]

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Hey thanks man, I always take what i read, replies I get, etc and use it to better me as I progress into AFF. However i'm not naive enough to assume everything is gospel.

Do people actually cutaway for fun at times. I read a lot in the main post that people "experimented" lots as they were learning. Surely cutting away for fun is not advised, or maybe i'm misreading the use of the word "experiment"!!

Glad to hear it.
As many said already tertiary (mean third)rigs use three canopy's.
cutting away for fun can be done safely.
I'm sure you'll hear about some less than brilliant people who cutaway when their reserve is due for repack. That is generally, a stupid idea.
I have a motto. I don't ever want to use my reserve, but I won't hesitate if I need to.

Now, If I had a tertiary rig I would cutaway one canopy without being too worried about it as I would still have a back up to the canopy I intent to land.

My photos

My Videos

[azureriders 0]

I said earlier that this was not a morbid question. I think you are already getting my drift, but I thought I would clarify a bit anyway. There is two points to my meaning.

First, as Jtval said:
"I also agree with Azureriders. It is not a morbid question. You are about to enter a sport that can kill you. If you have a question, ask it. "

I could not agree more, especially with the first sentence. Point is, no matter how morbid, if it is you life and you think it needs answering, then ask.

The second point and what is often missed by new comers to this sport, is that a cut away is not normally an epic occurrence like some might would think. They happen; they are a real part of our sport. Most end on a positive note. So, just because you are talking about a cut away does not likely mean you are talking about a fatality. Therefore I would not categorize anything about a cutaway as morbid.

I remember when we had a local buy the food concession stand at the DZ. The first couple months they were there, no cutaways. Then when a cutaway did take place, the new cook slipped over to me, and quietly ask what happened, what went wrong, who screwed up, who is in trouble......my reaction of "calm down, it’s just a cutaway" blew his mind.

I have seen nearly a whole season go by with out a cutaway on the DZ. I have also seen several in one day, two from the same four way formation, and I even had two in one day on two different DZs. It happens, not morbid at all

Sorry for the drift, back to the main point.

[alp27 0]

Thanks for that and I'm glad my question is not as morbid as I first feared. I think as someone about to start the sport the thought of a failure that requires a cutaway is the end of the world. I'm seeing now that althought not pleasent, it is something that will most likely happen to everyone at somepoint. As long as you are prepared and have good equipment then the risks related are lessen to an extent.
Thanks again

Everyone dies.... not everyone lives!!

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Nothing morbid about wanting to know more about what can go wrong. The consequences are drastic enough that you should know enough to make an educated decision.

Knowledge about your gear is important.

I know you haven't started yet, but when you do, ask your instructor to introduce you to the DZ rigger. Ask the rigger to let you watch a reserve repack.

Seeing how the reserve differs from the main, and seeing how it is set up and packed will help.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo