And you thought intercepts in the US were hairy?

[dninness 4]

Just got these from a friend in the USAF, not sure where he got them. I haven't seen them here on DZ.com, but judging by the file information, they're from 4/27, and according to him the F-16s are from the Royal Netherlands Air Force..

Anybody shed any light on these? I did a cursory forum search and didn't turn up any F-16 hits from the last 3 weeks. :)

(I resized the 1st one to get it under 300k)

That must be one hell of a buzz job.

NIN
D-19617, AFF-I '19

[wildcard451 0]

Other than the gut reaction that those have to be photoshopped.....

What is the minimum control speed on of of those jets?

[dninness 4]

Off the top of my head, I don't recall the minimum airspeed of an F-16, but consider that -16s intercept GA aircraft in the US all the time, and especially bug-smashers like 182, its not out of the realm of possibility that an F-16 could fly up alongside a Caravan or LET410 like that or at least do slow-flight past one.

The canopy shot was originally 3000pixels wide, and while it seems to have been manipulated in Photoshop Elements, I think thats just for clean up/resizing. It could be photoshopped, but I don't believe so.

I resized that one in Photoshop just to post it.

NIN
D-19617, AFF-I '19

[Hellis 0]

I can honestly say i have never been that close to a jet in air.
But, jetengines produce lots of heat. That heat makes the air 'wobble'.
Even if the hot air is spread quickly i think you should be able to see it on the second picture.
The picture is taken so close to the jet, and the background is still intact.

Is that three jets on the second picture?
One that just passed, one thats in the middle of the frame, and on that you see the left wing of?
If you see the left wing, in that angle, the plane is about to hit you?

Airplane is passing you at high speed a few feet away, your instinct is to point finger at it???
If his finger would follow the jet you should see some "motion" on his arm.
I dont belive you can move your arm that quick to "follow" the jet either.


I think its fake, its more likely that the guy was pointing at something else and someone thought it was funny to photoshop jets in to the image.

[dragon2 0]

Not photoshopped, that's part of a military excersize held at Texel here. They needed a "slow mover" (less than 150 knots) and DZ Texel volunteerd their Caravan and of course the skydivers in that plane shot photos
click

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Hellis 0]

So what did the pilots learn?
That they are quicker than a canopy?

Do you know what the point was of this excersize?

[dragon2 0]

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They needed a "slow mover" (less than 150 knots) and DZ Texel volunteerd their Caravan

They are practising intercepting slow movers, thought that was clear...

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[LongWayToFall 0]

Sweet pictures!!!!!!! Thanks for posting!

[piisfish 135]

reminds me Bruno Brokken's pics with Yves Mirage III.

Thanks to the pilots, skydivers and photographers who bring us such incredible images and stories. One day they will be posted in the "Scary Stories from the Old Days" thread

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[jakee 1,254]

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I can honestly say i have never been that close to a jet in air.

So you don't know what it would look like.

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But, jetengines produce lots of heat. That heat makes the air 'wobble'.
Even if the hot air is spread quickly i think you should be able to see it on the second picture.
The picture is taken so close to the jet, and the background is still intact.

The exhaust on any turbine jump plane will produce a heat haze when it's stationary on the ground - what do they look like in the air?

Quote

Is that three jets on the second picture?
One that just passed, one thats in the middle of the frame, and on that you see the left wing of?
If you see the left wing, in that angle, the plane is about to hit you?

What are you talking about? You do realise that the wing and tailplane of the Caravan are what you can see framing the F16, yes?

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Airplane is passing you at high speed a few feet away, your instinct is to point finger at it???
If his finger would follow the jet you should see some "motion" on his arm.
I dont belive you can move your arm that quick to "follow" the jet either.

You're making an unwarranted assumption about the relative speeds of the aircraft, and then making further assumptions based on that.

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I think its fake,

Are you the person that calls fake on every YouTube video ever posted?


Seriously though - sweet shots, must have been awesome up close!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[piisfish 135]

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Seriously though - sweet shots, must have been awesome up close!

these too www.brunobrokken.com/?content%2F00001+Skydiving%2F0000+from+the+book+Exit%2F (check the pictures around number 120, my lousy computer at work can't open them)

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[wildcard451 0]

Quote

Not photoshopped, that's part of a military excersize held at Texel here. They needed a "slow mover" (less than 150 knots) and DZ Texel volunteerd their Caravan and of course the skydivers in that plane shot photos
click

In that case...

Fucking awesome.

[dninness 4]

Quote

Not photoshopped, that's part of a military excersize held at Texel here. They needed a "slow mover" (less than 150 knots) and DZ Texel volunteerd their Caravan and of course the skydivers in that plane shot photos
click

Y'know, if there had been more freeflyers on board, there would be more video :)

NIN
D-19617, AFF-I '19

[jumpwally 0]

More importantly,,,what did you learrn ?
Mr. Know it all....ha ha...it never surprises me,,,if i posted a picture of a tomato, someone would be crying photoshop,,,

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[piisfish 135]

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if i posted a picture of a tomato, someone would be crying photoshop,,,

IT'S A FAKE

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[alp27 0]

Quote

Quote

if i posted a picture of a tomato, someone would be crying photoshop,,,

IT'S A FAKE

LMAO - you beat me to it... it was on the tip of my typing hand...

Everyone dies.... not everyone lives!!

[cocheese 0]

Even an L-39 can fly with a climbing Skyvan at WFFC. I'm just sayin.

[Hellis 0]

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The exhaust on any turbine jump plane will produce a heat haze when it's stationary on the ground - what do they look like in the air?

Like this:
http://www.free-internet-browsers.com/photo-x-photo/wallpapers/aircraft/image/boeing_business_jet.jpg
http://www.topnews.in/files/Jet-Fighter.jpg
http://www.pogo-game.org/free-images/wallpapers/aircraft/image/airbus_a340_jumbo_jet.jpg
http://airlinersgallery.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/jet-airways-777-300er-n834ba-vt-jel07tko-pae-ndlr.jpg
But maybe the haze is all fake on these pictures?
Because as i said, i have never seen it myself. Only on pictures like the above, where this haze is very clear.

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What are you talking about? You do realise that the wing and tailplane of the Caravan are what you can see framing the F16, yes?

No i didn see that, thought i was a picture from under canopy.

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Are you the person that calls fake on every YouTube video ever posted?

And your the asshole nobody likes.
Now we know who is who

[billvon 2,384]

Your one warning. Cut it out.

[mdrejhon 8]

Billy you just deleted a post I was replying to (a post after the "Your one warning" post) and I lost an interesting reply. Rewriting...

The nutshell of the photo analysis of the jumpdoor photo is that:
- The shadows appear correct for the direct sun illuminated objects, see the Caravan tail, and arm/altimeter versus F16. Shadow blur, direction, intensity, contrast etc.
- The barrell distortion is correct, even compensating for the parallax of nearby versus faraway objects.
- There appears to some minor engine hazing behind the jet if you look really, really, carefully. It's hard to tell due to 'smog haze' in the distance and the low resolution of a non-motion photo, which is totally understandable. Video would show the turbulence better.
- An F16 throttled WAY DOWN for a slowspeed intercet, does not emit much hazing, blurring or visible turbulence behind the air. If you looked out of the window of a passenger jet airplane, you will understand what I mean -- F16 at that slow speed emit less hazing than a passenger airplane's jet engine if you're sitting a window seat behind the wing.
- The AOA of the F16 is correct for a typical slowspeed intercept. Try a reputable flight simulator, and playback the simulator video, you'll see slowspeed intercepts by highspeed-optimized aircraft involve a lot of nose-high attitudes.
- The info is posted on a reputable Netherlands military site.
- There are no photoshop style artifacts or clone-brush artifacts other than what seem to be normal JPEG-resizing artifacts

Verdict: Real photo.

Even if the jump plane was flying a little slower such as 100 knots for open jump door operations, the fighter jet would have still been able to coast past at 'pokey car driving speed'. Long enough for clear photography and fun finger pointing. Jump pilots also typically have formation flight training, from big way operations, and knew proper procedures for flyby's. Or the jet may have hovered motionless for many seconds; the flight envelopes of F16 and Caravan overlap sufficiently enough to make that possible, especially in a throttled-up slight desceding flight path of the Caravan, by a well-big-way trained Caravan pilot, though risky with the jump door open.

Another point of interest: If you fly a modern, new radio control airplane with a better than 1:1 thrust:weight ratio, you can actually fly them ultra slowly or helicoptor them motionless above the ground (see YouTube videos), slowly transitioning in and out of flight. F16's also have a better than 1:1 thrust:weight ratio too. In theory, if the F16 had a precision computer-operated throttle that balanced perfectly while having a very high AOA, with zero variaces (zero micro sputters), then in theory F16 can fly slower than a Caravan's stall speed, and helicoptor itself above ground while pointing upwards vertically like a rocket, balancing thrust against gravity. But that's unlikely, as far as I know, F16 throttles and control surfaces are not that precise/highspeed adjustable enough to do that safely. If it were, then F16 would have a flight envelope that extends all the way to 0mph both horizontally and verticaly. Beyond wing stall speed, you now have to use increasing amounts of thrust the slower you fly, because you are now using thrust to compensate for gravity. Since this is mainly done with smaller planes like stunt airplanes (with high precision control/throttles) and radio control aiplanes, rather than big ones like F16, this is all very theoretical though. Depending on the capabilities of your airplane, this is important for slow speed intercepts, because you're now using a small portion of the thrust to help you stay aloft, if you're flying slower than stall speed and now using thrust to compensate for gravity. An appropriately capable recreational stunt airplane (red bull style thing) with a good pilot, can fly his/her airplane motionless like a helicoptor, with its propeller pointing upwards. Superimpositions of this and slow flight, allow horizontal forward flight at any speed 0mph all the way up to stall speed of the wings. You need more than 1:1 thrust:weight power capabilities of your engine, for this to be possible. Flight examples of such exist on YouTube. Some fighter jet crash landings were survivable because he successfully kept the airplane aloft on thrust below stall speed - pointing something like 45 degrees to the sky at high thrust ratios, well below the wing's stall speed. Enough time to eject-seat before crashing. And sometimes, you've seen those "close call" flight videos of a fighter jet going far below stall speed near the ground, before successfully lifting off, just becase these babies can do better than 1:1 thrust:weight, and very fast throttle response, to lift off vertically on a moment's notice, if needed. That's the same principle I'm talking about. Of course, if the engine sputters or die, boom, instant rock.

Here's an YouTube video of an F22 flying horizontally slower than the stall speed of a Caravan using the principles I just described. As you can see, F22 has enough precision manouverability to fly horizontal flight below a Caravan's stall speed. Even the photogaphy suggests at least 5% of the thrust is being used to couteract gravity. (There's enough capability in an F16 to do that, just too difficult to transition to precision rocket-style hover flight like an F22 can.)

Disclaimer: I've only flown radio control, and flight simulators, as well as witnessed actual piloted airplanes flying below stall speed without losing vertical altitude. (which means, it CAN be done, and I know at least a bit what I'm talking about). It only needs high school physics to understand what I am talking about -- if you at least got an A or B grade.

[JumpHog 0]

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Verdict: Real photo.

I'd second that. Very cool photo by the way! Coincidentally, I've been the subject of two slow-speed intercepts in the past month. A few weeks ago, I was intercepted by Spanish Mirage fighters while flying a Diamond DA-40 at about 115 knots IAS off the coast of Majorca. The jets were probably doing about 15 knots faster than me, but it was quite easy to follow them with the video camera and fly the airplane (that one was coordinated over the radio ahead of time).

Then again, a few days ago, I was intercepted by an F-16 on the Pakistan/Iran/Oman border while flying a Piper Archer. I was doing about 95 knots IAS and the F-16 couldn't have been going more than about 30 knots faster. That one wasn't pre-coordinated so I'm afraid I didn't get any video (I didn't see him until just a few seconds before he came up beside me).

So, I have no doubt that an F-16 would have no problem hanging out with a Caravan in flight.

Once again, great pictures!

[deadwood 0]

Real Photo. It looks like a Block 15 A model with a PW220 engine. It can put out as much a 24,000 lb Thrust but doesn't need to in this situatuion, even with two bags of gas. The nozzle is closed so he is somewhere below MIL power.

Also look at the leading edge slats, they are deployed, futher indicating slow speed flight.

It also looks like a Dutch tail flash.

He who hesitates shall inherit the earth.

Deadwood
Skydive New Mexico Motorcycle Club, Touring Division

[brokky 4]

piisfish asked me to post the picture of Yves Rossy ( Jetman ) buzzing my canopy with a Mirage III back in the 90´s over Saanen,CH.

The second picture is taken 2 days ago, it´s also Yves, this time intercepting the Pilatus Porter with his jetwing over Empuriabrava, Spain. With his new wing he can now climb, barrel roll, loop.etc....maybe soon at your local airshow???

wuk??

http://www.brunobrokken.com

[shropshire 0]

What a brill' photo the 2nd (#3) is

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[dninness 4]

Concur, that's a great photo.

WRT the original interception photos:

The Civil Air Patrol in the US does a lot of practice intercept missions with the USAF/ANG/AFRES folks, all over the country. These missions involve CAP piston-powered bug-smashers (172s, 182s, 206s and GA-8 Airvans) being visited upon by F-15s, F-16s and, in a couple cases, F-22s.

A good friend of mine coordinates these for his wing and they get their doors blown off (figuratively speaking) pretty regularly, but they also get "formated" by F-16s even getting it on at 100-110kts. Now, those F-16s are not exactly holding their slot like a Heritage Flight fly-past, but they can slow down enough to slide by the GA guys in a way that will get their attention. :)

NIN
D-19617, AFF-I '19