crotalus01 0 #1 July 3, 2005 man, i can feel the flames already, but here goes.... i have 40 jumps, 26 on a Sabre 190 that is regularly slamming me regardless of what i roll, stuff etc. i am loading my Sabre at 1.2:1 with no problems on landing so far (first standup landing was my first jump on it). i know i am over the conventional wingloading for my jump numbers, so lets not turn it into that debate please (S&TA, DZO approved purchase). my question is how does a Nitron fly compared to a Sabre? i ask because i was told by an experienced jumper at my DZ that if i was flying a Sabre 190 with no problems, a Nitron 170 would fly the same speed with better flare and no issues with hard openings (yes i know they can all open hard). i am sick of getting slammed (the last one knocked me out for a second and when i came to i was looking at linetwists from my neck to the slider and still spinning up). i really am not interested in downsizing, but i want a canopy that has the same speed and flying charactaristics i am used to on my Sabre. so what do you guys think? ps - not into swooping, just flying my pattern and landing. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookncrater 0 #2 July 3, 2005 I think the chance you are going to hurt yourself just increased significantly! I'd shelve the Nitron, dump the Sabre (crap), and get another 190 like a Safire2 or a Sabre2 instead. edit: just to clarify, a Nitron 170 will fly faster and respond faster to input making it a higher performance canopy than a Sabre 190. It will have better flare since it is an elliptical and it will open better since it is a superior design to the Sabre, but at your experience level you are asking for trouble. My $0.02.________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,384 #3 July 4, 2005 >i ask because i was told by an experienced jumper at my DZ that if i > was flying a Sabre 190 with no problems, a Nitron 170 would fly the > same speed with better flare and no issues with hard openings (yes > i know they can all open hard). The opposite is true. A Nitro/Nitron 210 (if they made such a beast; I think the largest they make is a 150) would be more comparable in terms of forgiveness to your Sabre1 190. Its longer recovery arc means that is't less forgiving if you do something stupid down low. Also, my Nitro does not open softly; when packed well it opens in about 300 feet, which is firm but also what I like (since I occasionally pull right at 2000.) The Nitro is a mix of a general purpose and swooping canopy. I would not recommend it for a jumper with no interest in swooping. >i really am not interested in downsizing, but i want a canopy that has > the same speed and flying charactaristics i am used to on my > Sabre. so what do you guys think? Get a Pilot 188. It flies very much like a Sabre-2 190 but has more consistent openings. I have a Pilot 150 that I use for wingsuit jumps; it opens reliably even when I'm not perfectly shoulders-level (happens sometimes when I'm flying wingsuits and I'm tired.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #4 July 4, 2005 Quotei have 40 jumps, 26 on a Sabre 190 that is regularly slamming me regardless of what i roll, stuff etc. Stick with your Sabre for now and when you pack pull all of the slider out in front of the nose. That should stop it slamming you. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #5 July 4, 2005 get a spectre or like the rest said learn how to pack the sabre. But i know 2 people who were hurt badly on a sabre 1 opening. One can no longer jump. You know the risks, do what you think best. Have you ever landed that canopy off the airport? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
btucker 0 #6 July 4, 2005 Is there anyway at all you can keep going on the Sabre? A bigger slider maybe? I think a phone call to PD might be in order. I'm sure they are used to getting calls from Sabre owners about hard openings... For where you are now, a new canopy is alot of cash, I say use that money to jump rather than buy another canopy that probably won't last that long. As when you get 200 jumps up you will want something smaller/faster/better again. Blues Benno. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pccoder 0 #7 July 4, 2005 Please slow down and listen to the other more experienced jumpers comments in this thread (not talking about me). You will not be alive to keep posting if you continue on the path to higher performance with no experience. In fact, I'd be jumping an even larger canopy than what you are jumping now if I were you. PcCoder.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #8 July 4, 2005 The simplest solution is modifying your slider. The first step involves measuring your slider to see if it is the same size as the last year of Sabre Mark 1 production (Hint: phone Performance Designs). If you have the correct slider and it still opens hard, then ask your local rigger to sew pocket(s) onto your slider. Which reminds me, I have to sew pockets on a Sabre Mark 1-170 this morning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutem 0 #9 July 4, 2005 Bill did I miss something? Did you just reccomend a pilot 168 at a 1.35 wl for a jumper with 40 jumps? You obviously know your stuff, so I am hesitant to question your advise. No disrespect intended. James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #10 July 4, 2005 thanks guys, gonna give PD a call. like i said, im no rush to downsize, i like the way the Sabre flies, just sick of the openings. edit to add yes i have landed it off the airport in a fairly tight area between trees and powerlines... As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #11 July 4, 2005 QuoteQuotei have 40 jumps, 26 on a Sabre 190 that is regularly slamming me regardless of what i roll, stuff etc. Stick with your Sabre for now and when you pack pull all of the slider out in front of the nose. That should stop it slamming you. just to clarify, are you saying pull all of the slider out front instead of quartering it? i have a pocket slider on it .... As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #12 July 4, 2005 Quotejust to clarify, are you saying pull all of the slider out front instead of quartering it? Yes, that is what I was saying, but ..... Quotei have a pocket slider on it .... I do not know what you mean by a pocket slider, Riggerrob mentioned pockets as well. Please ignore my advice for the moment until I understand what is meant by a pocket slider. Edited to add: Ok, after a search for "pocket slider" in the forums I found what I was looking for. Please continue to ignore my advice as I have no experience of such sliders on sabres. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murps2000 86 #13 July 4, 2005 just to clarify, are you saying pull all of the slider out front instead of quartering it? i have a pocket slider on it .... *** When you call PD, ask them about this. When I did years ago, regarding the very same size & model canopy you have, I was told that they designed it to be packed with the slider equally quartered between the line groups. I don't know about pocket sliders on anything but tandems, though. Also, I don't know what they'll say about it, but their may be a way to modify your brake lines to soften openings. Ask them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #14 July 4, 2005 I had a lot of jumps on a smaller Sabre and it was fine, but all the bigger Sabres seemed to open hard. Try rolling the nose super tight all the way back the "A" lines. If that doesn't slow it down roll up the outboard three cells on each side and stuff them into the center cell . . . when you are packing the idea in your head should be don’t open, don’t open . . . NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,384 #15 July 5, 2005 >Did you just reccomend a pilot 168 at a 1.35 wl for a jumper with 40 jumps? No; thanks for catching my typo. A Pilot 188 is a better choice for someone comfortable under a Sabre 1 190. I have fixed my previous post. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #16 July 5, 2005 QuoteIf that doesn't slow it down roll up the outboard three cells on each side and stuff them into the center cell Caveat - PD doesn't recommend doing this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #17 July 5, 2005 just got off the phone with PD. they recommend sending it in for an inspection and possibly a reline. they also recommended i try a new slider. thinking of switching from microline to dacron if they do have to reline it. thanks for all the info you guys posted for me. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
