Samurai for a 100 jump person

[flipper 0]

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Why not ask Brian Germain himself?


http://www.bigairsportz.com/contact.php

C'mon Brian - lets have your input here ...

[billeisele 122]

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Ha, in your face you all conservative fossils from the 70's!

call me if you are still around after 32 years

no one said it was not possible, it's just not smart

I'm past the point of trying to give good advice, my new slogan is

Go For It - Get Hurt Early

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

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[virgin-burner 1]

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It wasn't too long ago a sabre 1 was radical and a 150 was a death wish.

that was my first canopy at 60-something jumps..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[wmw999 2,114]

And if a low-time jumper spends the majority of their time focusing on canopy control with a mentor, there's absolutely nothing wrong with their progressing faster than the average student -- they're taking an accelerated class then.

But young people aren't really that much smarter now than young people were 30 years ago. While we know more about the edgier canopies, physics hasn't changed a whole lot either.

And just as everyone has heard about the cameraman who jumped without a rig, everyone knows someone who pushed the envelope on canopy and lived, and most people know someone who won more than a dollar at the lottery.

But thinking you can count on winning the lottery is still fucking braindead, even if someone does get lucky sometimes.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jumpwally 0]

Perfect,,,tell him to remove two cells and associated lines and he's got a hot rod,,,,what an onionhead..

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[jacketsdb23 45]

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It wasn't too long ago a sabre 1 was radical and a 150 was a death wish.

that was my first canopy at 60-something jumps..

As it is for many people now days. I'm just saying as the sport progresses canopies get faster, technology may be better, we may be better pilots and more educated...but the ground still stays just as hard and deadly.

Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

[billvon 2,379]

>Ha, in your face you all conservative fossils from the 70's!

Well, to be fair, a lot of the really-pushing-it jumpers from the 70's don't post in threads like this because they're dead. So you're going to see the ones who didn't die; sort of evolution in action.

[Amazon 7]

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Here are my 2 cents.

I personally aware of the successful handling of Samo 170 by the jumper with under 100 jumps loading it 1.0. The same person had an average canopy piloting skills at the time. At 280 jumps in his skydiving career he moved to Samo 150 without a single chop or accidents under his 170. He has got now just under 500 jumps all up and is planning to move down to 136.

At the same time I'm aware of the jumper who used to jump 120 sq.ft Sabre 2 loading it nearly 2.0. You would never believe the guy was jumping a Sabre looking at his landing. Does it make Sabre (widely accepted a good post student canopy) less aggressive canopy? Hell no - it's a f....ing hungry dog. I actually prefer to be under Samo than Sabre 2 with the same wingloading no both.
And i had a chance to compare Samo 136, Mamba 132 and Katana 135 and Samo does not come even close to the last two. And Under Samo 136 it felt like i was flying 150 sq.ft main, not 136.
I'm not trying to say that Samo is an excellent choice for a beginner, but it can be flown conservatively, and it's a rock solid in turbulence - very stable and reliable.
It's largely depends on the wing loading and awareness/knowledge of the type of canopy you fly.

Ha, in your face you all conservative fossils from the 70's!

DUDE.. if you ever do actually jump again.. can you PLEASE post when and where its going to be... I have a brand new Sony HD... I love cool video

I have been looking for a good excuse to come to Europe and make a few jumps

[mnealtx 0]

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Ha, in your face you all conservative fossils from the 70's!

1) The are old skydivers and there are bold skydivers but there are no old bold skydivers

2) Young, dumb and full of cum

3) Troll?

Yup - he finally found ONE person out of the thousands registered on this site that agreed with him, so he thinks he's right, now.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

To the OP: No. It's not a good idea. Give him a couple days and Brian Germain should get back to you telling you so. After the shit that got stirred up in the "Stiletto as a student canopy", it is understandable that some folks would think you are posting this just to prolong the flamefest now that that thread has died out. I am not saying you are making this up, just explaining why some think that.

If you read through the Stiletto as a student canopy thread (Not the older part of it so much as the most recent stuff) you'll see all the arguments why your friend shouldn't be under that canopy (or any elliptical for that matter) at this point in his career.

Skydiverkeith: A troll is someone who post something that may or may not be true with the deliberate intent of starting a heated discussion (it's the fishing analogy). The rules are pretty clear about this, and include a link to the definition (click the "rules" at the top of the page, just under the main bar).

DSE: I can see the validity of sanctioning any instructor who made a sale of this kind. Riggers are required by the FARs to "follow the manufacturers instructions" and recommendations when packing reserves and maintaining AADs. I think instructors should be held to the same standard when selling equipment, expecially if the buyer is this far from meeting the recommendations.
I don't see it happening, but maybe it should.

Sangi: Learn your history dude!
It isn't the "Fossils from the 70's" that are so strongly against rapid downsizing.
It's the fossils from the late 90's and early 2000's. When I first started, it was very common for people to downsize really fast. The good old "just be careful, and only do straight in approaches and you'll be fine" rationalization was really common. So were accidents. Look in the "Incidents" section in old copies of Parachutist. There were often 2 or 3 fatalities per month that were caused by inadequate skills under a canopy that was too advanced for the pilot.
A lot of people did it and got away with it, but quite a few didn't. There was a guy at my DZ that was loading a XF 139 around 1.4. He biffed twice before he learned. broke his back the first time and was out for a few months. Didn't learn, and the 2nd time he hit hard enough to break most everything below his pelvis (including the pelvis). ICU for a week, hospital for almost a month. Six months on crutches, almost a year before he could walk without a cane.

Another guy was flying a 170 Diablo at ~ 1.2 at around 100 jumps. He has had a few close calls and a 2 cutaways, but hasn't broken himself yet.

Eventually USPA got tired of it and started the "Femur is not a Verb!" campaign to try to reduce the accidents (they revised the SIM too).

It's been long enough since all that insanity that a lot of newer jumpers haven't seen it.
I was "lucky" enough to see the end of it firsthand, and have a healthy respect for advanced canopy flight.

Edit to change canopy name to the correct one because I'm an idiot.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[likestojump 3]

I suggest you edit your post as to not fuck up searches.

Sillhouette as IS A GREAT canopy VERY SUITABLE for low time jumpers. It was the Stiletto that is being debated as being a piss poor choice.

[monkycndo 0]

Mike, Sangi is always right. Whether it be wingsuiting, canopies or whatever. Remarkable how much of an expert one can become with 100 jumps. And if you ever forget, just ask him. He'll set you straight.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[DFWAJG 4]

I bought a Samurai after about 175 jumps. It is very sporty. I found myself only jumping when it was windy, so I would have slower landings.. You need fast feet with a Sam. My advice, wait a while longer. Check out a Saffire 2, Pilot or Sabre 2.

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

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I suggest you edit your post as to not fuck up searches.

Sillhouette as IS A GREAT canopy VERY SUITABLE for low time jumpers. It was the Stiletto that is being debated as being a piss poor choice.

Thanks. It's changed. I'm kinda tired.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Amazon 7]

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I bought a Samurai after about 175 jumps. It is very sporty. I found myself only jumping when it was windy, so I would have slower landings.. You need fast feet with a Sam. My advice, wait a while longer. Check out a Saffire 2, Pilot or Sabre 2.

Yeah.definitely sporty..ESPECIALLY on no wind days.... the canopy I have now lands slower than my Samurai did... and its 20 SqFt smaller

I am just too damn old to run that fast any more

PLUS.. it ended up getting a patch... It tore on the pumphouse when I could not collapse the airlocks quickly enough in 25MPH+ winds....not a great canopy to jump at a place like Byron... unless they turn off all the damn fans over there to the west of the DZ once in a while

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I bought a Samurai after about 175 jumps. It is very sporty. I found myself only jumping when it was windy, so I would have slower landings.. You need fast feet with a Sam.

You need experience and decent canopy piloting skills. With larger sizes flaring all the way (there's power deeper into the toggle stroke than other canopies) would have done the trick and at smaller a good job of energy management is all you need.

I've parked 200 pounds of me, beer gut, and rig in the middle of the pea gravel with a 8000+ foot density altitude under a Samurai 105 with just a couple steps to stop.

I liked 120 square feet more at that size and altitude since it wasn't as demanding to fly and put hundreds of jumps on the 105 I bought after shrinking my belly 25 pounds.

I moved to sea levle, grew my belly back, and found 200 pounds at 105 square feet worked great at sea level although currency and paying attention are required.

Regardless, to agree with Brian it's not appropriate for people with under 300 jumps.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I bought a Samurai after about 175 jumps. It is very sporty. I found myself only jumping when it was windy, so I would have slower landings.. You need fast feet with a Sam. My advice, wait a while longer. Check out a Saffire 2, Pilot or Sabre 2.

Yeah.definitely sporty..ESPECIALLY on no wind days.... the canopy I have now lands slower than my Samurai did... and its 20 SqFt smaller

You finish your landing approach flying along so your feet would be below ground level if you tried to run until somewhat short of where you're not going to have a choice about running and finish quicker on the toggles to bring yourself back up to ground level. You'll stop real well.

Or at least head for pea gravel for soft landing confidence and keep adding enough toggle to keep your feet off the ground until it stops flying and you drop - it'll both go slower and take more toggle than you expect.

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PLUS.. it ended up getting a patch... It tore on the pumphouse when I could not collapse the airlocks quickly enough in 25MPH+ winds....not a great canopy to jump at a place like Byron... unless they turn off all the damn fans over there to the west of the DZ once in a while

That's also technique. You can turn the canopy into the ground and get it lying on the topskin with the nose facing you, run the slider up, and yank on the tail to spill out excess air. That's even in the owner's manual.

How deep the toggles go, trim, control response, and recovery arc are all matters of taste but there's nothing wrong with the canopy. You can make a good case for the Samurai being the best all-around non-cross-braced canopy for experienced current skydivers not jumping wingsuits designed before the Katana (I never got around to jumping newer designs).

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Why not ask Brian Germain himself?


http://www.bigairsportz.com/contact.php

C'mon Brian - lets have your input here ...

His owner's manual says:

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The Samurai is a high performance parachute, requiring at least 300 jumps. Use of the Samurai by persons with less than 300 jumps is strictly prohibited, and may result in serious injury or death.

http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf

goes on to suggest canopy size limits starting around 1.0 + .1/100 jumps maximum wing loading, plus "Add one size for Fully Elliptical Canopies", plus special treatment for smaller sizes.

[Hellis 0]

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Mike, Sangi is always right. Whether it be wingsuiting, canopies or whatever. Remarkable how much of an expert one can become with 100 jumps. And if you ever forget, just ask him. He'll set you straight.

You forgot his expertise in camerajumping

[Amazon 7]

Give it 25 more years

[4chewnate 0]

I haven't reay any of the Stilletto thread.

My activity here is somewhat spoty.

I have a lot going on and I don't always get to catch up on this site.

The Stilletto thread looks way to long for me to even start.

I'd really like to hear what Brian has to say.

[BrianSGermain 1]

I designed the Samurai to be a fun ride for experenced pilots only, not for folks with 100 jumps. It is possible that someone may survive the Sam with very little experience, but you can also jump without a reserve for a long time before you wished you had one.

There is no rush. Take your time and survive the learning process. The wild rides will be there for you when your learned instincts are ready.

Please do not sell eliptical canopies to low experienced jumpers, no matter how broke you are. This is a karma-based sport, and you don't want that kind of bad juju following you around.

Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com
Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com
Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com

[BrianSGermain 1]

Hey Everybody, sorry for the late response.

I designed the Samurai to be a fun ride for experienced jumpers only. Some are ready for it earlier than others, but rarely before 300 jumps. Flying it with 100 jumps is just plain silly. Selling it to
someone with 100 jumps is just plain irresponsible.

When an eliptical canopy opens badly, things get crazy. When you turn it close to the ground without great skill and understanding, you can get squished. Really squished. Go towards the light squished. It is a beautiful planet, but it is quite hard.

Take your time, and survive the learning process.

There is no rush, this a a long journey.

Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com
Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com
Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com

[mnealtx 0]

Thanks, Brian.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Thanks for posting, Sangi will correct you later.