packing_jarrett 0 #26 July 21, 2006 I know of grand caravans that are capable of holding 21 jumpers.Na' Cho' Cheese Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #27 July 21, 2006 Quote I thought a Grand Caravan held 18 while a Super Otter 23? I think I've only been in a regular Caravan and regular Twin Otter though. We put 16 in ours. Still doesn't climb as fast as a PAC with 18 IMO.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faicon9493 114 #28 July 21, 2006 QuoteWhat is your favorite single-engined jump plane? Do you like it because of its seats? ... number of seats? ... size of door? ... rate of climb? The coolest single engine plane that I ever jumped was Mike Mullins' Helio Stallion, but that was a long time ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #29 July 21, 2006 Quote...a PAC with 18 IMO. Can you say "sardines?" Thank God we had a DZO that sent it with 14 max unless we asked for a 15th.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #30 July 21, 2006 QuoteQuote...a PAC with 18 IMO. Can you say "sardines?" Thank God we had a DZO that sent it with 14 max unless we asked for a 15th. We fit 16 in at Byron (they have been leasing the W/B PAC from Ray, who was flying mostly) the past couple of weeks and we SHOULD have put Angie in the empty co-pilot seat instead of bumping her off the load. 18 of me (I'm smallish) would probably fit - especially using the co-pilot seat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #31 July 21, 2006 Caravan, then porter. Never jumped a PAC yet though I plan on it at some time. One of the problems with the porter is insurance is really high since it is a tail dragger and the insurance companies want lots of tail time. Also, the caravan wins in the pilot comfort factor. The pilot in the porter sits in a glass bowl that gets very hot. Also the porter has a few "quirks" that the caravan does not seem to have. However the porter seems to cost less to buy. Both can fly with 5 and break even I am told. Caravan can carry 16-18 where the porter with 9 is TIGHT."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #32 July 21, 2006 QuoteCan you say "sardines?" [Laugh][Laugh][Laugh] Hey, as long as you don't mind not being able to breath it's greatDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #33 July 22, 2006 QuoteI know of grand caravans that are capable of holding 21 jumpers. Capable of holding and fly safely are 2 very different things.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #34 July 22, 2006 Quote I like the C-182 because it helped skydiving grow to the sport we know today. Re-engined to 300HP and with other available mods, an early wide-body 182 can carry 6 jumpers plus a pilot. Huh? I don't think so. There is no way you can be in balance with seven adults in a 182. I don't care how many horses you have or how long the wings are. Where is the approved seatbelt location for the sixth jumper? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattmais 0 #35 July 22, 2006 Helio-stalion: climb rate, comfort, size of door, size of step Thanks Mike for this wonderfull aircraft! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LearningTOfly 0 #36 July 22, 2006 Porter... Tailwheel, turbine, and in flight beta range... what more could you ask for? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
velvetjo 0 #37 July 22, 2006 QuoteQuote I like the C-182 because it helped skydiving grow to the sport we know today. Re-engined to 300HP and with other available mods, an early wide-body 182 can carry 6 jumpers plus a pilot. Huh? I don't think so. There is no way you can be in balance with seven adults in a 182. I don't care how many horses you have or how long the wings are. Where is the approved seatbelt location for the sixth jumper? Believe whatever you want, but it can be done legally and safely, at least in the US (not sure about Transport Canada's regs). You might want to do your homework on what STC's are actually available for 182's before you make any other assertions like the one above. Cessna Pilots Association would be a good place to start your research if you're into opening your mind a bit on the subject. You might also want to check out info on FAA 337 Field Approvals while you're at it. Happy flying! Lance PS - Here's a hint on your W&B question: jumpers don't have to face forward. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #38 July 22, 2006 So do you have four people in a row on the right like a 206 or three in a row behind the pilot? Either way I don't see the the room. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
velvetjo 0 #39 July 22, 2006 4 on the right side (3 rear face back and front person faces forward) and 2 facing backward behind the pilot. It's tight, but it gets the job done. Back on topic, it just shows what an economical & versatile plane the 182 can be. They're all fun though! Lance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Travman 6 #40 July 22, 2006 I'm always up for some Beaver :) Climbs very quickly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #41 July 22, 2006 QuoteYou are very correct. Super Otters and King Airs are both multi engine aircraft. Rob was refering to the DHC3 "Super" Otter - which is a single. Most are on floats I think. Never jumped one but it (or a PAC750) is what I would buy if I had cash to burn.... http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?$=main/review/ttc.htm rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #42 July 22, 2006 Quote4 on the right side (3 rear face back and front person faces forward) and 2 facing backward behind the pilot. It's tight, but it gets the job done. Back on topic, it just shows what an economical & versatile plane the 182 can be. They're all fun though! Lance 6 jumpers in a widebody 182? not with me on board. rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #43 July 22, 2006 I voted "Other" for the PAC750XL with Grand Caravan a close second for different reasons.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lok 0 #44 July 22, 2006 QuoteQuoteIt has the most cost effective (low fuel consumption turboprop, burns cheap jet fuel) and reliable engine available. Really? I thought the PAC was more efficient? No, is not Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lok 0 #45 July 22, 2006 QuoteQuoteEven with just 5 jumpers in the dropzone midweek, the Caravan will go up. Ours doesn't. I don't think its as fast as the PACs and Porters I've jumped either (Someone else mentioned the TurboFinist - that's worth a mention during winter months for having a completely draughtproof door. Toasty If one aircraft will go up with full load or not, depends mainly from the financial condition of the Skydiving center which operate the aircraft. Anyway the Caravan is still cost efective with only 5 jumpers on board. With 9-11 jumpers load in Caravan (as much as PAC and PORTER can carry) the rate of climb is better or the same (in the case of PAC).............with full load of 16 jumpers, the rate of climb is lower than the Porter or PAC, but in any case, the Caravan is the most cost efective. Langar used to Operate a TURBOPORTER years before, now is raplaced by the Caravan... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lok 0 #46 July 22, 2006 QuoteQuoteI jump at Langar, and the Grand Caravan is the best single engine jumpship as fare as I know. Even with just 5 jumpers in the dropzone midweek, the Caravan will go up. With 9-11 jumpers onboard and with pilots as capable as those at Langar, the aircraft goes to 13,000-14,000ft really fast. With full load of 15-16 jumpers the rate of climb is slower but still better even from twin engine turboprop Skyvan. I am Aerospace Systems Engineer and as fare as I know the Caravan is the best Single engine aircraft, one dropzone can have: Its lift capacity is nearly the same to one twin engine civilian jumpship. It has the most cost effective (low fuel consumption turboprop, burns cheap jet fuel) and reliable engine available. Even in emergency situation, can easily glide and land safely as dragon2 said. The only bad thing is the initial acquition cost, must be over $1,200,000+ various modifications for the various skydiving disciplines and the static line jumpers. http://www.benair.com/Cessna%20Caravan_files/2006%20Caravan%20675%20Specification%20%26%20Description%20SN%20396%20and%20on_1.pdf With 5 jumpers you are maybe breaking even. I question its ability to match the lift capacity of a super otter or a fast king air. What exactly is "cheap" jet fuel and where are you getting it, cause everywhere we seem to look, jet fuel is fuckin expensive Anyways, the PAC is a more cost effective solution, it is smaller though. Most planes can land safely under loss of power. Yes, we speak about single engine aircrafts here, and personally I don't know many single engine jumpships to have 14-16 jumpers lift capacity. JET FUEL is still cheaper than AVGAS 100LL (taxed aviation gazoline). There is no comparison between the glide performance of High-Wing C208B Caravan and the Low-wing PAC 750.... Caravan is much better in any case and the most cost-efective single engine jumpship. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #47 July 22, 2006 if you were a DZO and had to use your own cash and wanted to maximize profit you'd buy a Caravan over a PAC750? I find that surprising to hear. Why the popularity of the PAC750 then? rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lok 0 #48 July 22, 2006 I really don't know, I think the C208b is very popular also, especially in Europe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #49 July 22, 2006 Demand for the 208B is very high here in the states and has driven the cost of a used one up higher then the cost of a new 750XL. Initial payout is less and the on going maintence is less also since its a brand new airframe and is not coming up on time or cycle limits like some of the older Caravans are. Makes sence why some operators are getting the 750's over paying out way more money for a used plane that might even need to have mods done to make it jumpable.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #50 July 22, 2006 QuoteWith 9-11 jumpers load in Caravan (as much as PAC and PORTER can carry) If you think the PAC 750XL only takes 11 then you have it confused with a different aircraft. Carks PAC with 18 on board climbs faster than Nethers' Grand Caravan with 15/16.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
