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mrkeske

Canopy deployment procedures

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When you deploy your canopy, you are thought that you need to see your canopy deploying an see it if it's square, slider down, etc.

But over time, you start doing other things, like looking at surrounding and seeing if there is anyone near you, or even starting a rear riser turn toward the the landing area, etc.

And as times goes, I've seen that many skydivers have different procedures, some feel the canopy opening and look where their headinng. Others always look at canopy until they are at full flight and the pilot released the brakes. I've seen that many different skydivers have different opinions and procedures and preferences as they are getting (or already are) more experienced.

I personally, see where I am heading, while "feeling" the opening of the canopy, after it's open I head twoards the landing area with rear risers and then colpase slider widden chest straps and pull the toggles.

What I would like to see, is many opinions/prefrences/thoughts on this subject, what do you do between pulling the hackey and unstowing your breaks?

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Canopy looks good...check for traffic
Collapse slider...check for traffic
Using rears, point toward LZ...check for traffic
Loosen chest strap...check for traffic
Bring leg straps to thighs...check for traffic
Release brakes, go full flight...check for traffic
Canopy control check...check for traffic
Have some fun...check for traffic
Land..check for traffic
Manifest...check wallet for some cash, check for traffic

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mrkeske


What I would like to see, is many opinions/prefrences/thoughts on this subject, what do you do between pulling the hackey and unstowing your breaks?



I 'feel' trough the opening. I know, how my canopy behaves during most openings and when something feels weird I still can look up and check in just a blink of an eye.
For me there is mutch more sense in checking canopy traffic and directing myself towards the dropzone than to watch the mess above my head ;) I make sure, where I am and where everybody else is and then collapse the slider, pull it down behind my neck, check my breaks and unstow them. Thats also pretty mutch the way it is teached by our instructors.

After you pulled it should be (mals asside) priority no.1 for everybody to avoid canopy collisions.
Be ready to steer your canopy as soon as it is steerable. Except you're allone in the sky, then do whatever you like ;) B|

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GooniesKid

Canopy looks good...check for traffic
Collapse slider...check for traffic
Using rears, point toward LZ...check for traffic
Loosen chest strap...check for traffic
Bring leg straps to thighs...check for traffic
Release brakes, go full flight...check for traffic
Canopy control check...check for traffic
Have some fun...check for traffic
Land..check for traffic
Manifest...check wallet for some cash, check for traffic



I personally think that releasing brakes after loosening the chest strap is not the best choice. What is the reason? Here: http://www.deepseed.com/d-spot/blog/liam/inside-no-pull-cypres-save-0

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GooniesKid

just personal preference...i want to be inside the triangle of the parachute instead of hanging on the triangle.



I don't think he's saying you shouldn't loosen the chest strap -- he's saying do it after you release your brakes. I agree. The idea is to make sure as best you can that you won't have to cut away before loosening the chest strap (e.g., what if one brake releases and the other won't release?), which could cause for a very difficult time trying to find your handles while executing EPs.

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evan85

***just personal preference...i want to be inside the triangle of the parachute instead of hanging on the triangle.



I don't think he's saying you shouldn't loosen the chest strap -- he's saying do it after you release your brakes. I agree. The idea is to make sure as best you can that you won't have to cut away before loosening the chest strap (e.g., what if one brake releases and the other won't release?), which could cause for a very difficult time trying to find your handles while executing EPs.

Exactly. I do loose my chest strap. But I do it after releasing the brakes.

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Deimian

***Canopy looks good...check for traffic
Collapse slider...check for traffic
Using rears, point toward LZ...check for traffic
Loosen chest strap...check for traffic
Bring leg straps to thighs...check for traffic
Release brakes, go full flight...check for traffic
Canopy control check...check for traffic
Have some fun...check for traffic
Land..check for traffic
Manifest...check wallet for some cash, check for traffic



I personally think that releasing brakes after loosening the chest strap is not the best choice. What is the reason? Here: http://www.deepseed.com/d-spot/blog/liam/inside-no-pull-cypres-save-0

I agree.
Goonie, you may want to consider this flow:
Canopy looks good... check traffic
Release brakes & control check... check traffic
Locate LZ... check traffic
Choose best/safest route to LZ
Housekeeping... slider/legstraps/cheststraps/turn camera off, etc.

Not only the aforementioned cheststrap, you may not want a reserve opening with legstraps down to your knees. ;)
Every fight is a food fight if you're a cannibal

Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess

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kuai43

******Canopy looks good...check for traffic
Collapse slider...check for traffic
Using rears, point toward LZ...check for traffic
Loosen chest strap...check for traffic
Bring leg straps to thighs...check for traffic
Release brakes, go full flight...check for traffic
Canopy control check...check for traffic
Have some fun...check for traffic
Land..check for traffic
Manifest...check wallet for some cash, check for traffic



I personally think that releasing brakes after loosening the chest strap is not the best choice. What is the reason? Here: http://www.deepseed.com/d-spot/blog/liam/inside-no-pull-cypres-save-0

I agree.
Goonie, you may want to consider this flow:
Canopy looks good... check traffic
Release brakes & control check... check traffic
Locate LZ... check traffic
Choose best/safest route to LZ
Housekeeping... slider/legstraps/cheststraps/turn camera off, etc.

Not only the aforementioned cheststrap, you may not want a reserve opening with legstraps down to your knees. ;)

This has been discussed before, but I personally don't think that pulling the slider down AFTER you have release the brakes is a good approach. Pulling it down with the brakes released looks to me far more complicated, time consuming, distracting and error prone than doing it with the brakes stowed. Also, why would you want to loosen your leg straps? I understand that being in a seated position is more comfortable, but we are not hanging for that long......

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+1

Assuming you're not having a mal..

Clear airspace
Turn towards DZ (or at least off the line of flight)
Stow slider
Release brakes/control check
Loosen cheststrap/reposition legstraps (w/o loosening)
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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Deimian


This has been discussed before, but I personally don't think that pulling the slider down AFTER you have release the brakes is a good approach. Pulling it down with the brakes released looks to me far more complicated, time consuming, distracting and error prone than doing it with the brakes stowed. Also, why would you want to loosen your leg straps? I understand that being in a seated position is more comfortable, but we are not hanging for that long......



Agreed with this.
It's just so more natural and cleaner to have the brake lines out of your slider grommets that way (which I prefer).
I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

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1. Throw out PC
2. TAP (traffic, altitude, position)
3. Watch as canopy deploys for problems
4. Use harness turns to turn toward DZ and off flight path as it deploys.
5. TAP
6. Use rear riser to get fully on path to holding area
7. TAP
8. stow slider, get butt fully seated
9. Release brakes (Once brakes are released except for an emergecy, I dont let go of them. I think thats dangerous.)
10. TAP
11. Loosen chest strap, open helmet visor
12. Do any canopy exercises I wanted to practice that jump.
13. TAP
14. Get in landing pattern
15. TAP
16. Land

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Doug_Davis

(Once brakes are released except for an emergecy, I dont let go of them. I think thats dangerous.)



Some friends and I had a discussion about this last weekend at the DZ. I wonder what others think. The discussion went as follows: we do all sorts of things without holding on to control inputs. For example, even in your steps here (not calling you out, just using this as an example) you stow your slider while not holding on to any control inputs. Why does that change significantly after your release your brakes? I mean, I understand the obvious -- you're going faster. But if something were to become an issue while stowing your slider, presumably you'd reach up and grab a handful of rear riser. Why couldn't I do the same with my toggles unstowed?

For me personally -- this is the short version, obviously I do traffic etc. checks -- I stow my slider, release my brakes, drop them, loosen my chest strap, and then get my hands in the toggles again. From that point on I generally don't take my hands out of the toggles, but I don't see a serious problem in doing so as long as (a) you're plenty high up (i.e. not even close to pattern-entry altitude), (b) whatever you're doing, you're still watching for traffic etc., and (c) you can easily get the toggles again (or grab some rear riser) when necessary.

So I guess my question is this: is "don't drop your toggles ever except for in an emergency" really a big deal? Do people loosen their chest straps etc. with their toggles in their hands (for those of us who release brakes before loosening chest strap)?

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Doug_Davis

1. Throw out PC
2. TAP (traffic, altitude, position)
3. Watch as canopy deploys for problems
4. Use harness turns to turn toward DZ and off flight path as it deploys.
5. TAP
6. Use rear riser to get fully on path to holding area
7. TAP
8. stow slider, get butt fully seated
9. Release brakes (Once brakes are released except for an emergecy, I dont let go of them. I think thats dangerous.)
10. TAP
11. Loosen chest strap, open helmet visor
12. Do any canopy exercises I wanted to practice that jump.
13. TAP
14. Get in landing pattern
15. TAP
16. Land




0.Tap ... before you pitch!

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

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kuai43

******Canopy looks good...check for traffic
Collapse slider...check for traffic
Using rears, point toward LZ...check for traffic
Loosen chest strap...check for traffic
Bring leg straps to thighs...check for traffic
Release brakes, go full flight...check for traffic
Canopy control check...check for traffic
Have some fun...check for traffic
Land..check for traffic
Manifest...check wallet for some cash, check for traffic



I personally think that releasing brakes after loosening the chest strap is not the best choice. What is the reason? Here: http://www.deepseed.com/d-spot/blog/liam/inside-no-pull-cypres-save-0

I agree.
Goonie, you may want to consider this flow:
Canopy looks good... check traffic
Release brakes & control check... check traffic
Locate LZ... check traffic
Choose best/safest route to LZ
Housekeeping... slider/legstraps/cheststraps/turn camera off, etc.

Not only the aforementioned cheststrap, you may not want a reserve opening with legstraps down to your knees. ;)

KK,,i will adopt that procedure this weekend.

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I had a similar conversation with my S&TA pretty recently. He advised hands in toggles while loosening chest strap for two reasons. One is to avoid having a loose chest strap if unstowing your brakes causes a mal from which you need to cut away. Two is for slower flight while fiddling with your chest strap which buys you time while you're distracted from looking around for other canopies. Seemed reasonable to me.

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Beardo

I had a similar conversation with my S&TA pretty recently. He advised hands in toggles while loosening chest strap for two reasons. One is to avoid having a loose chest strap if unstowing your brakes causes a mal from which you need to cut away. Two is for slower flight while fiddling with your chest strap which buys you time while you're distracted from looking around for other canopies. Seemed reasonable to me.



Thanks. Well-taken, but I'm not sure I agree.

Re #1, I already unstow my brakes before I go to loosen my cheststrap, so I don't think that's applicable. I think this comment goes more to the order, not whether it's ok to release toggles after unstowing them to open the chest strap.

Re #2, that's a fair point, but I'm quite proficient at doing my cheststrap very fast, and always have the ability to use harness/rear riser input if for some reason something happened during those 2 seconds that required input. Furthermore, if there was something about to happen, I've just made a fairly big input that makes my flight pattern less predictable. Isn't that the opposite of what I want?

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evan85

***(Once brakes are released except for an emergecy, I dont let go of them. I think thats dangerous.)



Some friends and I had a discussion about this last weekend at the DZ. I wonder what others think. The discussion went as follows: we do all sorts of things without holding on to control inputs. For example, even in your steps here (not calling you out, just using this as an example) you stow your slider while not holding on to any control inputs. Why does that change significantly after your release your brakes? I mean, I understand the obvious -- you're going faster. But if something were to become an issue while stowing your slider, presumably you'd reach up and grab a handful of rear riser. Why couldn't I do the same with my toggles unstowed?

For me personally -- this is the short version, obviously I do traffic etc. checks -- I stow my slider, release my brakes, drop them, loosen my chest strap, and then get my hands in the toggles again. From that point on I generally don't take my hands out of the toggles, but I don't see a serious problem in doing so as long as (a) you're plenty high up (i.e. not even close to pattern-entry altitude), (b) whatever you're doing, you're still watching for traffic etc., and (c) you can easily get the toggles again (or grab some rear riser) when necessary.

So I guess my question is this: is "don't drop your toggles ever except for in an emergency" really a big deal? Do people loosen their chest straps etc. with their toggles in their hands (for those of us who release brakes before loosening chest strap)?

All I can tell you is what I was told by my instructors and others with far more experience than myself.
If you let go of your toggles after releasing them they could zing up into your suspension lines and become caught, a tension knot could develop from them twisting in the wind, or any other number of foul horrible catastrophes.

I was just taught its safer to not let go, than to let go. So I dont. YMMV.

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Doug_Davis


All I can tell you is what I was told by my instructors and others with far more experience than myself.
If you let go of your toggles after releasing them they could zing up into your suspension lines and become caught, a tension knot could develop from them twisting in the wind, or any other number of foul horrible catastrophes.

I was just taught its safer to not let go, than to let go. So I dont. YMMV.



Think about it. What happens if you return to full flight (ie hands all the way up), then let go of the toggles? Where do the toggles go/have room to go? Where does the slack in the steering line go?

ciel bleu,
Saskia

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dragon2



Think about it. What happens if you return to full flight (ie hands all the way up), then let go of the toggles? Where do the toggles go/have room to go? Where does the slack in the steering line go?



I understand your point. Still better to be safe than sorry. There is no reason, given my post deployment procedures under a normal non-emergency situation, to let go of my toggles. So I dont.
Its what my instructors and numerous other people have told me to do, so I do it. Again YMMV.

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I jump a large canopy with wide risers, so I don't pull the slider down, and therefore loosening the chest strap is of no value. Just collapse the slider and open the helmet visor after verifying no traffic issue.

I release the brakes nearly right away, instead of pulling on risers to make early inputs. If my canopy is sniveling much, that means I'm releasing the brakes before it is completely done opening. I'm very proficient at grabbing the brakes quickly (I like toggles that naturally stay open) and it allows me to turn very quickly. I stow my brakes very carefully with the excess stowed in a way that assures it will stay out of the way until the brake is released.

I realize not many do things this way, and that some will say that it is not the best.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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It's not a good habit to look at the canopy when it's deploying. In order to keep your harness symetrical, immediately after throwing away your pilot chute, you should come back in the box position, slightly de-arched and look at the horizon. That will garantee that symetrical opening forces will pull you in an orderly manner. The result will be a canopy more staying on heading. Some canopies, like elliptical ones, are very sensitive to harness being not symetrical and start doing spirals. By looking up (and generally sideway), you are not symetrical anymore.
Don't worry, when the canopy will inflate, you cannot miss the sensation.
Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

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Depending on where you are in the exit order, and what the groups are, and where the spot is, and what the winds are doing, turning to the landing area is not always the best course of action. It varies with the situation.
Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

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Relating to the canopy checks, do people really go through the same standard one that they did as a student? I'm not knocking it, but doesn't looking up and past your slider as you stow it pretty much tell you that the canopy is good to go. I would assume someone with a good number of jumps would easily notice a rip/tear/broken line/whatever that would lead to an unflyable parachute. Even if there was something off with it, and you missed it, wouldn't you immediately notice it when you starting using the toggles? Am I missing something here? I don't think I've seen anyone, besides those you are practicing/getting numbers for swooping, flare their canopies at any time other than landing.

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Doug_Davis


All I can tell you is what I was told by my instructors and others with far more experience than myself.
If you let go of your toggles after releasing them they could zing up into your suspension lines and become caught, a tension knot could develop from them twisting in the wind, or any other number of foul horrible catastrophes.

I was just taught its safer to not let go, than to let go. So I dont. YMMV.



Did you talk to them about this the past tuesday? :P

To know what to do and what not to do is good. But to be "affraid" to do something that is not dangerous can build up fear in the event of you by mistake doing it.

I also hate when people tell students (the macho stories) about their linetwists on crossbrace canopies.
This makes the student believe linetwists are the end of the world and must be cutawayed.

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