Balancing opinions in skydiving.

[npgraphicdesign 2]

If several seasoned jumpers give you slightly contrasting opinions regarding a safety situation that occurred involving you and another jumper that resulted in a minor injury to the other jumper, how do you balance the opinions, what do you take with a grain of salt, etc? And lastly, how do you deal with jackasses that start swearing in your face without a drop of useful/educational input?

[jaffo 0]

I don't want to comment on the skydiving portion. There are people on this forum more qualified to answer and I'll let them.

From a human standpoint, I hate hearing about this type of thing in skydiving.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that you're NOT an all around fuckup. (Please, this isn't meant to be offensive, just setting the stage for the discussion)

This was a one time incident and you made a judgement call that others questioned.

This is a fast paced sport that requires you to make a decision rapidly and often with incomplete information.

The other party may have been still charged up with adreniline from the event. If this is the case, you should try to have a conversation with him once the situation settles down.

If this is just his skygod complex and he's always a shi-thead, then I have 3 steps I follow.

1. Let the authority at the DZ know your having a problem. This is important in the event that a confrontation is unavoidable. It may be the only thing that keeps you from being kicked off the DZ for good if something happens.

Most DZO's won't tolerate fighting and someone will get banned if a fight happens.

2. Just try to avoid the person. Easy on a big DZ but impossible at a small Cessna DZ. This might require you jumping elsewhere for a while.

3. I'm a firm believer in trying to avoid conflict, but I'm also not going to be treated like crap. Especially during a sport that is supposed to be recreational for me.

My father was the last person that got away with yelling at me. (I'm sure I deserved it) My bosses don't, my wife doesn't and no one else will either.

Once I've alliviated my conscience by trying to be bigger man, and once the confrontation is UNAVOIDABLE, strike first, strike hard, and don't stop until the threat is abated.

My two cents worth.
Ryder

Take chances, just do it with all the information to make good decisions!!

Muff Brother# 2706 Dudeist Skydiver# 121.5

[npgraphicdesign 2]

Quote

I don't want to comment on the skydiving portion. There are people on this forum more qualified to answer and I'll let them.

From a human standpoint, I hate hearing about this type of thing in skydiving.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that you're NOT an all around fuckup. (Please, this isn't meant to be offensive, just setting the stage for the discussion) Not taken personally at all.

This was a one time incident and you made a judgement call that others questioned.

This is a fast paced sport that requires you to make a decision rapidly and often with incomplete information.

The other party may have been still charged up with adreniline from the event. If this is the case, you should try to have a conversation with him once the situation settles down.

If this is just his skygod complex and he's always a shi-thead, then I have 3 steps I follow.

1. Let the authority at the DZ know your having a problem. This is important in the event that a confrontation is unavoidable. It may be the only thing that keeps you from being kicked off the DZ for good if something happens.

Most DZO's won't tolerate fighting and someone will get banned if a fight happens.

2. Just try to avoid the person. Easy on a big DZ but impossible at a small Cessna DZ. This might require you jumping elsewhere for a while.

3. I'm a firm believer in trying to avoid conflict, but I'm also not going to be treated like crap. Especially during a sport that is supposed to be recreational for me.

My father was the last person that got away with yelling at me. (I'm sure I deserved it) My bosses don't, my wife doesn't and no one else will either.

Once I've alliviated my conscience by trying to be bigger man, and once the confrontation is UNAVOIDABLE, strike first, strike hard, and don't stop until the threat is abated.

My two cents worth.
Ryder

Thanks Ryder. It definitely wasn't even close to actually turning into a physical confrontation, I was just surprised someone started swearing/yelling at me. She probably would've kicked my ass too as she was pretty worked up. I simply walked away from that person without listening to them and ignored them for the rest of the afternoon (i'm fairly certain that she went off because the other person was her good friend, etc.) And, that wasn't the person who was involved in the incident with me. The person that did suffer the injury was very professional and helpful, as was everyone else.

[brettski74 0]

In the past, where there was some confusion on my part as to what I could have done better, I ask someone with appropriate experience, knowledge and/or authority for advice. I don't know the specific situation, but that could be someone like the DZO, S&TA or an instructor/coach with appropriate experience. It will depend on the situation, though. If it was something like landing pattern issues, then probably the DZO and/or S&TA would be the place to go, but if it was an issue during a wingsuit flock, then you probably want to talk to the load organizer for the jump or a wingsuit instructor/coach at your DZ. You'll have to use your own judgement as to who is the best person to get advice from.

As for weighing different opinion from different people you trust, make sure that you ask enough questions to understand the reasoning behind the advice - not just the solution provided. Understanding the reasons behind each answer will help you understand the pros and cons and help you decide what is the most appropriate solution given the circumstances. I tend to think that knowing why you should do a particular thing will make you a better skydiver in the long run than simply knowing the thing to do.

[popsjumper 2]

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If several seasoned jumpers give you slightly contrasting opinions

You'll find that everywhere in life. Discussion is the key. Arguing rarely resolves any differences of opinion. When someone offers their opinion, a good question to ask is, "Why?"

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...regarding a safety situation that occurred involving you and another jumper that resulted in a minor injury to the other jumper, how do you balance the opinions...

Much more often than not, only the two involved know what actually happened and even then viewpoints often differ. Discussion of the specific incident should be done between those directly involved. General discussion of an issue can involve everyone and rightly so.

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...what do you take with a grain of salt, etc?

Unless YOU have the knowledge, you take all of it with a grain of salt. What you need is a salt-free diet.
Take in the opinions from others and then do the research to verify the accuracy of those opinions.

Then, what you'll find is that some are correct and accurate while others are total off-the-wall BS. Identify for yourself who is offering up the BS...you'd do well to ignore those guys. It rarely pays to point out the error of their ways...they won't be listening. Ninety-nine percent of the time it's THOSE guys who know nothing more than what they were told and are doing nothing more than regurgitating what they "heard".

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...And lastly, how do you deal with jackasses that start swearing in your face without a drop of useful/educational input?

Walk away as soon as they get started. They just identified themselves as jackasses/assholes....avoid them in the future.

It's usually the young punks who haven't yet learned a basic tenet in life: Screw with the wrong person and you'll get your clock cleaned...free of charge.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Sangi 0]

Care to explain what actually happened?

"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean

[pilotdave 0]

I know your question is more general, but I'll be more specific since I was standing there taking pictures of the whole thing... or at least the end of it. I don't think you did anything wrong. Don't know if you want to get into the specifics on here but basically a jumper with 1000+ jumps flew the pattern too close to you and then appeared to panic and overreact a little when your canopy drifted sideways a little bit on final (crosswind landing, following the traffic). That jumper made an overly aggressive avoidance turn and then didn't fully or evenly flare, causing a less than graceful landing. Turbulence may have been a factor as well, since you were both close to a treeline.

But my thought is this... that jumper didn't need to be near you. That jumper didn't need to be near that treeline. You've got less experience. You're allowed to land too close to trees and drift a little on final approach. Nobody should be so close that they have to dodge you. And when someone does have to make a turn on final to avoid someone, they need to make that turn carefully. When a 5 degree turn will do the trick, don't make a 45.

But for future reference, stay away from that treeline (you already knew that) and stay in your lane on final if you can (turbulence may have prevented that).

Just my unbalanced opinion.
Dave

[Sangi 0]

Sounds like a regular overreacted drama on the DZ..

"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean

[npgraphicdesign 2]

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I know your question is more general, but I'll be more specific since I was standing there taking pictures of the whole thing... or at least the end of it. I don't think you did anything wrong. Don't know if you want to get into the specifics on here but basically a jumper with 1000+ jumps flew the pattern too close to you and then appeared to panic and overreact a little when your canopy drifted sideways a little bit on final (crosswind landing, following the traffic). That jumper made an overly aggressive avoidance turn and then didn't fully or evenly flare, causing a less than graceful landing. Turbulence may have been a factor as well, since you were both close to a treeline.

But my thought is this... that jumper didn't need to be near you. That jumper didn't need to be near that treeline. You've got less experience. You're allowed to land too close to trees and drift a little on final approach. Nobody should be so close that they have to dodge you. And when someone does have to make a turn on final to avoid someone, they need to make that turn carefully. When a 5 degree turn will do the trick, don't make a 45.

But for future reference, stay away from that treeline (you already knew that) and stay in your lane on final if you can (turbulence may have prevented that).

Just my unbalanced opinion.
Dave

Thanks Dave. Balanced or not, thank you for the feedback

[davelepka 4]

If the description of the 'incident' is correct, you would not be in the wrong.

Being a new jumper flying a 210sq ft canopy at 1 to 1, you are easy see, easy to avoid, and never going to go anywhere or do anything in a hurry.

If the other jumper truely does have over 1000 jumps, it's his job to avoid you, not the other way around. It almost a 100% guarantee that he was flying a faster canopy than you, which means that for him to land at the same time as you, you were the 'low man' for the bulk of the canopy ride. As we all know, the low man has the right of way.

Addiionally, if a treeline was a factor, the more experienced jumper should know better then to put himself in a position where his only out was in the direction of an obstacle, or an area of turbulent air.

This other jumper should consider himself lucky, and see this as a 'wake up call'. Either his skills with his current canopy are not up to par (lack of ability in making a flat turn, or a flare turn is evidence of this), or his judgement under canopy may be lacking. In either case, he is lucky to have avoided serious injury, and he should look into either changing canopies or seeking some additional training in terms of landing priorities and stratagies.

[JohnDeere 0]

+1 also I dont like ass hats that run there mouth! Tell them to kiss your ass

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!