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Lok

Gravity Gear shop and other crapy shops?

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Educate yourself:

http://www.scams.flipshark.com/westernunion.html

That is just the beginning. Literally no one that has any sense accepts Western Union for payment anymore!



Although the OP clearly has not dealt with this issue well, in all fairness to him, the scam description on that page is all about how money senders get screwed by using Western Union, not money receivers.

- Dan G

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>You don't know a shit about how Western union works.
>Don't touch my country in your dirty mouth and stop sucking on bonnie.

I think I'm starting to see why you might have some trouble with email transactions.



I'm wondering why he's still allowed to post.



I was wondering if they have popcorn in Greece

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>You don't know a shit about how Western union works.
>Don't touch my country in your dirty mouth and stop sucking on bonnie.

I think I'm starting to see why you might have some trouble with email transactions.



I'm wondering why he's still allowed to post.


You know, this is in fact getting pretty silly. People say snarky things about Lok and then_he's_ the one who shouldn't be allowed to post?

Let's go back to beginnings here if you wouldn't mind.

I have known Lok via email for a number of years. He started out and has remained a respectful, humble, curious guy who is really into sport parachuting -- and in a country where you really have to make an effort to be a parachutist, unlike most of the US posters to this thread who have their choice of multiple turbine DZs within a few hours drive.

I have also known Bonnie for many years and concur with every nice thing said about her on this thread.

I am utterly confident that if these two met, they would no doubt like each other, jump together, drink beer together, et al.

Most likely, they would also compete with each other for the fastest apology/acceptance of responsibility for making a mess of this aborted transaction.

Finally, I think Bonnie might also apologize to Lok on behalf of her countrymen who seem to think it's okay to basically taunt a guy in their native language, then beat up on him further for his sometimes-less-than-elegant replies in a language which is at least his second, and maybe his third or fourth.

There have been only a few comments in this thread that are fair to Lok, and, if I correctly recall, only one that was wise ("you've made your public point, now take it private with Bonnie to sort it out").

It's also true that one messy transaction does not a crappy business make, and it's understandable that those of you who are usually calm and thoughtful in your posts would jump to Bonnie's defense because you didn't think Lok was being fair to her.

So what say everyone turn down the volume a little bit here? We have two quality people who contribute a lot to sport parachuting, and neither one of them deserves to be barked at any more (at least for THIS).

B|
SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.)

"The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

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Educate yourself:

http://www.scams.flipshark.com/westernunion.html

That is just the beginning. Literally no one that has any sense accepts Western Union for payment anymore!



Although the OP clearly has not dealt with this issue well, in all fairness to him, the scam description on that page is all about how money senders get screwed by using Western Union, not money receivers.



Sure. The link I posted is the absolute tip of the iceberg. Literally no one who has been around for the past 10 years accepts Western Union for any sort of transaction. This is due to the very high ratio of scams to legitimate transactions.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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Educate yourself:

http://www.scams.flipshark.com/westernunion.html

That is just the beginning. Literally no one that has any sense accepts Western Union for payment anymore!



are't you some kind of LEO ?

Let me tell ya about 10% of my annual revenue comes to me via Western Union. And it's not because I am scammer, or because my customers are scammers. It's because I have a business sense that tells me "money is money". Once I have cash in hand and the product still in my possession, it's pretty damn hard for ME to be the one who gets screwed.

Lok is in a country where Western Union is a popular and trusted method of payment. Many US based persons are simply not familiar with it, which does not mean that WU is a bad method. As with anything, proper precautions need to be followed. If I refused to accept WU, I would lookse 90% of my Thai customer base.

Bottom line is that I will endorse WU just as highly as I endorse Bonnie. And just to be clear - Bonnie is solid in my book.

PS it's still very much a personal choice to accept or not to accept, and until "you people" are put in a situation where it's UP TO YOU, I recommend you slow down in name calling or on giving advice based on random internet chatter.

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Educate yourself:

http://www.scams.flipshark.com/westernunion.html

That is just the beginning. Literally no one that has any sense accepts Western Union for payment anymore!



Although the OP clearly has not dealt with this issue well, in all fairness to him, the scam description on that page is all about how money senders get screwed by using Western Union, not money receivers.



Sure. The link I posted is the absolute tip of the iceberg. Literally no one who has been around for the past 10 years accepts Western Union for any sort of transaction. This is due to the very high ratio of scams to legitimate transactions.



And now you are just posting garbage.

look up how many WU offices are in any city area. Do you think if almost noone accepted (and thus sent) WU, those offices would exist ?

I am closing in on 2 decades of mail order business, and I certainly use WU.

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And now you are just posting garbage.

look up how many WU offices are in any city area. Do you think if almost noone accepted (and thus sent) WU, those offices would exist ?

I am closing in on 2 decades of mail order business, and I certainly use WU.



Slow down there guy. My point is there are significant and valid security reasons why persons would refuse to accept WU payment.

To simply say there is no problem with WU scams is fool hearty!
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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And now you are just posting garbage.

look up how many WU offices are in any city area. Do you think if almost noone accepted (and thus sent) WU, those offices would exist ?

I am closing in on 2 decades of mail order business, and I certainly use WU.



Slow down there guy. My point is there are significant and valid security reasons why persons would refuse to accept WU payment.

To simply say there is no problem with WU scams is fool hearty!



Dear, why don't you take your own advice and slow down yourself ?

I was refuting your statement "Literally no one who has been around for the past 10 years accepts Western Union for any sort of transaction".

And please show me where I said that it's not a problem - I just simply pointed out that it's not a problem FOR ME, and that if used properly, it's always the SELLER who has the upper hand.

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Anyone that comes in and flames a solid member of the community should expect a certain amount of flaming in return. Most have experience with Bonnie and few have experience with him.

Who cares if she accepts Western Union. The perception was explained to him. We get to choose who we want to sell to in this country.

It's not fair to soil her 20+ year reputation by one person's unsubstanciated complaint.

Regardless of his relationship with you, he came in on the offence. He hammered Bonnie. He had the situation explained to him and rather than accept it, he chose to continue on the offence.

He was told in no uncertain terms that he had attacked the wrong person.

He's gotten what he deserves.
Take chances, just do it with all the information to make good decisions!!

Muff Brother# 2706 Dudeist Skydiver# 121.5

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Well said, although the OP did come out swinging. At the end of the day, the seller can choose what methods of payment they wish to accept and what methods they do not accept. You can jump up and down and complain that the seller should accept your preferred method of payment but at the end of the day, if it's a popular item, you're just going to lose out. There's little incentive for a seller to invest time and money in supporting additional payment methods when they can easily move their stock using their currently supported methods. I had similar problems years ago, but rather than complain about, I adapted my methods to allow myself to more easily trade with others. If the OP wants to compete with other buyers in the marketplace, he too will need to adapt.

PayPal is not too hard to set up and much more widely accepted method of payment than Western Union. Regardless of how secure you feel it is for the seller, if the seller doesn't accept it, you're just going to lose out again and again.

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Well said, although the OP did come out swinging. At the end of the day, the seller can choose what methods of payment they wish to accept and what methods they do not accept. You can jump up and down and complain that the seller should accept your preferred method of payment but at the end of the day, if it's a popular item, you're just going to lose out. There's little incentive for a seller to invest time and money in supporting additional payment methods when they can easily move their stock using their currently supported methods. I had similar problems years ago, but rather than complain about, I adapted my methods to allow myself to more easily trade with others. If the OP wants to compete with other buyers in the marketplace, he too will need to adapt.

PayPal is not too hard to set up and much more widely accepted method of payment than Western Union. Regardless of how secure you feel it is for the seller, if the seller doesn't accept it, you're just going to lose out again and again.



Thanks for the kind words, but you missed the OP's point entirely. He proposed WU, it was declined, he said "Okay, fine with me. how would you like to get paid?" because he obviously concurs completely with your view that "the seller can choose what methods of payment they wish to accept and what methods they do not accept."

Then, according to him, she declined to offer an alternative and instead said everything was sold, even though that appears not to be the case.

According to the OP, Bonnie didn't play straight with him, and so he reported that to the community.

It's obvious from the posts that for those not lucky enough to personally know Bonnie, she is a long-time straight-up, all-around good person, and for whatever reasons, she got sideways with someone who is also respected in his own country and used to doing business straight up, especially over large distances.

As for the guy who says he got what he deserved, best of luck to you on your next trip to Greece or wherever you don't speak the language like a native and see how everything goes. Methinks you'll end up getting exactly what you deserve.

B|
SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.)

"The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

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I stop here guys,

If Robin said that Bonnie is a nice person that is enough for me.
I am really sorry through that my friend will not make even one jump until Octomber, hoping that we have enough money until then to buy a new Cypres.

Thanks also to Liketojump and other persons who tryied to explain to the rest of people that there is absolutely no risk for the seller, in a transaction via WU (or any money order) even this was not the case here.

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To all: Thanks for backing me up. I appreciate the support.

To Lok: I'm sorry I could not accommodate you this time around. I posted 28 used cypres for sale, and received over 150 responses.

My words were few because there are a limited number of hours in a day. But I did respond to each and every inquiry.

All units sold withing 48 hours. They were first come, first serve. I took care to keep my emails in queue for fairness sake.

The last three remained in the classifieds because I was waiting for a wire transfer payment to hit from England.

I hope you'll take this information into consideration to further your understanding of the situation. I do my very best each and every day to take care of every one of my customers.

Perhaps our paths will cross one day, and you'll give me the opportunity to provide you with excellent customer service.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

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Robin,

By the time he inquired most units had sold, and I had sales pending on the rest. He is right. My answers were concise. As I said, I responded to over 150 emails. Not to mention that it was a very busy weekend.


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

All units have sold.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 14, 2010, at 2:37 AM, Efstratios Niarchakos wrote:

> No problem,
>
> Would you like another method of payment?
> I can pay you with wire bank transfer on Monday or otherwise please advice
>
> Many thanks
> Stratos
>
> > Subject: Cypres
> > From: [email protected]
> > Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 00:33:19 -0700
> > To: [email protected]
> >
> >
> > We do not accept Western Union.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

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I would just like to add my opinion on this...

- As I see it, the seller just did not want to sell to the OP (with all hassle connected with it). Especially that she had 3 times more orders already on these items. I see how it is easier to sell to someone in the US than to someone across on the other side of the world. And that is her right, of course.

- The "buyer" was pissed because of it, thus he is trashing her store here.

- 90% of you guys jumped in her defense, which is also expected because you have positive experiences. Why not.

Now, I would not judge who was more right, or not, but one had to admit that this seller did not do 100% customer service here and that OP has some right to be pissed.
The thing that strikes me the most is attitude of majority of posters. 90% of you behaved just like stone walls not getting what OP was saying, and you were repeating the same thing over and over to the point that it became ridiculous. WU is the very bad way of payment for BUYER. HE sends HIS money FIRST and the seller could just not send him anything. HE is risking here. You people just don`t want to listen and on pure mention of WU you yelled "SCAM!" WTF?

The second thing that I like to add is that IMO and based on my experience, legitimate buyers from this part of the world have a hard time doing business with US companies.

I "lost" couple of hundred euros (better said payed more) because poor customer service and non-action from one of the very well known seller for whom you all would put your hand into fire. I got the couple of hundred dollars worth of equipment from some other seller, but at much higher cost and much bigger hassle. I will not mention any names but I was very pissed because of the fact that it seemed that seller just did not want to do business with me. And in my book that is not good business attitude. I thought at least the people in US would know how to be a good capitalist.

Judging by the previous posts if I get any of the replies it is going to be like "you should buy in Europe", "you should open PayPal", "you should find another dealer". I get it, it`s the easiest reply for most of you that live in "Pink skydiving world of US" where all you need is just to have enough cash. Well, for the rest of us that live in shitty countries where you can not easily find another dealer, get to a turbine DZ or open up PayPal account, having enough cash (and wanting to part from it) simply seems not to be enough.
dudeist skydiver #42

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Nice job genius, try reading. She clearly states in her first post in this thread that the three remaining ads in the calssifieds were for the last three units, and she left the ads up because she was waiting on a wire transfer from the UK. Your 'guess' that she would rather just sell to the US is wrong.

For the record, I also sent an e-mail about these Cypres, and recieved a one line reply later that day. Two days later, I sent another e-mail, and they were sold. I didn't throw a shit fit, or trash the store, I just realized I vastly under-estimated the used Cypres market.

If you look at the AAD section of the classifieds, you'll see that used mid-life Cypres are very rare. Few of them make it to the classifieds becasue I think that everyone who has one for sale already knows 5 jumpers looking for a cheap AAD.

There is no US based conspiracy againt the the rest of the world where we try to keep the good gear for ourselves. The market is what it is. If you have the money available to buy what you want at the right time, you'll get what you want. I didn't offer payment immediately for one of the Cypres, and I lost out, not because I'm from Ohio, but becasue I was slow. I see that the first contact from the OP was on the 14th, while the ads went up at least two days prior. If the guy wants the gear so bad, and DZ.com is his best option, he should check the calssifieds more often.

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Nice job genius, try reading. She clearly states in her first post in this thread that the three remaining ads in the calssifieds were for the last three units, and she left the ads up because she was waiting on a wire transfer from the UK. Your 'guess' that she would rather just sell to the US is wrong.



Yes. That`s what she said. If she was waiting for the transfer that means that she SOLD IT already.

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For the record, I also sent an e-mail about these Cypres, and recieved a one line reply later that day. Two days later, I sent another e-mail, and they were sold. I didn't throw a shit fit, or trash the store, I just realized I vastly under-estimated the used Cypres market.

If you look at the AAD section of the classifieds, you'll see that used mid-life Cypres are very rare. Few of them make it to the classifieds becasue I think that everyone who has one for sale already knows 5 jumpers looking for a cheap AAD.



I don`t see how this is relevant to my post...

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There is no US based conspiracy againt the the rest of the world where we try to keep the good gear for ourselves.



I guess you are a bigger genius than me and didn`t want to comprehend what I was saying or maybe it`s language barrier... I was NOT speaking of US folks keeping the "good stuff" for themselves. I was thinking of some US folks not wanting to do business with people from here because it`s just too big of a hassle. And making your customers feeling like "second class" is not the way business should be done.

And thanks for calling me a genius.
dudeist skydiver #42

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If I own a business it is my decision who I do business with. It would be a pain in the ass to have to drive all over town to go pickup your money. I wouldn't do it. Or, I would charge the person for my time to do it. In which case we would be reding in a thread about how this terrible company charged someone extra for using Western Union.

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You said what I said.
For you (sometimes / usually) It`s pain in the ass to do business with people from overseas and then you just do not do it. But please just write "US customers only" like some of sellers do.
Seems like you have the luxury to do business like that - big local market.
But what If I told you that if our first deal goes OK, I`m going to order couple of thousand $$$ of your products because I`m dealer in this part of the world? And because you are good to do business with, I`m going to buy stuff from you on regular basis. And all you have to do is send me a bank account number and pro-forma invoice so I can make payment. No need for leaving the house, even not leaving your desk. Just fckn e-mail. And you just don`t do it?
dudeist skydiver #42

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