Should you be charged for making a saftey call, and not jumping?

[happythoughts 0]

A favorite moment for me - I was doing a 6-way and it looked like too much cloud cover for me.

I stepped aside and let a 4-way go out.
Just before the count, their inside-center yells, "Chicken!"

Nothing bad happened, nobody got hurt - but it was my
call and I decided to ride the plane down because it didn't look good.

The rest of the day, my buddies and I made a huge joke
out of it. "That's Mr. Chicken to you"
That is because we understand that it is better to not
jump outside your comfort zone 50 times, rather than
to regret one really bad choice for "the rest of your life".

So, stay on the plane sometimes and suck up the cost. It is a great deal cheaper than a $10,000 helicopter ride to the hospital after the poor decision.

[wayneflorida 0]

Quote

A favorite moment for me - I was doing a 6-way and it looked like too much cloud cover for me.

I stepped aside and let a 4-way go out.
Just before the count, their inside-center yells, "Chicken!"

Nothing bad happened, nobody got hurt - but it was my
call and I decided to ride the plane down because it didn't look good.

The rest of the day, my buddies and I made a huge joke
out of it. "That's Mr. Chicken to you"
That is because we understand that it is better to not
jump outside your comfort zone 50 times, rather than
to regret one really bad choice for "the rest of your life".

So, stay on the plane sometimes and suck up the cost. It is a great deal cheaper than a $10,000 helicopter ride to the hospital after the poor decision.

Well said Mr. Chicken.

[billvon 2,380]

Two stories from me:

First was a jump at Quincy. Got on jump run and there was a big cumulonimbus under us. Winsor was spotting.

"OK, we're not getting out, guys" he said to our 6-way.

"Hey! GREEN LIGHT! GET OUT!" comes a voice from the back - a tandem master with a student.

"We're not getting out" said Winsor.

"Look! I have over a thousand jumps and I say it's OK to get out!"

"Dude, we're NOT GETTING OUT!"

Finally said TM pushed his way past us with a lot of stepping on our feet and cursing at us. He exited.

The pilot turns around and says "so you guys want another pass?" (normally we never got a second pass at Quincy; too busy) We said yes. He took his time going around, took the south jump run, and by the time we exited the area was clear.

Saw the tandem student after we landed. His throat was red from the rain and he was soaking wet. I was tempted to track down the TM and ask him if he thought he made the right call.

================

Second was a sunset jump at Rantoul (actually after sunset.) It was going to be a flocking dive. I looked out the windows of the CASA and saw a pretty solid layer of clouds. But maybe it's clear beneath, I told myself.

On exit it worried me enough that I stopped to look (I was one of the last out.) Solid everywhere I looked, and it was getting dark. I didn't want to be flying a wingsuit in the dark above solid clouds, so I stayed in the plane.

They landed very far out.

[gemini 0]

Quote

They should charge you $15 for the ride down.

I hope no DZO's saw this!

Blue skies,

Jim

[airtwardo 6]

Two stories from me:


I've only ridden the plane down one time in 35 years, it was at an airshow demo in Oklahoma.

We were in a T-Bo that had taken off close to an hour prior to our jump slot, in that time a couple of Oklahoma thunderstorms had moved into the area, one was south and the other west of the airport.

Military flybys were scheduled so we had a particular area we were to be orbiting to keep the airspace clear...we were close enough to the storms to be thrown around in a VERY sporty fashion.

There were lightning strikes below us and the pilot was rather white and obviously uncomfortable, at jump time, though it was raining on one end of the airport the team leader wanted to go...I was sitting back next to the cockpit when the driver asked me what 'I thought'...

I said I wasn't anywhere near drunk enough to be jumping in this shit, he said there's beer in the hangar, called the jump and headed for the barn.

20 minutes later there was a tornado spotted 10 miles away!



THAT jump happened about 3 months after the one in the link below, I'd like to think we learned something from the Atlanta jump, but in truth if the pilot hadn't called it and the team leader went...I'd probably have followed.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1612316#1612316


These dayz, I'm older and wiser!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Cutaway68 4]

A single story from me.

I was visiting some friends at a DZ in Nebraska when they had a Pac 750 stop by on the way through the area. The winds had been on the high side most of the day, but with a Pac there, everyone was enjoying the altitude.

What turned out to be the last load for the day was just about on jump run when someone on the ground radioed up saying that ground winds had just gusted to almost 40 MPH (they had been 20-25 MPH up to this point). The pilot decided not to let us jump and descended with all jumpers on board.

The actual landing was the most scared I have been in quite a while. The pilot decided to land into the wind on the "short runway" (more of a taxi-way really). The plane partly veered off the runway to the left (had the corn not been cut the wing would have caught it) and then the pilot was barely able to keep control bringing the plane around and through the pea pit (leaving a tire track), this time narrowly missing the wind sock tower.

We did not get our money back for the load.

Needless to say, in the future I will ask the pilot to allow me to take my chances under canopy. Pilots are not accustomed to landing jump planes fully loaded.

Just my .02

Don't Pull Low... Unless You ARE!!!
The pessimist says, "It can't get any worse than this." The optimist says, "Sure, it can."
Be fun, have safe.

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

There has been a lot of discussion about this around here and I've heard this discussed a lot on different DZs over the years, amongst jumpers and between jumpers and DZOs alike.

Mind you, there is an element of perspective here. What I mean by that is, you'll likely get a different perspective on this from someone with 1000s of jumps vs. someone with a few 100. I'm not saying someone with only a few 100 jumps is wrong, I'm just saying their perspective is different.

My 2 cents... after over 15 years and 3000+ skydives in the sport, I figure it like this. If I get on the plane, but decide not to jump, I still owe the DZO $$. If I get on the plane, and the DZO decides to call the plane down, I'd prefer not to be charged (it has been my experience that most DZOs don't in this case), however, if the DZO still wants the fee from me, fine, I'll pay it, call me a chump, but pissing over the cost of a jump ticket here and there just isn't worth it... if a DZO does call the plane down and still charge me for a jump ticket, I will however factor that into my decisions about whether or not to get on the plane at that DZ if conditions are sketchy in the future.


A different story... I remember one day years ago at Cal City late one afternoon when the conditions were getting sketchy (turbulent, winds 8 to 20, changing directions) and myself, Philly, Cary and the like had decided to hang it up for the day. The Otter was in the barn. I overhear a couple of 100 jump wonders trying to talk Van into taking the Cessna up for "just one more jump." In an untypical response, Van points at us and says something like, "See those guys over there drinking beer? They've all got 1000s of skydives and they don't want to go up in this... think about it!"... within 10 to 15 minutes it was blowing sand sideways at 30 to 40knots and anything not nailed down was headed for the next county... right about the time they'd have been getting out and under canopy. Perspective and knowing how to read the weather at your local DZ.

[skydiver604 0]

+100


At PST there is a few old timers that are really good indicators on jump and weather conditions, when they start looking for the beer light early to mid afternoon on days the weather is a little sketchy it's time to put the gear away and put the beer on ice.

"The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it." - Michelangelo

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Quote

Many DZ's will be pretty explicit about the payment being for the ride up, and not the jump in the waiver. I knew one DZ that did that mainly for tandems, such that if someone decided at 13,500 feet that they didn't want to skydive, the dz didn't lose everything (nor did the Video/Tandem etc. that spent time with them).

I was shooting video for one that didn't jump once and the DZO withheld payment to the TI and myself. It took about a week for his common sense to return and we finally got paid. I offered to give up my pay if he returned the passengers money but that didn't happen.

[allisongandy 0]

I guess thats what made me make the call that I did - I had no idea what the ground conditions were doing. On the ride up it seemed a little bumpy, but nothing too crazy but by the time we got to 12k, everyone in the plane was being thrown around pretty bad, nothing like any turbulence i'd ever seen before. My thought was that I didnt want to jump and realize that it was now this turbulent at 3k. Im happy with my decision, turns out it was ok, pretty bumpy, but not like it was at altitude, but the point was that I wasnt sure, so we opted not to jump.

[crustySCSA69 0]

Quote

A single story from me.

I was visiting some friends at a DZ in Nebraska when they had a Pac 750 stop by on the way through the area. The winds had been on the high side most of the day, but with a Pac there, everyone was enjoying the altitude.

What turned out to be the last load for the day was just about on jump run when someone on the ground radioed up saying that ground winds had just gusted to almost 40 MPH (they had been 20-25 MPH up to this point). The pilot decided not to let us jump and descended with all jumpers on board.

The actual landing was the most scared I have been in quite a while. The pilot decided to land into the wind on the "short runway" (more of a taxi-way really). The plane partly veered off the runway to the left (had the corn not been cut the wing would have caught it) and then the pilot was barely able to keep control bringing the plane around and through the pea pit (leaving a tire track), this time narrowly missing the wind sock tower.

We did not get our money back for the load.

Needless to say, in the future I will ask the pilot to allow me to take my chances under canopy. Pilots are not accustomed to landing jump planes fully loaded.

Just my .02

i have landed in 40kts +, you do that intentionally and you deserve all the mayhem about to unleash itself on you .... but we'll give you a well deserved "Him" at your memorial ..

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

Needless to say, in the future I will ask the pilot to allow me to take my chances under canopy. Pilots are not accustomed to landing jump planes fully loaded.

Spoken like a non-pilot.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Cutaway68 4]

Quote

Quote

Needless to say, in the future I will ask the pilot to allow me to take my chances under canopy. Pilots are not accustomed to landing jump planes fully loaded.

Spoken like a non-pilot.

No, I am not a pilot, although I have flown and landed an airplane. I am more of a control freak, and if I have to come down in an airplane (as a jumper), I am not in contrlol.

Any time I fly as a non jumper, commercial or for fun, landing scares the S*&t out of me.

Don't Pull Low... Unless You ARE!!!
The pessimist says, "It can't get any worse than this." The optimist says, "Sure, it can."
Be fun, have safe.

[tbrown 26]

It's really this simple - your jump is FREE. You're paying for the ride and any equipment, coaching, camera, whatever, you may have hired for your jump. But the jump itself is free.

At Perris, when conditions are marginal, they make an anouncement that you will be charged for whatever altitude the plane reaches, regardless of whether or not you jump. The DZO is paying for aircraft, the pilot, fuel, insurance, maintenance, and probably a bunch of other compliance issues with the Feds, state & local authorities. Why should he lose money for trying to let you jump ?

In this sport you really do pay your money and take your chances. It's not just a cute phrase we use over a couple beers.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[cstaffa 0]

once you get on the plane you just spent your jump ticket...

[jaffo 0]

I was at 1500 feet in a 182 one time when the engine stopped. I was next to the pilot in the "student" spot. The pilot looked at me and said
"GET OUT"!!

I yelled "door" and was gone with a hop and pop.

In this case, I did get a refund...that's the only time...lol

Take chances, just do it with all the information to make good decisions!!

Muff Brother# 2706 Dudeist Skydiver# 121.5

[theonlyski 3]

Quote

I was at 1500 feet in a 182 one time when the engine stopped. I was next to the pilot in the "student" spot. The pilot looked at me and said
"GET OUT"!!

I yelled "door" and was gone with a hop and pop.

In this case, I did get a refund...that's the only time...lol

Did you go for silver?

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[jaffo 0]

nah not at 1500...not with the Sabre 1 I had back then.

Now if I had to do it with the Spectre I'm jumping now, I might. Nice 800 ft openings...

Take chances, just do it with all the information to make good decisions!!

Muff Brother# 2706 Dudeist Skydiver# 121.5

[jumpwally 0]

thats about the 2nd dumbest thing i've ever heard,,,take my chances....

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[billvon 2,380]

>Any time I fly as a non jumper, commercial or for fun, landing scares the
>S*&t out of me.

Do takeoffs?

[Joellercoaster 6]

Below 1000ft or so... kinda, yeah.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?