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Bluebaby0108

Extended AFF's more the better or throw in towel

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> If one really enjoys the free fall and canopy time

Skydiving is for fun! We're full of fly savy people that only love their cool image. I pee on them from a 180 twist on landing as I flare with some lines I grab from over the twist. That's fun! They get pissed off when I do that and I find that verry funny because they've just been pissed on. Stay safe and remember:whenever you do things for the others you'll end up being disappointed!

Sings to himself: Ba pa ru ba ... da ba ... ru ba .. ba pa.
Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls!

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If you enjoy it, then keep at it. Relax, have fun, and the skills will come. If you an instructor won't pass you on an AFF level because of a couple skills and you are having a hard time learning those skills from that instructor, it may be worth making a jump or two with a different instructor. Different teaching styles frequently makes a difference.

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Both of those just take practice.

For turns in particular, stay relaxed and fully stop the first turn - pause - take a breath - then start the other turn. You don't need to get really aggressive with them during the training process, and its easier to learn how to start & stop them if you take it slow.

Good luck & happy flying!

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Obligatory disclaimer- I am reiterating my own similar personal experience and what I was told by my own instructors- always consult your OWN program instructors and your own instincts. I am a student also not an AFFI. Anyways lol--

I had to re-do levels 2 and 3, legitimately, not meeting the basic TLOs, but I also experienced what you may be describing, where I personally felt that on a few later levels, that I should re-do them, when my instructors said it was a decent/passing jump. So I can relate.

I wound up trusting my instructors- who told me that I was fine, that the point of AFF is to get the basics and safety down, and to polish up and learn more later over the progression after AFF. But it is important to discuss it and figure it out.

I was told, when I shared these concerns on the one or two later passing AFF jumps where I felt I should have done better, and this makes sense to me, that it will NOT likely feel completely comfortable or intuitive in the first 5-10-15-20 jumps or likely even more- and that is ok, you are not supposed to "graduate" AFF part of the student program as a fully competent skydiver feeling completely comfortable; you are just supposed to have a base to build on, so to speak, and have basic safety understanding and some experience.

Hearing that from my instructors helped me understand that it was ok to move onto the first hop n pop and coach jumps, and to not over-analyze or delay my progression due to my own perfectionism.

Maybe even look at your booklet or program and see what the TLOs are for AFF and each AFF jump- have you met these? That, along with talking to your instructors, may give you some baseline and peace of mind that you have met them.

An example for me- On the jump that was barrel roll/front flip/back flip, maybe level 6(?) in my program, I did all the flips but they weren't perfect, and I also paused 2-3 sec before diving out after my AFFI instead of leaving on count. Now *I* would have failed *me* lol- I did not do the exit right on count, and I did not do the flips perfectly, and I may have also landed off the mowed lz that jump, don't recall without logbook handy..

But- I looked at the TLOs, had a talk w/ my instructor, and realized that I DID meet the TLOs which helped me understand a bit more, what AFF's purpose is and limitations of it as well- it cannot make you perfect lol. And you have to learn to trust that they are the instructors for a reason, they have rationale behind those decisions (assuming they are telling you you have passed your AFF levels), you can always ask them but that should also be part of a thorough debrief. But, this is their expertise, so personally I felt that I needed to trust their assessment, as long as they heard and respected my questions or concerns and still felt that I passed the level and explained it to me.

In my (limited) experience/opinion, and common sense, an AFFI would not WANT a jumper to move on if they were not ready, they would want to keep everyone safe, and I realized I needed to trust their assessment and realized that I would not (could not!) have everything perfected in my AFF jump progression.

If you are really uncomfortable it is not at all unheard of to say you want to repeat a level, or I think a poster on here talked at one point about needing to do a tandem after one or two AFFs to re-establish her confidence in herself, her equipment, and her instructors, and that is ok too; whatever you need to do.

But if it is more along the line of you just don't feel totally comfortable or competent and are wondering, am I really ready to "graduate" and move onto more tasks and less supervision- I think many people probably feel that, and that is ok as long as you address it and come up with a plan you can feel comfortable with- with the caveat that too comfortable is complacent, and I don't think many student skydivers are completely comfortable, nor should we be lol. But your question is posted like you have passed each individual level and are now wondering, not re: one particular level, so I think that shows you are possibly just concerned in general with less supervision, more tasks, etc. and possibly over-analyzing your performance or worrying about minor things that will get "polished" further along the way.

Now I guess it might also matter if your program is USPA-ISP, if it has solo, solo/coach, or just coach, how comfortable you are with the post-AFF instruction and pre-A license program. I could see more qualms going from an instructor fully dedicated to your jump, to solos only, but if you are moving onto coach next, that seems reasonable- and if not, you could very easily request a coach for the next few jumps, and focus those on your few areas of concern, as a somewhat "intermediate" approach- i.e. not repeating AFF levels if not needed, but not moving into solos right away? (I think if you needed to repeat a level they would have told you right away, your post while giving little info implies you have done all the AFF levels?)

I knew I had coach jumps following AFF so that helped, though it is still a bit intimidating to give up that extensive assistance and supervision, it is part of becoming more independent and a better jumper and moving towards your goals in skydiving- assuming your goal as a student is gaining competence, safety, and licensing, as most of ours is :)
Have you talked this through with your instructors and gotten feedback yet??? That is key and helped me a lot. I guess my final thoughts would be:
1) Pinpoint whether the things you refer to are key safety issues, general anxiety about moving forward into more independence, and/or a few specific tasks that could be polished on non-AFF jumps.
(My guess is if the prior (safety issues) were doubts in anyone's mind your AFFIs would not be encouraging you to move forward either! So probably a combination of the second or third concerns, in my own experience..?)
2)Talk to, and trust, your instructors (but also don't overrule your instincts if it still feels wrong, come up with a plan together that you are comfortable with, to the extent that you are doing something that pushes your boundaries and a little discomfort may not be bad, you have to feel this out for yourself and with your AFFIs)

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

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One other thing to keep in mind too - sometimes the learning objectives are simply a way to verify other skills. I didn't do so great on my first batch of flips either, but my instructor did let me know that the real purpose was achieved - in this case, demonstrating the ability to get stable from an unusual attitude quickly.

It can take a lot of jumps to really nail certain skills. As long as you have the basics down, you get to keep jumping to develop those skills.

The critical freefall skills:
* Altitude awareness
** Pull on time
* Stability (especially at pull time)
* Emergency procedure - Quickly assess & do the right thing in an emergency.

The rest - even tracking - is less important.
(Edit: Thats not to say tracking is unimportant, by any means. Creating separation at deployment time is certainly important, however, it is something that you get to practice regularly as long as you pay attention to the critical freefall skills.)

Student programs, whether AFF, Static line, or anything else, are primarily there to teach survival skills and to prepare you to continue learning as a skydiver.

Everyone has to learn at some point:
http://www.starcrestawards.com/humor/humor_the_skydiver_that_was_too_good.html

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With all that ya said I actually got it my course requires 2 tandems and 7-8 affi with no required coach after I have 3 tandems 2 non jumps and I'm at jump 13 with one cutaway so I guess really is that deep down I'm alittle concerned of being released if I get into that spin and can't stop myself thx for all that input it gives me ideas of how to talk to DZ owner

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deep down I'm alittle concerned of being released if I get into that spin and can't stop myself



That's actually a fairly common occurrence for many AFF students. People training to become AFF instructors spend a lot of time practicing how to catch and re-stabilize students who go unstable on release dives. You really need to talk this out at length, in person, with your instructors; doing it online with a bunch of strangers is no substitute for that.

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With all that ya said I actually got it my course requires 2 tandems and 7-8 affi with no required coach after I have 3 tandems 2 non jumps and I'm at jump 13 with one cutaway so I guess really is that deep down I'm alittle concerned of being released if I get into that spin and can't stop myself thx for all that input it gives me ideas of how to talk to DZ owner



Yes, definitely talk with them especially if you won't have coach jumps in your program, and consider asking more experienced jumpers/someone who has a coach rating to accompany you and give some feedback if need be on future jumps or your first few solos if desired/available.

But I am glad you feel more confident in talking with them now, that is so important. As for the spin, I see why that would concern you, but just remember that no matter what your position, if you are altitude aware and pull at pull time and land safely, it's all good methinks. I would imagine if you relax (easier said than done) and play around with it, you will figure out how to counter it but listen to the more experienced around here and most importantly -Your Instructors- lol- as a coach told me the other day, though, they can't tell you, example, "put your right foot at a thirty degree angle to your left knee and extend your arm with 50% force" haha, you have to feel things out with your own body, some of it is hard to verbalize beyond the basic concepts, but they can give you the basics and you can get comfortable knowing that you may have to play around a little and it is not unsafe to take the time to do this and improve over time in your little problem areas!

A video might help too, if that is available, to see for yourself how your body might be aligned and what you are doing, maybe something minor you would not consider throwing you off a bit, causing this? Have heard something as simple as a student's altimeter hand not being level, or using more force with one's dominant hand, etc. things you wouldn't be aware of without intense awareness and/or observation. But ask your instructors- they know best and will be able to give feedback specific to you, although that fear of losing control of your body position in freefall is certainly understandable!

And one cutaway already, you should feel confident in that for sure, that you can handle your EPs!! I am still waiting for mine which is slightly nerve wracking if over-thought so I don't, just practice on occasion, run through in my head/visualize, touch all my handles in order, etc. and know that I have been trained to respond when the situation arises- but you should have an extra boost of confidence there! :)
Good luck and blue skies!! And you are welcome :)
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

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One other thing to keep in mind too - sometimes the learning objectives are simply a way to verify other skills. I didn't do so great on my first batch of flips either, but my instructor did let me know that the real purpose was achieved - in this case, demonstrating the ability to get stable from an unusual attitude quickly.

It can take a lot of jumps to really nail certain skills. As long as you have the basics down, you get to keep jumping to develop those skills.

The critical freefall skills:
* Altitude awareness
** Pull on time
* Stability (especially at pull time)
* Emergency procedure - Quickly assess & do the right thing in an emergency.

The rest - even tracking - is less important.
(Edit: Thats not to say tracking is unimportant, by any means. Creating separation at deployment time is certainly important, however, it is something that you get to practice regularly as long as you pay attention to the critical freefall skills.)

Student programs, whether AFF, Static line, or anything else, are primarily there to teach survival skills and to prepare you to continue learning as a skydiver.

Everyone has to learn at some point:
http://www.starcrestawards.com/humor/humor_the_skydiver_that_was_too_good.html



Good call, thanks for that. Yes, now that you mention it that makes sense, it doesn't matter that my flips weren't perfect, it matters that I could re-stabilize quickly and effectively following going a little too far past the 360 degrees! That helps put my example in perspective.

Lol on the link ;)
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

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deep down I'm alittle concerned of being released if I get into that spin and can't stop myself



That happened to me, actually. AFF 4 is when I spun. I went to do a 90 degree right turn and I started to spin out of control and I couldn't stop. My instructor grabbed my leg to stop me after I did four 360s :$. The trick I learned (and I carried this with me ever since) is to relax. It's not the easiest thing to do while falling towards the Earth at 120 mph... but when you're nervous, you tense up and make all sorts of unconscious body movements.
Don't forget to pull!

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