Liemberg 0 #26 July 20, 2005 QuoteCONFIDENCE! When people jump out of airplanes with two neatly packed parachutes strapped to their back and I'm the one overseeing the safety aspect of the operation I couldn't give a rats ass wether they are confident that they are not backsliding in freefall, not arching enough to stay in sync with the formation, don't have trouble staying on heading, are able to turn in place, are able to sit in the sky, etcetera. I want them to be confident that they can remember where they are in space and time (i.e. HOW FAR IS IT TO THE GROUND?) confident that they are able to open at least one parachute before they hit 'terra firma' and to be confident that they can land that parachute safely - without hurting themselves or any other participants. I must have missed the point where the learning of all these abilities was magically transfered to 'doing 10 minutes of tunnel time'.... Then again - when you hit the ground in a stable body position at least your crater will be symmetrical... I have seen at least two 'confident' wannabee skydivers enlist in a static-line course that thought this was going to be a walk in the park for them since they had made prior tandemjumps (and the tandemmaster told them afterwards they did extremly well In the door they decided that jumping on their own maybe was a different ballgame. I'm looking forward to 'confident free fall students' that are perfectly able to stay in the middle of a tunnel with their belly to earth... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #27 July 20, 2005 Quote. I love tunnel work, I've got almost 45 minutes in the Perris tunnel. I'm going back this weekend, and then taking my A license check dive. I'm working with coaches from the top teams in the world. I'm spoiled rotten, and I think I fell prey to my own experience versus what is generally available out there. Sorry for that. Just keep in mind that 15 minutes of coached time at Perris is $260 - that translates to about 5 real skydives with rental. More than 10 if you have your gear or have bought into Square 1s gear purchase programs. If money is a limiting factor, I'd rather be in the air. (though yes, I did trek 450 miles south to use the tunnel during AFF) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mailin 0 #28 July 20, 2005 No, I don't think it should be mandatory. Its a fantastic tool but should not be mandatory. I learned alot and enjoyed it. Most accidents seem to be canopy related and you can't practice that in the tunnel - yet your expected to fly your canopy on every skydive... ...its the only regret I have about doing mass amounts of tunnel time prior to skydiving JenArianna Frances Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joellercoaster 6 #29 July 20, 2005 Yup. As pointed out by many people here, tunnel time will fix a few things, but those aren't the only things you're trying to get sorted - which is why they won't let you jump solo after just a bunch of tunnel time. Pull Pull on time Pull stable - it's last for a reason I've never seen a wind tunnel up close, so the point was moot. But if you're one of the people who doesn't have body position problems because you listened to your instructor and practised until it hurt, then you'd be glad not to spend that tunnel money. If you're one of those people who has bad body position because freefall freaks you out and makes you tense, you won't know anyway until you get into the air. From my point of view, I'm glad I didn't try the tunnel first. I'll eventually try it when I'm doing some RW training with others, and probably not before. Since it's only a remedy for a few of the things that might give you trouble in AFF, why blow all that money before you actually have those problems? It's not *that* much cheaper than skydiving, and unless you're one of these people, doesn't sound like near as much fun - even if you're repeating a stage. Remember the fun!-- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JumpRu 14 #30 July 20, 2005 i think wind tunnel is a tool. This is where you can see how you actually fly and make adjustments. I don’t think that anyone has to go there before they get A license. Students have different priorities (alt awareness, canopy fly and etc). But once you get your A and start thinking about doing anything in a freefall then tunnel is the place to go because it will take you so much time and money to learn same freefall skills without it. For me tunnel is at least as much fun as a freefall if not more Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NeedToJump 0 #31 July 20, 2005 I don't think that wind tunnel training should be a manditory part of AFF, but I certainly recommend it to everyone. It is an invaluable tool in helping the freefall portion of skydive. If you don't have to worry as much about how to fly, you will be able to focus more on the other parts of the skydive. Also, doing well during the freefall portion tends to boost confidence and students generally do better under canopy as well. Wind tunnels are also incredibly fun and a discipline of their own. If you get the chance to go to a wind tunnel before, during, or after your AFF then I say do it! It's fun and will only help your flying if you go into with an open mind ready to learn. Don't expect it to be the same as skydiving, but expect to have a good time QuoteI think it is a little silly when people spend hundreds upon hundeds of dollars to travel across the country and then think they need to do an hour of tunnel just to pass aff. The money is better spent on a few extra aff or coach jumps and decent gear that won't kill you IMHO. It all depends on the individual's goals. For a lot of people, it it significantly less expensive to travel to a wind tunnel and get some tunnel time than to repeat AFF levels several times. As far as "coached jumps" go, the payoff of the tunnel is huge. To make a coached skydive (1 minute of coached freefall time) you have to pay your slot, the coach's slot and usually a fee for the coach. In a wind tunnel, the cost per minute of getting coached flight time is significantly less, but you can spend your money much more easily. It all depends on what your personal goals are. Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #32 July 20, 2005 QuoteIn a wind tunnel, the cost per minute of getting coached flight time is significantly less ....if you're within driving distance of a tunnel. If you're not, better factor in the cost of airfare and a motel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Devious 0 #33 July 20, 2005 I didn't use a wind tunnel and like others still learned. It can be a great aid in learning but from what i understand that it can create some problems later sometimes. some people don't wear their rig in the wind tunnel. Anybody who has ever skydived knows that a rig can change your body position slightly. and with skydiving it doesn't take much variation in body position to have a big effect. -------------------------------------------------- May the skys be blue, but never your balls!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NeedToJump 0 #34 July 21, 2005 QuoteQuoteIn a wind tunnel, the cost per minute of getting coached flight time is significantly less ....if you're within driving distance of a tunnel. If you're not, better factor in the cost of airfare and a motel. It all depends on what you are looking to do. If a coached jump costs $60 ($20 for your slot, $20 for the coach's slot, $20 for the coach) and you want to do 20 coached jumps that works out to $1200. We'll say the coach cuts you a deal since you're doing 20 jumps and the whole thing cost $1000. 20 minutes of tunnel time (at SVO): $210 Let's estimate high for everything else: coaching for the 20 minutes: $100 Flights $400 round trip (you can find MUCH cheaper flights within the US to Orlando, but as I said, I'll estimate on the high side here) Hotel: $50 / night for 2 nights (motel 6 right across the street from SVO is $45 / night): $100 That comes out to $810 20 coached jump: $1000 20 minutes coached tunnel time with (very expensive) flights and hotel: $810 With that savings of $190 you could almost buy yourself another 20 minutes and double the amount of coached time you would be getting. As I said, it all depends on your personal goals.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jigneshsoni 0 #35 July 21, 2005 Thanks a lot everybody for your valuable suggestions and opinions. Considering all the opinions I would like to share what I think. It seems to me that the tunnel time is really not expensive and everbody and anybody into the sport should do it. I am sure it will help in some or the other way. But there is a huge factor of other expenses involved to do a tunnel time when it is not at a drivable close distance. You would end up spending air tickets and motel cost. This would add up all and make the tunnel time evry expensive. My intention for tunnel time was only if I needed it to perform better in AFF. I believe that I have not done many AFF jumps yet to conclude that I would absolutely need tunnel time. So for now I think I would make a few more jumps and try to evaluate myself with the help of my great instrcutor and see how it goes bebfore I even think of tunnel time. I will be doing my AFF level 2 and actually my 3rd solo jump this weekend. Will update you guys. Thanks a lot for all the valuable opinions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites aftermid 0 #36 July 21, 2005 skydive without tunnel time to learning to drive in a stick shift car ----------------------------------------------------------- I learned to drive on a stick shift, because my first car was going to be a stick shift; therefore, I better already know how to drive a stick. Nothing worse than when you're way too drunk to drive and the only half sober person can't drive a stick. I'm a 1000 miles from a tunnel and can't wait to get in one eventually. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jill_UK 0 #37 July 21, 2005 I didnt even consider using a wind tunnel during AFF but there weren't any at the time in the UK and I trained in Spain where there aren't any either... it's definitely not mandatory, but then again I haven't been in one yet so i wouldnt know ;) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #38 July 21, 2005 Mandatory, schmandatory! The last thing we need is more regulations! Wind tunnels are valuable training aids. If there was a tunnel near Vancouver, I would insist on students doing a few minutes in the tunnel before their first freefall, similar to the US Army Military Freefall training syllabus. I would much rather solve basic stability and pull issues in the low stress environment of a tunnel, than in the high stress environment of freefall. Once a student has demonstrated basic stability and deployment skills, we could progress to glancing at a clock altimeter, etc. After practicing all the "parts" in the tunnel, we could put it all together on a real skydive. But since no one has raised the millions of dollars to build a tunnel near Vancouver, we will just plod along with old-school PFF. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #39 July 21, 2005 Quote 20 coached jump: $1000 20 minutes coached tunnel time with (very expensive) flights and hotel: $810 With that savings of $190 you could almost buy yourself another 20 minutes and double the amount of coached time you would be getting. Save that the tunnel coach can't help you on your exits, or your tracking (very well) or your canopy skills. And in that 20 minute session (perhaps 10x2), you have 2-3 minutes each debrief in a noisy environment, instead of 20 minutes. I've done 3 15-min sessions (well, tired by about 13) and have gained a bit in each. But I'd get a lot more out of 20 jumps with a coach. The 18 jumps I've done at Elsinore in their free Excel program has remarkably improved my RW, and much of the time there I'm not even doing the jump with a coach. I will go back to the tunnel to practice staying in close quarters with others. I'm too prone to staying about 3 ft out. I think it's very well suited for that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NeedToJump 0 #40 July 22, 2005 QuoteSave that the tunnel coach can't help you on your exits, or your tracking (very well) or your canopy skills. It definitely can help with exits and tracking, but not really canopy. You can launch 2-ways into the tunnel through the door and launch 4-ways off the net. This helps with the timing factor with exits. You can also do a lot that will help your tracking - tracking against a wall/instructor, having someone hold on to you, put your feet in the door, etc. It does not simulate exits or tracking exactly, but it definitely helps. It all depends of what you are looking to get out of it and how creative you are. QuoteI've done 3 15-min sessions (well, tired by about 13) and have gained a bit in each. But I'd get a lot more out of 20 jumps with a coach. Again, it all depends on what you are doing. If you want to work on diving to a formation then I'd definitely say to do the jumps. If you want to work on center point turns I'd recommend tunnel. It depends on your goals and on the person - everyone is different. Basically, my view is that the tunnel won't hurt anyone except if they go in with a big ego. If you go in with an open mind wanting to have fun, you will learn a lot. Flying in wind tunnels is definitely expensive, but depending on your goals it can be less expensive. You can just go through the money much faster. I've done a ton of 4-way in the tunnel which is extremely cost effective. Doing 30 minutes of coached 4-way comes out to about $100 per person. For $100 at a great rate, we could do maybe 6 or 7 jumps...Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #41 July 22, 2005 QuoteNary "Nay-Sayer's" can not argue the one thing that "DOES" come from tunnel time whether it's 1 minute or 1 hour...... CONFIDENCE! Argue that Ye Lords of Negativity! OK, the tunnel does not help with the number one killer of jumpers in our sport. Canopy control. It does not help with deployments, or malfunctions. It is a good tool, but you don't need it. And it can bread the biggest number one killer off all in this sport...OVER CONFIDENCE. I know quite a few people that can fly well in freefall due to tunnels , but fly a canopy like shit. My old teammate was a great tunnel flyer, WAY better than me....He is dead now."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #42 July 22, 2005 Quote20 coached jump: $1000 20 minutes coached tunnel time with (very expensive) flights and hotel: $810 With that savings of $190 you could almost buy yourself another 20 minutes and double the amount of coached time you would be getting. As I said, it all depends on your personal goals. OK, but with the 20 jumps you get 20 canopy flights, 20 aircraft rides, 20 deployments....ect. Like you said it depends on what people want, and I think tunnel can be a very good tool.... But if you want to learn to skydive, skydive. If a tunnel is handy, or you have some problems, a tunnel is a good idea. But it is not needed for most people. If I had my dream program set up...It owuld involve 10-15 min of tunnel...But thats a dream and not practical for everyone."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,384 #43 July 22, 2005 >You can launch 2-ways into the tunnel through the door and launch >4-ways off the net. This helps with the timing factor with exits. I would never try to train an AFF student to launch either way. Training for door launches will cause a head-down exit (relative wind isn't going the same way) and launching off the net is just, well, useless. That doesn't happen in the air. >Basically, my view is that the tunnel won't hurt anyone except >if they go in with a big ego. If you go in with an open mind wanting >to have fun, you will learn a lot. I agree here. It is a good way to learn stability, basic RW body position, turns etc. The issue I see is that that is about 10% of what you have to know to skydive safely. It takes 10 minutes to train a tandem or a tunnel student. It takes four hours, absolute minimum, to train a static line student. There's a reason there is a big difference there. The tunnel can help with that small part of skydiving (stability, turns) but I would never recommend it as a replacement for part of AFF. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NeedToJump 0 #44 July 22, 2005 QuoteI would never try to train an AFF student to launch either way. Training for door launches will cause a head-down exit (relative wind isn't going the same way) and launching off the net is just, well, useless. That doesn't happen in the air. I would never have an AFF student this either. We've used the 4-way off the net stuff for 4-way - you get used to all going from not flying to flying at the same time in a formation. It's definitely no where near the same as exiting a plane, but it does help. Definitely a more advanced thing to do in the tunnel. QuoteThe tunnel can help with that small part of skydiving (stability, turns) but I would never recommend it as a replacement for part of AFF. I agree with that completely. I think it makes a great addition to AFF, but should by no means replace any of it.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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NeedToJump 0 #31 July 20, 2005 I don't think that wind tunnel training should be a manditory part of AFF, but I certainly recommend it to everyone. It is an invaluable tool in helping the freefall portion of skydive. If you don't have to worry as much about how to fly, you will be able to focus more on the other parts of the skydive. Also, doing well during the freefall portion tends to boost confidence and students generally do better under canopy as well. Wind tunnels are also incredibly fun and a discipline of their own. If you get the chance to go to a wind tunnel before, during, or after your AFF then I say do it! It's fun and will only help your flying if you go into with an open mind ready to learn. Don't expect it to be the same as skydiving, but expect to have a good time QuoteI think it is a little silly when people spend hundreds upon hundeds of dollars to travel across the country and then think they need to do an hour of tunnel just to pass aff. The money is better spent on a few extra aff or coach jumps and decent gear that won't kill you IMHO. It all depends on the individual's goals. For a lot of people, it it significantly less expensive to travel to a wind tunnel and get some tunnel time than to repeat AFF levels several times. As far as "coached jumps" go, the payoff of the tunnel is huge. To make a coached skydive (1 minute of coached freefall time) you have to pay your slot, the coach's slot and usually a fee for the coach. In a wind tunnel, the cost per minute of getting coached flight time is significantly less, but you can spend your money much more easily. It all depends on what your personal goals are. Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #32 July 20, 2005 QuoteIn a wind tunnel, the cost per minute of getting coached flight time is significantly less ....if you're within driving distance of a tunnel. If you're not, better factor in the cost of airfare and a motel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Devious 0 #33 July 20, 2005 I didn't use a wind tunnel and like others still learned. It can be a great aid in learning but from what i understand that it can create some problems later sometimes. some people don't wear their rig in the wind tunnel. Anybody who has ever skydived knows that a rig can change your body position slightly. and with skydiving it doesn't take much variation in body position to have a big effect. -------------------------------------------------- May the skys be blue, but never your balls!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #34 July 21, 2005 QuoteQuoteIn a wind tunnel, the cost per minute of getting coached flight time is significantly less ....if you're within driving distance of a tunnel. If you're not, better factor in the cost of airfare and a motel. It all depends on what you are looking to do. If a coached jump costs $60 ($20 for your slot, $20 for the coach's slot, $20 for the coach) and you want to do 20 coached jumps that works out to $1200. We'll say the coach cuts you a deal since you're doing 20 jumps and the whole thing cost $1000. 20 minutes of tunnel time (at SVO): $210 Let's estimate high for everything else: coaching for the 20 minutes: $100 Flights $400 round trip (you can find MUCH cheaper flights within the US to Orlando, but as I said, I'll estimate on the high side here) Hotel: $50 / night for 2 nights (motel 6 right across the street from SVO is $45 / night): $100 That comes out to $810 20 coached jump: $1000 20 minutes coached tunnel time with (very expensive) flights and hotel: $810 With that savings of $190 you could almost buy yourself another 20 minutes and double the amount of coached time you would be getting. As I said, it all depends on your personal goals.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jigneshsoni 0 #35 July 21, 2005 Thanks a lot everybody for your valuable suggestions and opinions. Considering all the opinions I would like to share what I think. It seems to me that the tunnel time is really not expensive and everbody and anybody into the sport should do it. I am sure it will help in some or the other way. But there is a huge factor of other expenses involved to do a tunnel time when it is not at a drivable close distance. You would end up spending air tickets and motel cost. This would add up all and make the tunnel time evry expensive. My intention for tunnel time was only if I needed it to perform better in AFF. I believe that I have not done many AFF jumps yet to conclude that I would absolutely need tunnel time. So for now I think I would make a few more jumps and try to evaluate myself with the help of my great instrcutor and see how it goes bebfore I even think of tunnel time. I will be doing my AFF level 2 and actually my 3rd solo jump this weekend. Will update you guys. Thanks a lot for all the valuable opinions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aftermid 0 #36 July 21, 2005 skydive without tunnel time to learning to drive in a stick shift car ----------------------------------------------------------- I learned to drive on a stick shift, because my first car was going to be a stick shift; therefore, I better already know how to drive a stick. Nothing worse than when you're way too drunk to drive and the only half sober person can't drive a stick. I'm a 1000 miles from a tunnel and can't wait to get in one eventually. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jill_UK 0 #37 July 21, 2005 I didnt even consider using a wind tunnel during AFF but there weren't any at the time in the UK and I trained in Spain where there aren't any either... it's definitely not mandatory, but then again I haven't been in one yet so i wouldnt know ;) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #38 July 21, 2005 Mandatory, schmandatory! The last thing we need is more regulations! Wind tunnels are valuable training aids. If there was a tunnel near Vancouver, I would insist on students doing a few minutes in the tunnel before their first freefall, similar to the US Army Military Freefall training syllabus. I would much rather solve basic stability and pull issues in the low stress environment of a tunnel, than in the high stress environment of freefall. Once a student has demonstrated basic stability and deployment skills, we could progress to glancing at a clock altimeter, etc. After practicing all the "parts" in the tunnel, we could put it all together on a real skydive. But since no one has raised the millions of dollars to build a tunnel near Vancouver, we will just plod along with old-school PFF. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #39 July 21, 2005 Quote 20 coached jump: $1000 20 minutes coached tunnel time with (very expensive) flights and hotel: $810 With that savings of $190 you could almost buy yourself another 20 minutes and double the amount of coached time you would be getting. Save that the tunnel coach can't help you on your exits, or your tracking (very well) or your canopy skills. And in that 20 minute session (perhaps 10x2), you have 2-3 minutes each debrief in a noisy environment, instead of 20 minutes. I've done 3 15-min sessions (well, tired by about 13) and have gained a bit in each. But I'd get a lot more out of 20 jumps with a coach. The 18 jumps I've done at Elsinore in their free Excel program has remarkably improved my RW, and much of the time there I'm not even doing the jump with a coach. I will go back to the tunnel to practice staying in close quarters with others. I'm too prone to staying about 3 ft out. I think it's very well suited for that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #40 July 22, 2005 QuoteSave that the tunnel coach can't help you on your exits, or your tracking (very well) or your canopy skills. It definitely can help with exits and tracking, but not really canopy. You can launch 2-ways into the tunnel through the door and launch 4-ways off the net. This helps with the timing factor with exits. You can also do a lot that will help your tracking - tracking against a wall/instructor, having someone hold on to you, put your feet in the door, etc. It does not simulate exits or tracking exactly, but it definitely helps. It all depends of what you are looking to get out of it and how creative you are. QuoteI've done 3 15-min sessions (well, tired by about 13) and have gained a bit in each. But I'd get a lot more out of 20 jumps with a coach. Again, it all depends on what you are doing. If you want to work on diving to a formation then I'd definitely say to do the jumps. If you want to work on center point turns I'd recommend tunnel. It depends on your goals and on the person - everyone is different. Basically, my view is that the tunnel won't hurt anyone except if they go in with a big ego. If you go in with an open mind wanting to have fun, you will learn a lot. Flying in wind tunnels is definitely expensive, but depending on your goals it can be less expensive. You can just go through the money much faster. I've done a ton of 4-way in the tunnel which is extremely cost effective. Doing 30 minutes of coached 4-way comes out to about $100 per person. For $100 at a great rate, we could do maybe 6 or 7 jumps...Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #41 July 22, 2005 QuoteNary "Nay-Sayer's" can not argue the one thing that "DOES" come from tunnel time whether it's 1 minute or 1 hour...... CONFIDENCE! Argue that Ye Lords of Negativity! OK, the tunnel does not help with the number one killer of jumpers in our sport. Canopy control. It does not help with deployments, or malfunctions. It is a good tool, but you don't need it. And it can bread the biggest number one killer off all in this sport...OVER CONFIDENCE. I know quite a few people that can fly well in freefall due to tunnels , but fly a canopy like shit. My old teammate was a great tunnel flyer, WAY better than me....He is dead now."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #42 July 22, 2005 Quote20 coached jump: $1000 20 minutes coached tunnel time with (very expensive) flights and hotel: $810 With that savings of $190 you could almost buy yourself another 20 minutes and double the amount of coached time you would be getting. As I said, it all depends on your personal goals. OK, but with the 20 jumps you get 20 canopy flights, 20 aircraft rides, 20 deployments....ect. Like you said it depends on what people want, and I think tunnel can be a very good tool.... But if you want to learn to skydive, skydive. If a tunnel is handy, or you have some problems, a tunnel is a good idea. But it is not needed for most people. If I had my dream program set up...It owuld involve 10-15 min of tunnel...But thats a dream and not practical for everyone."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,384 #43 July 22, 2005 >You can launch 2-ways into the tunnel through the door and launch >4-ways off the net. This helps with the timing factor with exits. I would never try to train an AFF student to launch either way. Training for door launches will cause a head-down exit (relative wind isn't going the same way) and launching off the net is just, well, useless. That doesn't happen in the air. >Basically, my view is that the tunnel won't hurt anyone except >if they go in with a big ego. If you go in with an open mind wanting >to have fun, you will learn a lot. I agree here. It is a good way to learn stability, basic RW body position, turns etc. The issue I see is that that is about 10% of what you have to know to skydive safely. It takes 10 minutes to train a tandem or a tunnel student. It takes four hours, absolute minimum, to train a static line student. There's a reason there is a big difference there. The tunnel can help with that small part of skydiving (stability, turns) but I would never recommend it as a replacement for part of AFF. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #44 July 22, 2005 QuoteI would never try to train an AFF student to launch either way. Training for door launches will cause a head-down exit (relative wind isn't going the same way) and launching off the net is just, well, useless. That doesn't happen in the air. I would never have an AFF student this either. We've used the 4-way off the net stuff for 4-way - you get used to all going from not flying to flying at the same time in a formation. It's definitely no where near the same as exiting a plane, but it does help. Definitely a more advanced thing to do in the tunnel. QuoteThe tunnel can help with that small part of skydiving (stability, turns) but I would never recommend it as a replacement for part of AFF. I agree with that completely. I think it makes a great addition to AFF, but should by no means replace any of it.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
