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shward

Jumping with small women

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Yesterday I was one part of the base in a four way formation. My partner and I, both about 6' 200lbs, exited and the other two jumpers were supposed to dive down and make a BFR to begin the series. The base was stable and the small woman, approx 5'3", 110lbs came in and tried to dock, but seemed to be pushed away every time that she would approach. Anyhow, the formation never came to life and we broke away and all landed safe. After we got down, on of the other guys on the load, an experienced instructor, told us that the larger guys needed to de-arch when a smaller person is trying to dock. It was busy and I wasn't able to ask any further questions, so anyone got any comments on why?
Life is short, eat more bacon, have more sex and jump anytime you can!!

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The fallrate needs to be reasonable. That is all that is important. Large people need to get a high drag jumpsuit that allow them to fall at a reasonable rate comfortably. Small people need a really tight low drag jumpsuit, and possibly some extra weight so they can fall at the same rate comfortably. It seems like about 115 -120 mph (SAS, as measured with a Protrack) is a reasonable speed to expect of recreational jumpers.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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Yesterday I was one part of the base in a four way formation. My partner and I, both about 6' 200lbs,



Is that the exit weight (you + gear)? Not that it really matters though.. the point is that you guys were heavier than she was. My exit weight is 220 lbs, which is typically higher than the guys I jump with. So, I have had to learn to fly flatter than I was used to when I first started. I got my fall rate down from 132 mph to about 120 mph.

I imagine that maybe she was arching hard while bringing her body in just to increase her fall rate to match the base. If she brought her arms out any to decrease her fall rate to match yours, she could have done some backslide. I can imagine that being a problem for small and lightweight jumpers.
Don't forget to pull!

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Small woman here... Exit weight of 120...


I can arch my ass off all day long, but as soon as I reach for a dock Im going to pop up. Yes, reaching can make up backslide a bit, and also it takes away from the forward drive necessary to break through the burble around your body... Find some competitive 4way people at your DZ and ask them about docking and keeping your arms in. That helped me a lot. A lot a lot.

And also, with the fall rate things, you have to meet in the middle, it makes it easier for her to come in if you slow down a bit. Think about it her perspective. The more you arch, the less relaxed youre going to be, which makes it difficult to come into a formation.

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And also, with the fall rate things, you have to meet in the middle,



Meeting in the middle is of course vital. Nobody can fly well if they're near either extreme of their speed range. There are ways to accomplish that goal of getting your comfortable speed to where it should be. Fast and slow fallers need to just do it so that we can all get along.

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Find some competitive 4way people at your DZ and ask them about docking and keeping your arms in. That helped me a lot. A lot a lot.



It is much better to be sure you have as fast a suit as possible and simply add weight. You can't count on keeping your arms in all the time. You will have a lot more fun if you're flying in the middle of your range.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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On a formation skydive, everyone needs to wear appropriate clothes/slowfallgear/weights to match the fallrate. This is part of formation skydiving, and is almost as important as flying skills. You learn it by trial and error, and you'll eventually land on something that you'll wear on most jumps, and then adjust if needed.

Sure, you can fly fun jumps with no weight or clothes adjustments, but by doing that you really harm your chances of success, or even of the jumps being fun at all.

I would say it's mainly the smaller person's problem, she needs to wear something more suitable so she can keep up with normal sized people. That means a weightbelt. Her natural fallrate is not going to be what is normal on 95% of the jumps she makes, most skydivers aren't her size. She can learn to compensate with body positions, but that way she'll only learn bad habits, such as the dreaded "Chicken wings". Everyone I've met who learned to fly underweighted has had to unlearn the bad habits afterwards.

De-arching while the light person is trying to dock will allow them to stretch out their hand to pick up a grip while at the same time stretching out their legs to fly in, so that way it makes sense. It would work great in a 2-way, but I'm not sure if it would be effective when you're gripped in something bigger.

You didn't say how big the formation was, but all formations with a big hole in the middle make fast bases. This would also make it harder for a very slow falling person to dock, but they are great for people dressed for or built for a more normal fallrate.

I think it's just one of the things that can happen on mixed groups of fun jumpers, I don't think you could have done anything differently to make it work once you were in the air.

It's also problematic to ask people to add weights directly, you can put them in a situation where they're suddenly afraid of how their canopies will land with that. People usually have to figure out if they need weights and how much themselves. I never tell anyone to add x amount of lead, but I might say that it looks to me like they're underweighted if it's really obvious that they are and it's a serious training jump.

:)
I'm one of those small women myself, 5'2", 116lb, I do all kinds of mixed group FS and bigway formations.

Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet.

I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you?

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If you were all at roughly the same experience level, the fall rates were almost certainly mismatched, and the smaller women didn't have the skills to fly and fall fast.

They might not be properly weighted. But yeah, falling together is a matter of everyone dressing for success, and everyone learning to fall and fly at different fall rates within their range.

Have someone experienced review your jumpsuits and their weights; if you're all deemed reasonably close, then this is a great opportunity to learn.

You guys might get to learn to fly a little flatter (i.e. not just de-arch for the dock), and they might get to learn to fly while falling a little faster. These are important skills for the long run.

Then you call them floatybutts, and they'll call you anvils, and you can jump together.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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Has anyone ever jumped with water for weight? Then release it shortly after opening to get around the issue of higher wing-loadings with weights?



Adding weight doesn't add that much to your wingloading if you are already at a low WL. I was loading 1:1 before my weightbelt. I now wear 16 lbs of lead and I am now loading at 1.1.

I'm not sure what could be said about adding lead at a high wingload. I assume if you are already loading high, I would ASSume are an experienced canopy pilot and the weight of a belt will be insignificant.
And for the record: the appropriate ranking of cool modes of transportation is jet pack, hover board, transporter, Batmobile, and THEN giant ant.
D.S. #8.8

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>Adding weight doesn't add that much to your wingloading if you are
>already at a low WL.

Agreed - but it does add weight that your joints must support if you really pile in.

Tight jumpsuits are a better idea. If you've gone as tight as you can, weight up high (i.e. a vest) can help get your arms down.

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Agreed - but it does add weight that your joints must support if you really pile in.



True. When I posted, I wasn't thinking of joint stress, just landing speed/canopy characteristics. But I DO know about joint stress....my 115 lb body doesn't feel good at the end of the day after packing about 36 extra pounds from my belt/rig!:D

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Tight jumpsuits are a better idea. If you've gone as tight as you can, weight up high (i.e. a vest) can help get your arms down.



Can you explain this 'arms down'? I was under the impression that a belt puts weight where a floatybutt needs it-on the hips. I thought a vest will add weight to your upper body, changing your body to a slightly 'head low' position, which makes one work harder to keep their upper torso up.

For the general discussion: I would love to get into competitive 4-way someday, and through a tight jumpsuit, the correct weight to find my 'sweet spot speed' with the other 3 jumpers as well as tunnel coaching with a couple of awesome RW coaches, I have started learning how to compensate with the rest of body to keep level while I dock. I am far from where I need/want to be, but range of motion drills in the tunnel have helped immensely.
And for the record: the appropriate ranking of cool modes of transportation is jet pack, hover board, transporter, Batmobile, and THEN giant ant.
D.S. #8.8

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I am getting quite good at Super Mantis, but damn, I dont think I can arch like that, I might have to schedule a chiropratic appt for that next Monday!:D

And for the record: the appropriate ranking of cool modes of transportation is jet pack, hover board, transporter, Batmobile, and THEN giant ant.
D.S. #8.8

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I'm sorry, I'm on the wrong thread. I thought this one was about "jumping a small woman" not "jumping with a small woman"

Sorry for the interuption, please return to the regularly scheduled program....:$

Take chances, just do it with all the information to make good decisions!!

Muff Brother# 2706 Dudeist Skydiver# 121.5

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You'll get different advice from different people regarding body positions:

The 4-way people will recommend mantis, it's a naturally faster position than box man, and it's also easier to turn, so it's great when you need to move around a lot, like on a 4-way jump.

On bigger jumps, it's actually better to fly a box man. This might require more weights or a faster suit for the slow falling people, as it's slower naturally. It also doesn't turn so easily, which is an advantage on big jumps, which are 1-2 or 3 point skydives, it's more stable and helps you handle hard docks and less than perfect flying from the people around you better.

The 4-way people may say that mantis is the only "correct" flying position, but this is not true. There's more than one way of doing it, so don't knock good ol' box.

@Jaffo, yeah, it's completely possible for bigger guys to jump small women, as long as the dress code suggestions in this thread are followed.;)

Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet.

I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you?

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