Reserve Ride Today

[Cayce 0]

I was doing a solo FF jump at Elsinore this morning, working on sit stand transition skills, great jump until the opening. I got a minor slammer, nothing too bad but definitely not the norm. I look/reach up to stoe my slider and my chute goes into a hard spin. I forget the slider for the moment and go for the toggles to try to counter the spin. The left toggle comes off in my hand with no line attached, I realize that the steering line snapped upon opening and that’s the reason I’m in the spin. As I was now in a flat spin I didn’t bother looking for any more damage, I went to plan B.

I went for my EP’s, cut the main with the red pillow, didn’t feel the RSL take up the reserve which surprised me, but I kept on going with the EP’s and deployed the reserve with my yellow pillow. So I get my reserve open, spot my main and freebag, take some visual cues to location, and just barely make it back to the DZ to stand the landing and kept my handles.

I’ll strike the minor slammer up to my pack job and maybe a bad body position while deploying as it only hurt one thigh from the leg straps I must have been misaligned or I packed it in such a way that one side inflated before the other, if that’s possible.

But the really perplexing thing is that while we were inspecting the pillows/cables my rigger says that the RSL must have hung up because there is a quarter sized loop bent into the reserve cable about 6 inches from the pin. Now this follows my recollection because I didn’t have that nearly instant reserve deployment like I did last time when the RSL worked. And it felt hard to pull the reserve deployment pillow so I definitely pulled the pin manually.

So, my questions for those more knowledgeable about RSL’s is this: What does it mean to say that the RSL “must have hung up”? Does that mean that I may have had the RSL connected to my riser and main, trailing me after I cut the main? Was there a risk that I could have deployed my reserve into the main if it was still connected? I know both risers let go but I didn’t look over my shoulder to see if it was behind me, I was more concentrating on reserve deployment and keeping belly to the earth at the moment. I didn’t think to ask my rigger about it at the time as I think I was still coming down from the adrenaline. It was only on the ride back from the DZ that I put it all together and went, “Hay, wait a minute, what do you mean the RSL hung up, that’s not supposed to work that way…what does that mean anyway?” That’s just me talking to myself on the way home. Anyway, before I start answering myself, can anyone else shed any light on this one? Thanks.

[nate_1979 9]

Nice going dude Is that #2 for you?

Seeya Around.

As far as RSL.. I have never felt that the RSL has fired my reserve before I got the handle out in either of my two cutaways. I've had the handle out both times before feeling anything, one reason (and a very small reason) why I got rid of it

As far as the hang up, are you saying that because your ripcord was bent you dont think it fired? I threw my ripcord the first time, but on the second one there was definately a big bend / kink in my reserve cable that I had pulled out, where the RSL was attached to it...

I always figured that mabey the RSL bent the cable when it pulled it, and I have felt the resistance of the reserve pull, kind figured that was me pulling the bent / kinked cable through the steel channel the cable travels through.

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[sundevil777 93]

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my rigger says that the RSL must have hung up because there is a quarter sized loop bent into the reserve cable about 6 inches from the pin.

That is quite normal for the cable to be bent/kinked from the action of the RSL. Your rigger should know better.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Hooknswoop 19]

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That is quite normal for the cable to be bent/kinked from the action of the RSL. Your rigger should know better.

Absolutely. RSL's can torque the reserve cable badly. Not all designs do, but most. I have had to replace ripcords because they were just too damaged from the RSL. Look at how thr RSL works and you'll see how it damages the reserve ripcord cable.

Derek

[billvon 2,379]

>while we were inspecting the pillows/cables my rigger says that the
>RSL must have hung up because there is a quarter sized loop bent
> into the reserve cable about 6 inches from the pin.

This is normal. Often there is a sort of "corkscrew" kink in the reserve ripcord from the action of the RSL. It is not a safety problem.

>What does it mean to say that the RSL “must have hung up”?

No idea. Sounds like it functioned as intended.

>Does that mean that I may have had the RSL connected to my riser
>and main, trailing me after I cut the main?

No; given that you pulled the reserve (and presumably the cable cleared) it is likely there was no 'trailing main' issue as you describe. For the RSL to cause such a problem, either:

1. the reserve pin has to not clear; this would lead to a no-reserve deployment problem.

2. The RSL has to snag on a cable housing, which would be pretty evident at the gear inspection, and which would not likely clear at exactly the same moment you open your reserve.

3. The RSL has to snag on something else, which again wouldn't likely clear when you pull the reserve.

[Cayce 0]

Okay, this is starting to make more sense.
I thought it was odd that the rigger just passed over the kinked reserve cable like it was no big deal, and yes Bill, it did have a little bit of a corkscrew to it. He obviously did know better, I just hung up on it later as I was going over the sequences in my head on the way home.

As Nate said, I probably felt the resistance of the kinked reserve cable going through housing and thought it was my reserve pin.

It sounds like it did work like it was supposed to work and I probably continued on with my EP’s while the reserve was in deployment snivel.

Anyway, I’m not complaining, it obviously worked out well and I feel good for having executed my EP’s when needed and that I followed through weather it was needed or not.

[rushmc 18]

I had a bag lock last year. When I pulled the cutaway handle I did not get reserve until I pulled the other. I felt like I was towing the main. Being curious I asked, like you. billvon, Bill Booth and others replied, and here is the link to the tread.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1314410;search_string=rsl%20%20in%20tow;#1314410

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jurgencamps 0]

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...to try to counter the spin. The left toggle comes off in my hand with no line attached, I realize that the steering line snapped upon opening and that’s the reason I’m in the spin. As I was now in a flat spin I didn’t bother looking for any more damage, I went to plan B...

It is good to see that you have executed your EP very good, but I have one question. After the jump, when you analyzed the malfunction, have you never thought about releasing the right toggle to stop the spin?

Jurgen

PS I do not question the fact that you chose to cut away, but just something to think about.

[Cayce 0]

It seems like there’s always a lot to think about after a cut away… That’s one of the reasons I appreciate these forums as it spurs me see things from other people’s points of view and see things I may have overlooked or not focused on at the time.

I did release the right steering line at the same time I pulled the left toggle off to find it not connected to anything. It’s my habit, as I suspect it is with most people, to release both break stows simultaneously. So at that point, although I was still in an escalating flat spin, one break line was snapped and the other was unsowed and I had released it so the right toggle went back up to the guide ring.

I’ve been in flat spins with line twists on this main before and even kicking out of the twists didn’t bring me to normal flight. I had to counter with aggressive toggle input to stop the spin. I suppose in this case I could have gone to an aggressive left rear riser input see if that countered the spin. It could have bought me a few seconds to further evaluate the opening shock damage if it brought me to normal flight.

Honestly, that may have put me in a more frightening position of trying to negotiate a landing on rears, which I haven’t done, aside from practicing up high. Anyway, I went with my gut feeling at the time.

[jurgencamps 0]

Just asked this question, because when one toggle gets unstowed during the opening, some people do a cutaway without ever trying to release the other toggle.

[Freeflysmiley 2]

***I look/reach up to stoe my slider and my chute goes into a hard spin. I forget the slider for the moment and go for the toggles to try to counter the spin. The left toggle comes off in my hand with no line attached, I realize that the steering line snapped upon opening and that’s the reason I’m in the spin. ***

I'm pretty new to to the sport so may be wrong, but personally stoeing the slider is a convience and I'd always make sure I've got my toggles first and am happily in control of a good canopy before worrying about collapsing the slider.

Just a thought....

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Practise the 6 P's!
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[labrys 0]

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I'm pretty new to to the sport so may be wrong, but personally stoeing the slider is a convience and I'd always make sure I've got my toggles first and am happily in control of a good canopy before worrying about collapsing the slider.

Just my opinion... Collapsing the slider is not the same as stowing it. It's harder to stow the slider after the toggles are released and there's an increased risk of having a slider grommet snag on the top of a toggle after it's been removed from it's keeper. I prefer to stow the slider first and then release the toggles, alti permitting.

Owned by Remi #?

[Cayce 0]

Sorry, that's what I should have said. I was reaching up to collapse the slider. This is my normal pattern, after looking for traffic, as it gets me looking/reaching up first thing. Collapsing the slider gives a better view for chute integrity evaluation and it puts both of my hands extending to the rear risers for initial heading adjustments. Then I release both toggles for controllability checks. I don't stow the slider because I'm not into performance landings yet so I'm not worried about minimizing drag for a glide (assuming that's the extent of the reason to stow)

In this case, just after the irregular opening, and a groan of pain, I reached for the slider while looking up. It took the chute that long (2 seconds) to react to the snapped steering line, so as I reached it went into the initial spin. I bailed on the first step of collapsing the slider and went right to the toggles to counter the spin. That's when the toggle came off in my left hand and I un-stowed the right break as I pulled both.

I agree that it's a mistake to waist time dinking with the slider if you’re not in regular flight.

[Zoter 0]

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Just asked this question, because when one toggle gets unstowed during the opening, some people do a cutaway without ever trying to release the other toggle.

In the original post....the author descries the toggle as being snapped...ie broken.
Releasing the opposite togg;e from the keeper might help the situation.....but its still attached to the canopy and so there would still be an inbuilt turn...right?

Whats the call here.....would unstowing the opposite toggle be enough to 'slow' down the turn enough so that it could be countered with opposite rear riser or does accrued momentum in the spin just win the day in this situation ie make the chances of recovery with an opposite rear riser unlikely.....whaddya 'yall think?

[Cayce 0]

I had a similar thought along the lines of what Zoter mentions, and really, I’m just playing the “what if” game here… but here goes.

What if I cut the right steering line and went to rears to control the spin. Assuming that’s the extent of the damage it should be able to land on rear risers at that point. Or does having both steering lines gone destroy the ability for the chute to flare?