What's your hard deck?

[JohnMitchell 14]

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What drop zone I'm at has a lot to do with things such as pull altitude and hard deck decisions.

Funny you should say that. I consciously avoid factoring that into the decision. When it's time to go, it's time to go, and worry about the landing and finding the stuff later.

[mjosparky 3]

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What drop zone I'm at has a lot to do with things such as pull altitude and hard deck decisions.

Funny you should say that. I consciously avoid factoring that into the decision. When it's time to go, it's time to go, and worry about the landing and finding the stuff later.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mchamp 1]

If it's not controllable, and landable at 1,500ft it's gone for me as well.

Did a Skyhook demo chopped at 1,900 and was opened around 1,750ft

I have a Skyhook and use a Vigil II pro setting

Usually pull around 3.5k ish

For info regarding lift ticket prices all around the world check out
http://www.jumpticketprices.com/dropzones.asp

[kuai43 7]

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I would try to be open you 2,000 ft. When I deploy I look up and if I can land it I do. If I don’t think I can land it, it is history. I don’t do rigging in the air. In almost every case a malfunctioning square parachute will do nothing but get worse.

Sparky

Does this include linetwists? Admittedly, I've fought them somewhat low (1800') a couple times, but only when I saw they were coming out.
Jumping a Stiletto, I take this seriously.

Every fight is a food fight if you're a cannibal

Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess

[mjosparky 3]

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I've fought them somewhat low (1800') a couple times, but only when I saw they were coming out.

When you thought they were coming out. I feel this can lead to a mindset where you will give it just one more try, just one more try. This leads to many of the 2 out situations me have been seeing the last few years.
As I said, I make my decision quickly and never second guess it. When things turn to shit one of the best friends you have is altitude. Don’t give it up on a maybe. Jmo

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Airman1270 0]

Have gotten into the habit of pulling above 3000', but will on occasion take it down to 2500' before reaching for the handle. I can count on one hand how often I've been in freefall below 2000', and I always knew where I was.

No AAD or RSL. My new rig had an RSL but I disconnected it before chopping during my last malfunction & it drifted away to certain death in the DZ's lawn mower somewhere.

Line twists have never been an issue, as I jump larger mains. When using the old rig w/round reserve I pay more attention to spotting, as my home DZ is surrounded by trees w/few outs.

Cheers,
Jon S.

[ianmdrennan 2]

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When you thought they were coming out. I feel this can lead to a mindset where you will give it just one more try, just one more try.

Agreed. The one, and only time so far, I've used my 'hard deck' I was *almost there* in dealing with the mal. I remember the temptation was enormous to keep going since it was so close, but that exact mindset has killed far better skydivers than I.

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[zoobrothertom 5]

My hard deck is where my next 4-1000 count would put through 1 grand.

When I pitch above 2 grand, I start the old military 4-1000 count and repeat until I have an open parachute above me. After each 4-1000 count it's "check altitude!" When doing some in air rigging, I never stop counting and checking altitude until the main is fully open or I know my next 4-1000 count will put me under 1 grand. At that point, I execute emergency procedures and cut away for a reserve ride.

I have 10 malfunctins and 9 cutaways. The odd one was a BASE malfuction.

This method has saved my ass on several occasions. Too many people think they know how it "feels on opening," and think they'll automatically react correctly.

Think of it as a Budda Mantra (sp?). Pitch, 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000 Check Altitude! Repeat as needed.

Sorry . Count or die one day.

____________________________________
I'm back in the USA!!

[DaVincisEnvy 0]

As newbie, I stay pretty conservative with my pull altitude: no lower than 3500' (and unless I'm doing more than a 2-way, it's usually closer to 4000'). With an 800' snivel, that puts me comfortably in the saddle by 2700'. If I don't like what I see by 2000', it's gone.

I use an RSL and AAD (Cypres)

[Melissa126 0]

Newbie here too, I use an AAD and an RSL. Although I have not yet had to cut away, my hard deck is 2000. I pull at 4000. Reading this post though made me think, as I am still renting gear that has different types of aad's, I do not know when they fire. Some may be set up higher as they are student rigs, and some lower as they are normal rentals. It bothers me that I haven't thought of this before.

[jaffo 0]

One of my rigs has an RSL the other doesn't. I have a Cypres on both.

I toss by 3500 unless there is a traffic issue on bigger ways. I try to toss by 3000 even on bigger ways.

Every time I go below 3k without an open container, I consider myself below the hard deck.

Both of my cuts have been above 2k.

10 yrs ago 2100-2200 was common, but guess I as I've gotten older I'm more conservative.
Ryder

Take chances, just do it with all the information to make good decisions!!

Muff Brother# 2706 Dudeist Skydiver# 121.5

[ianmdrennan 2]

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Every time I go below 3k without an open container, I consider myself below the hard deck.

In my mind, there's a difference between a min pull altitude and a hard deck. A hard deck, IMO, is when you have no choice but to proceed with EP's.

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Amazon 7]

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What's your target altitude for being under a fully inflated main canopy or your target altitude for initiating emergency procedures, whichever is lower.

Include which of these you use on an average jump.

RSL?
MARD?
AAD?
Wingsuit?

This poll isn't for meant for tandem jumps or CReW issues.

Mine is 1800 using an RSL, AAD, and Wingsuit.

I usually dump at 2500 to 2000 on most jumps...... speed dives or RW etc. I dump higher when doing freefly/freeflail.

I know what my deployment is supposed to feel like and if it is feeling squirrly like my last chop... my mind seems to go into an accelerated WTF mode.

I have an RSL and a Cypres 2..... I know the RSL works ( I have seen the crinkle in the cable a couple times) but I will still always pull the handle anyway.... and the only way my Cypres is going to fire is if I am completely out of it from doing combat RW.
I keep my hard deck at 1500' still enough of a cushion to deal with a spinner or line twists etc.. without scaring my cypres too much.

[grimmie 173]

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What drop zone I'm at has a lot to do with things such as pull altitude and hard deck decisions.

Funny you should say that. I consciously avoid factoring that into the decision. When it's time to go, it's time to go, and worry about the landing and finding the stuff later.

If I'm in Belize and a mile or so out to sea my hard deck is 2,000. If I'm at Lost Prairie and look down and see lots of green trees, my hard deck might be 3,000. Looking down in freefall might just change your mind. Perris, Eloy, the midwest, lots of outs under a reserve. The "Ranch", Switzerland, etc...hmmmm. This question is sort of like what altitude to pull at during an emergency bail out. Sometimes our planned LZ is a bit different than our opening AGL. See that video from Switzerland.

[jaffo 0]

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Every time I go below 3k without an open container, I consider myself below the hard deck.

In my mind, there's a difference between a min pull altitude and a hard deck. A hard deck, IMO, is when you have no choice but to proceed with EP's.

Your are right. I guess in my mind the Hard deck is very jump specific. I did notice someone else say the same thing.

But you are right, my absolute hard deck to have a canopy or start EPs is 2k. It's the way I was taught and it's still in my head.

Thanks for pointing out the difference.

Take chances, just do it with all the information to make good decisions!!

Muff Brother# 2706 Dudeist Skydiver# 121.5

[mjosparky 3]

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as I am still renting gear that has different types of aad's, I do not know when they fire.

Find out when they fire before you jump them. Ask questions, what kind of main, what kind of reserve. Don’t get on the plane until you know what is on your back.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[hangdiver 1]

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Looking down in freefall might just change your mind.

Yep, grimmie is right.
Looking down first will definitely change my hard deck.

Jumping in N Cal you might find yourself over a bump of some kind 300'-1000'.

I like to start saving my own life at 3,000 AGL, not necessarily my main opening altitude but it's when I start twitching and will spend the rest of my life trying to decelerate if need be.
No RSL, no AAD, no MARD and no wingsuit...yet.



and yeah...I'm old school...

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[Andy9o8 0]

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Yeah but what about line twists? You won't fight em for more than a few seconds regardless?

If I'm vertical, maybe. If I'm horizontal, probably not.

[airtwardo 6]

I start reachin' about 2200'...unless it's a long spot.

I jump a big tanker of a 210 that has me consistently in the saddle by around 1800'.

~Yeah a bit low for some by today's standards...but I'm old, what's there to look forward to?!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[NickDG 23]

2.5 unless I'm in a crowd. Then I'll go down to 1500 feet looking for clean air . . . (no gizmo, of course!)

NickD

[skycamefalling 0]

My hard deck is 2K. I usually pull at 4k and in the saddle at about 3200. So far, no malfunctions where I had to chop as of yet. Had one close one where I started to think about it for a second. Had a hard opening and when I went to unstow the brakes, the right toggle was stuck and it literally took 2 hands and some force to unstow. I am still on the rental gear. It has an RSL and AAD (CYPRES).

Speedracer~I predict that Michael Jackson will rise from the dead.
And that a giant radioactive duck will emerge from the ocean and eat Baltimore.

[jaffo 0]

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~Yeah a bit low for some by today's standards...but I'm old, what's there to look forward to?!

That's funny right there.

Take chances, just do it with all the information to make good decisions!!

Muff Brother# 2706 Dudeist Skydiver# 121.5

[mhcook 0]

Hi, nice interesting post, thanks.

I'm still new, but I pull at 4000 and my hard deck is 2500.
I like the "number" for me, to take the thinking out of it.
If I think about it too long, i'm too low. I can definitely see myself fighting a Mal too low and my reserve coming out.

Those two numbers might drop lower when I get A LOT more jumps, for now, I'm happy.

Cypress 2
RSL

[JohnMitchell 14]

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I am still renting gear that has different types of aad's, I do not know when they fire. Some may be set up higher as they are student rigs, and some lower as they are normal rentals. It bothers me that I haven't thought of this before.

I believe Cypres and Vigil both fire around 850', student or experienced. The difference is the vertical speed required to fire them. The expert or pro setting fires in the 85 mph range, the student setting much slower. Ask your rigger and your gear rental counter for more info. BTW, if you ever see an AAD that says Tandem, they fire at about 2000'.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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My new rig had an RSL but I disconnected it before chopping during my last malfunction & it drifted away to certain death in the DZ's lawn mower somewhere.

Just curious as to why you would bother doing that prior to chopping. And, of course, the RSL or lack thereof had nothing to do with losing the main, right?